Troy council turns down higher density

[467riverfix]

This is Troy's response to everyone who likes the idea of higher density, more walkable downtowns, and less sprawl.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...est/100315100/

[MikeM]

Just had a co-worker move from Troy to suburban Cincinnati in Kentucky because he was tired of being blamed for all of Detroit's problems.

[dtowncitylover]

Just had a co-worker move from Troy to suburban Cincinnati in Kentucky because he was tired of being blamed for all of Detroit's problems.

1) That's a pretty poor excuse to move.

2) What does that have to do with this article?

If Troy doesn't want it, then they don't have to have it. Their fate was sealed decades ago when they put their marbles in the sprawl basket. They're not doing awful so if they feel they don't need this, then that's their right.

[MikeM]

Just an example of how Troy thinks.

[Bham1982]

Just had a co-worker move from Troy to suburban Cincinnati in Kentucky because he was tired of being blamed for all of Detroit's problems.

I seriously doubt this is true.

Re. the article, I don't blame the homeowners. Troy will never be urban, and no one moves to Troy expecting urbanity. The project was proposed for the Big Beaver corridor which is already overdeveloped and traffic-choked. And Troy schools are overcrowded.

[detroitbob]

Remembering when Troy turned down the IKEA store because they wanted the company to change the exterior colours from the Blue/Yellow trademark design to something subdued. A true Livonia mentality.

[dtowncitylover]

Remembering when Troy turned down the IKEA store because they wanted the company to change the exterior colours from the Blue/Yellow trademark design to something subdued. A true Livonia mentality.

But they had no problem with Children's Hospital...lol

[Scottathew]

This is on McClure drive, north of Big Beaver Road [[16 Mile). The development would be directly adjacent to the side of a residence, and across the street from the side of another [[newly built) residence.

Here is a picture of the border between the existing house and the new site:https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5637...7i13312!8i6656

The parking lot of the apartment building would be adjacent to the residential property to the north, not the building itself.

At this point on Big Beaver Road the city of Troy has been trying to build commercial density. On other points residential density has been built too.

Very nearby, on the other side of Big Beaver there is a seven story building.

I feel that the residents have legitimate concerns. I wouldn't want a five story apartment building built inside of my neighborhood over top of an existing family home.

If the building were to be built on Big Beaver Road, it would be a different story.

One of the reasons zoning exists is to give property owners an expectation of what they can build on a parcel, as well as what will happen to parcels around them.



Sources:
http://gis.troymi.gov/PlanningProjects/default.asp

[MikeM]

I seriously doubt this is true.

Oh, I'm sure other factors were at play like the condition of the infrastructure, taxes, etc. He grew up in Taylor, lived for awhile in New Orleans and Houston, moved back to the area in the mid-1980s. Lived behind Somerset on the north side. He said to me that he was sick of the racism and being blamed [[as an older, white suburbanite) for the region's problems. I took it at face value but when I see him next time, I'll ask him to explain more. Now that I think about it, he did grumble about Coleman Young but raved about how smooth the roads were down there.

[Jason]

Dear god next thing you know they'll be building sidewalks!!

These people are being disingenuous. When they look out their windows they see office parks. Their backyards abut big parking lots. When their windows are open at night they hear the buzz of Big Beaver. And when they look out their back windows at night they see the glow of parking lots. They bought houses right next to one of the state's biggest "downtowns".

[Bham1982]

Dear god next thing you know they'll be building sidewalks!!

These people are being disingenuous. When they look out their windows they see office parks. Their backyards abut big parking lots. When their windows are open at night they hear the buzz of Big Beaver. And when they look out their back windows at night they see the glow of parking lots. They bought houses right next to one of the state's biggest "downtowns".

Ridiculous. Big Beaver will never be a "downtown". It's typical suburban sprawl.

And Big Beaver was a minor two-lane road until 30 years ago. There were still some farm plots and horse trails nearby until the 80's. Many homeowners likely bought when the area was quiet and semi-rural [[the homes north of Big Beaver date to the 70's mostly).

Troy is desirable, in part, because residents are organized and govt. responsive. Neighbors don't want this abomination, and I don't blame them. I would fight this too.

And just because there are already office parks and other undesirable uses within eyeshot doesn't mean residents want even more junk harming their property values.

[Hermod]

I worked for the City of Troy in 1959 shortly after they incorporated from Troy Township. Most of the roads were two lane blacktop [[including Big Beaver). Some of the roads like Wattles Road [[17 Mile) were two lane gravel. City Hall was at Livernois and Wattles [[the current museum). The closest thing that Troy had to a downtown was on Rochester Road just north of Big Beaver and was a cluster of stores that was the settlement of "Big Beaver". The other section line intersections had at most a gas station or a general store.

[mwilbert]

It is entirely possible that Troy will never want higher-density development, and that's fine with me. But it might be a mistake to read rejection of a particular proposal as rejection of all proposals.

In the meantime, I expect that the less dense development in the region outside Detroit, the better for Detroit. Also fine with me.

[Wesley Mouch]

Just had a co-worker move from Troy to suburban Cincinnati in Kentucky because he was tired of being blamed for all of Detroit's problems.

We should all pay less attention to these 'stories'. That's all we get from media today. Heart-wrenching stories. Stories that support our POV. I'm just completely tired of stories. They're a bad way to set policy.

Troy and only Troy needs to decide what they want their city to be. I'd force higher-density on everyone, if I were ruler. But its not my decision. So long as Troy doesn't mind carrying their own costs of low-density development, and the residents don't mind the character, why do we all care?

So try makes a decision on Ikea based on exterior colors. Stupid. But no more stupid that form, color, and characters laws in historic neighborhoods that enforce someone's idea of the past.

[DTWflyer]

The biggest problem with this plan was that it was not on Big Beaver, that they were going to on a side street replacing homes on acre plus lots.

If it were directly on Big Beaver it might have worked.
I believe there was some half-brained idea of a 20 story condo building in the same general area in about the 2003 timeframe that was strongly opposed and would've probably been another albatros in the likes of Bloomfield Park had it been built.

There is another proposal in the works at Crooks & Big BEaver to repurpose some of the parking area and add in-fill http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...-apartments-in

That said, Troy has a lot of dated and functionally obsolete office parks that are straight out the 1980s.

[Jason]

I put downtown in quotation marks because it doesn't have the urbanism of a downtown but it still has the office, retail, multifamily residential, and civic functions of a downtown. It's a place where a lot of busy activity takes place and it's unreasonable to think that that activity will never touch them. And it *already* affects them in a way that if they genuinely cared about what they were talking about that they'd never have moved there in the first place.

This is the view from their backyards. https://goo.gl/maps/jBHzGHhdJoT2 You can't tell me that people who are so outraged by an apartment building would buy houses with that next door.

At the page that 48307 linked to you can find more renderings and site plans that show that the apartment building is crammed on the south end of the site and that there's a huge buffer between it and the houses. Also you can see in the rendering that the interiors of the apartments are loft themed, with fake structural brick and timber frames and exposed ducts which make me throw up so maybe there's some silver lining to this getting blocked.

[Scottathew]

This is the view from their backyards. https://goo.gl/maps/jBHzGHhdJoT2 You can't tell me that people who are so outraged by an apartment building would buy houses with that next door.

There is a difference between being able to see a 25 story building [[The Top of Troy Building) that is .6 mile away and having a five-story, 140 unit apartment building replace three single family home lots on your street.

These people bought in this neighborhood knowing what it was zoned. I couldn't imagine having a single family home next to me be turned into an apartment building.

From the perspective of a Rochester Hills resident, I don't mind density, but it should not be built within existing neighborhoods where it would be uncharacteristic.

Move this one parcel over and it's on Big Beaver, and then I'm fine with it.

People bought those homes knowing what the zoning was, just as the developer bought the three single family home properties knowing what the zoning was.

They can build three McMansions, still make a ton of profit, and call it a day.

[Bham1982]

Move this one parcel over and it's on Big Beaver, and then I'm fine with it.

People bought those homes knowing what the zoning was, just as the developer bought the three single family home properties knowing what the zoning was.

They can build three McMansions, still make a ton of profit, and call it a day.

This. If it were proposed for Big Beaver, there would be no issue. But this neighborhood has acre+ homes. No one buys in such a neighborhood expecting to have a large apartment building as neighbor.

I can see a downtown Birmingham midrise from my second floor. But that's very different from someone proposing a midrise directly on my street.

The developer can build some ugly McMansions and probably sell them for 600-700k each. Neighbors will be happy.

[1953]

This project seems perfectly appropriate to me -- a city looking to add density wants to add an apartment building adjacent to its business district. Someone will need to live next to higher density uses...

[hybridy]

are the the homes valued at 800k they mention?

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5632...8i6656!6m1!1e1

[Bham1982]

are the the homes valued at 800k they mention?

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5632...8i6656!6m1!1e1

I doubt it. Those would probably be 400k-500k homes, more or less, in that part of Troy.

[Scottathew]

I doubt it. Those would probably be 400k-500k homes, more or less, in that part of Troy.

Interestingly, the road that would end at the apartment building is "Sachin Way". Sachin Way is a new road that was created from 6 lots [[3 from Alpine, 3 from McClure).

So in the case of Sachin Way, six lots were turned into 16 homes.

In the case of the apartment, it would turn three lots on McClure into 140 units.

[Scottathew]

Here's a picture showing the sites that turned into 16 homes and the proposed sites for the 5-story apartment building.


Attachment 33145

[wolverine]

Troy's loss is another city's gain. Suburbs need density more than they realize. Not just a minuscule attempt at walkability, but to increase economic development. I'm convinced the forces of globalization, technology, and centralization of businesses create a dire future for Troy. The city relies on a 1980's-1990's model of offices and shopping. It's not a working model these days. Has that k-mart hq totally filed back up yet with jobs?

Increase residential density and jobs and retail will stay

[Bham1982]

I'm convinced the forces of globalization, technology, and centralization of businesses create a dire future for Troy.

The imagined future may be "dire" but the present sure isn't. Troy's property values are about as high as the entire city of Detroit. Taxes are very low. Incomes are high. Schools are as good as any in the state. Safety and public services are superb.

The city relies on a 1980's-1990's model of offices and shopping. It's not a working model these days. Has that k-mart hq totally filed back up yet with jobs?

Um, Troy has the dominant retail center between NYC and Chicago. I'd say the retail model is working just fine. Somerset has a waiting list of luxury retailers fighting to get space. The KMart site will be a massive expansion of Somerset.

Increase residential density and jobs and retail will stay

Sounds like armchair urban planners who don't understand the first thing about how cities work.

Residential density will increase [[or decrease) based on demographic trends, not based on whether or not the city builds an apartment building in sprawl. People don't have babies or pass away because of local zoning decisions.

I love how people think they're urban planning experts because they moved from Macomb Township to some transient hipster neighborhood in Detroit or Chicago, and after three whole years, they're ready to write a dissertation on urban economics.

I mean, when you're in the two worst performing cities in the entire U.S., you've learned everything there is to know, I guess.