Trust MDEQ? [Michigan Department of Environmental Quality]

**O3H** · April-10-17, 07:49 PM

Do you trust MDEQ to protect your family ? Simple Question.
Even on the weekends, at night, perhaps a 3 day Holiday weekend ?

They wait sometimes as long as 5 days to tell public about sewage overflows, into popular river waterways, like the Clinton River.

http://bit.ly/StinkyMDEQ

Wait till a big thunderstorm comes - Mark the Date and Time - then check the MDEQ webpage to notify the Public of sewage overflow.
http://www.deq.state.mi.us/csosso/

See for yourself how they repeatedly, consistently wait, delay, to tell the public of sewage overflow in the Clinton River - flowing into Lake St Clair. How many people made dock repairs, seawall repairs, without a clue any sewage had been released last weekend April 8, 9, 2017 ??? Anyone like pre-seasoned fish, before the hook and bobber ?

**Wesley Mouch** · April-11-17, 08:33 AM

Why? Are you suggesting they delay intentionally? If so, why do you believe they do this? Is there a political motivation, or is it simply that it takes time to know enough bout the overflow to notify?

**gumby** · April-11-17, 10:33 AM

As a Flint resident this is a simple answer for me. Hell no!

Originally Posted by O3H

Do you trust MDEQ to protect your family ? Simple Question.
Even on the weekends, at night, perhaps a 3 day Holiday weekend ?

They wait sometimes as long as 5 days to tell public about sewage overflows, into popular river waterways, like the Clinton River.

http://bit.ly/StinkyMDEQ

Wait till a big thunderstorm comes - Mark the Date and Time - then check the MDEQ webpage to notify the Public of sewage overflow.
http://www.deq.state.mi.us/csosso/

See for yourself how they repeatedly, consistently wait, delay, to tell the public of sewage overflow in the Clinton River - flowing into Lake St Clair. How many people made dock repairs, seawall repairs, without a clue any sewage had been released last weekend April 8, 9, 2017 ??? Anyone like pre-seasoned fish, before the hook and bobber ?

**O3H** · April-11-17, 06:59 PM

I'm saying the delay is outright intentional.
Been going on for many, many years, but public knows so little about it.
Everyone brainwashed the Clinton River is so wonderful, so pure, pristine.

– Facilities are required to notify the MDEQ within 24 hours
when a CSO or SSO discharge begins.
– After the discharge ends, the facility must submit a
complete report including the locations and volume of the discharge.
THE CATCH – Online reporting sources are quite a bit slower
http://www.michigan.gov/deq/0,1607,7-135-6132_6828—,00.html
CSO and SSO Discharge Information
It appears that human intervention takes place
i.e. – it isn’t automatically updated or reported.
http://www.deq.state.mi.us/csosso/
Reporting items in their entirety online
isn’t a priority for this organization
http://www.deq.state.mi.us/csosso/recent_events.asp

**MikeM** · April-11-17, 08:37 PM

Still, what is the purpose of the intentional delay? Seems like you're beating around the bush with the hope there's something in the bush.

**gazhekwe** · April-11-17, 09:15 PM

I do not trust them either. Where a corporate interest is concerned, they give no weight to residents' concerns.

**Scottathew** · April-12-17, 07:28 AM

When republican\conservative\corporate influences are exerted on agencies that are supposed to protect everyone, you cannot fully trust them.

Right now we have a republican administration in Lansing that has proven that corporate influences are more important. Right now the people who are running the state and country simply don't believe in science. They feel that religion [[specifically THEIR religion) is more important than fact-based science. They feel that money [[specifically THEIR money and the money of the rich) are more important than fact-based science. They have been making changes to the agencies that are supposed to protect us to reflect their views and priorities.

**Don K** · April-17-17, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by 48307

When republican\conservative\corporate influences are exerted on agencies that are supposed to protect everyone, you cannot fully trust them.

Right now we have a republican administration in Lansing that has proven that corporate influences are more important. Right now the people who are running the state and country simply don't believe in science. They feel that religion [[specifically THEIR religion) is more important than fact-based science. They feel that money [[specifically THEIR money and the money of the rich) are more important than fact-based science. They have been making changes to the agencies that are supposed to protect us to reflect their views and priorities.

Right. After six years of "running government like a business" and putting business 100% in charge of government, I don't trust MDEQ to protect my health. With a couple of years of Trump, Pence, and Pruitt in charge, I won't trust the federal EPA either. We'll all be at the mercy of those who would poison everyone to get a bump in quarterly earnings.

**Jimaz** · April-17-17, 01:40 PM

We're headed back to the days of —

Cuyahoga River Fire 1969 [[video)

The Burning River That Sparked a Revolution

**O3H** · April-17-17, 08:29 PM

Our very own Clinton River was on FIRE, right here in Michigan

https://redrundrain.wordpress.com/20...river-on-fire/

I'm not beating around the bush one tiny bit.
The economics of the game drive the function/operation of the MDEQ
I have little doubt the folks working there get frustrated at our judicial system

The consent judgments, on occasion, get amended a few times,
and sometimes the court issues other additional cleanup-related orders.

These agreements often take place in courts
– with little or no opportunity for public input.

MDEQ has to accept “”remediation plans”” that comply with state law.

The Natural Resources & Environmental Protection Act [[NREPA) of Michigan
has a little paragraph [[Part 201, Section 2a) that basically claims
— MDEQ is required to approve changes to legal agreements —

Sometimes a proposal lacks adequate monitoring planning
and/or contingency planning to deal with the spreading contamination
and there could be uncertainty about migration pathways.

**Don K** · April-18-17, 08:13 AM

It will be open season on the nation's air and water. But no problem as long as you can afford to use bottled water in your water heater for showers and carry around a private air supply. And honestly, if you can't afford that then you're a looter and a moocher, right?

**clubboss** · April-18-17, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by O3H

Do you trust MDEQ to protect your family ? Simple Question.

No, I wouldn't trust them to wash my car.

**MikeM** · April-18-17, 09:31 AM

I'm still unclear on who is delaying the reports: is the local entity slow to report totals to the state or is the state not releasing the figures to the public quickly enough?

And if we don't trust the government, why are we looking to the government to force solutions?

**Scottathew** · April-18-17, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by MikeM

And if we don't trust the government, why are we looking to the government to force solutions?

The government, if controlled by the right people, will protect the interests of the people.

If there is no governance, or if the government is controlled by the wrong people, then corporations win, pollute, destroy, etc... There is too much financial incentive to do what isn't good for the environment and all people.

Capitalism is a great thing, but it has its limits, and that is why we need laws and regulations.

**Wesley Mouch** · April-18-17, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by 48307

The government, if controlled by the right people, will protect the interests of the people.

If there is no governance, or if the government is controlled by the wrong people, then corporations win, pollute, destroy, etc... There is too much financial incentive to do what isn't good for the environment and all people.

Capitalism is a great thing, but it has its limits, and that is why we need laws and regulations.

By 'right people', do you mean white people? I suspect you had something else in mind, but there are more than a few racists who would agree with your first paragraph -- with their own interpretation of who is the right kind of person. You know, our kind of people.

As to paragraph #2, exactly how much financial incentive should there be so the 'wrong people' don't do bad for the environment? Would the 'right people' gently guide us?

As to paragraph #3, who can argue with that. Esepecially when the 'right people' made the rules. Ah, the good ol' days. Before the 'wrong people' came and stole the election, and the Supreme Court, and the EPA, and your local corner grocery store [[now Walmart).

**Scottathew** · April-18-17, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

By 'right people', do you mean white people? I suspect you had something else in mind, but there are more than a few racists who would agree with your first paragraph -- with their own interpretation of who is the right kind of person. You know, our kind of people.

Nope, I mean people that believe in science, the importance of protecting our environment, and are willing to put the needs of the people above the needs of corporations, millionaires, and billionaires. These people can be of any color, background, or even political party [[although I've Republicans have to do a lot of convincing for me to believe them).

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

As to paragraph #2, exactly how much financial incentive should there be so the 'wrong people' don't do bad for the environment? Would the 'right people' gently guide us?

It depends and is case specific. There needs to be enough financial incentive so that most folks will choose doing the right thing over the wrong thing. For example, discharging untreated waste directly into a river. Or another example would be companies that bury industrial waste in the ground instead of properly disposing of it.

If we find the current penalties aren't enough, then we may need higher penalties and tougher enforcement.

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

As to paragraph #3, who can argue with that. Esepecially when the 'right people' made the rules. Ah, the good ol' days. Before the 'wrong people' came and stole the election, and the Supreme Court, and the EPA, and your local corner grocery store [[now Walmart).

The election was won fairly, to my knowledge. But we must deal with the fact that the people running our government at the highest levels simply do not believe in science. Hopefully one day enough American's will vote in a way that non-believers [[science believers) won't be elected and dismantle the EPA and many other protections we have.

**Don K** · April-18-17, 04:12 PM

The right people would be people who believe that public health is more important than another penny in EPS, and that "Pure Michigan" is more than just an advertising slogan to get Hoosiers to spend their tourism dollars here or to get people to buy Kroger milk.

Meanwhile, it seems as though Pruitt wants to close the Great Lakes office of the EPA. We all do realize most of us get our water from the Great Lakes, right? Well, I suppose those of us who can't afford to put bottled water in our water heaters to shower are all moochers and looters, right?

**O3H** · April-18-17, 05:12 PM

Get the scoop directly from the MDEQ -- http://bit.ly/CallDEQ
Ask why it takes up to a week, sometimes longer, to get PUBLIC reports concerning sewage dumping into our local waterways, with the summer season upon us.

Look up your community, your city, your area - http://www.deq.state.mi.us/csosso/
Remember that Ecoli bacteria sticks to sand, since it is a rough texture [[its rock).
The Ecoli test from MDEQ checks the surface water - but everyone ""walks"" in.
Figure hundreds of kids & adults stirring up the sand, then figure the Ecoli level.
What was checked at 6am on flat water, will not equal the reality of that beach.

Think Hackel will ever close a beach for July 4th - right after a MAJOR thunderstorm?
No way in hell, and he has proven that fact, on repeated occasions, over years.
Image the backlash of a closed MetroPark, no swimming, on July 4th ???????
Are your kids safe, I'll let you call the MDEQ and let you ask them.

Remember that the 12TownsDrain is basically at ""Madison Heights"" = OaklandCounty
It flows under Dequindre Road into Warren, the Red Run Drain in Macomb.
The millions of gallons [[combined sewage) go in Clinton River and on to Metro Beach.
Oakland Co SOCSDS 12 Towns RTF - [[MI0026115)
South Oakland County Sewage Disposal Service and Retention Treat Facility
-- this is not a full blown water treatment plant, merely a storage basin during storms
It will not show up if you search for Macomb County, since it's across the border

http://bit.ly/12TownsDrain

**O3H** · April-20-17, 08:28 PM

We most definitely had an EXTREME hard intense rainfall
- any bets on the timing of the MDEQ on sewage overflows ?

Remember it's Thursday afternoon/evening, tomorrow Friday
The MDEQ folks don't do weekends, so maybe we'll see something Monday.
Personally I won't hold my breath, I'll say next Wednesday at the earliest.

**MikeM** · April-21-17, 01:41 AM

I'll ask again: What is the purpose of the delay?

**GMan** · April-21-17, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by MikeM

I'll ask again: What is the purpose of the delay?

No purpose, just a bureaucracy and bureaucracies are slow.

**MikeM** · April-21-17, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by GMan

No purpose, just a bureaucracy and bureaucracies are slow.

That's not what's being implied here.

**O3H** · April-21-17, 05:39 PM

MikeM - It is straightforward and direct.
MDEQ does not work nights, weekends, holidays, etc.
Reality it rains like hell, repeatedly, exactly when MDEQ cannot staff public reports.

Soooo those that recreate In, On, and around Public Waterways get ZERO
reporting in a timely manner, when they need it the most - the day after, when the sun comes out and everyone wants to splash the water.

Sewage Overflows are a massive issue around greater Metropolitan Detroit.
The GLWA has not exactly jumped on the problem with glee.
People have short memories, LBrooksP was an attorney, prosecutor for Oakland.
He knows how to skirt around the CSO/SSO problem, and spin to win.
http://bit.ly/PattersonAlbatross

**O3H** · April-28-17, 12:45 PM

Another storm predicted for Sunday, more sewage overflows on the horizon

**gazhekwe** · April-29-17, 08:31 AM

Reason for delays include inertia, as in, we don't work weekends and remember, there is no funding for emergency reporting.

Then there is the long chain of responsibility, each entity interested in saving itself from reproach and expense. No entity responsible for the movement of water through its systems is anxious to spend scarce money to fix infrastructure. If you know it is happening, and you don't fix it, it will keep on happening. Trying to assign blame and cost responsibility is fruitless.

We need a unifying treaty to include all of these entities in the responsibility. Sewage in the system? Everybody has to chip in, and all have to upgrade. No half measures. If we are serious in protecting our waters, we must have that resolve.