Plans for the Joe Louis Arena Site

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · April-07-17, 09:00 AM

I know the bankruptcy included turning over JLA to a creditor to turn into a hotel IIRC. Does anyone know if there is either a time frame for that, or if there have been any renderings? I just hope they can integrate whatever is put there into both the RiverWalk and the street grid more enticingly than JLA is. Any info is appreciated [[although I am not sure there is any public info out there). Thanks.

**Hypestyles** · April-07-17, 12:38 PM

I hope it includes a plan to hire locally. Whenever a demolition is done, I hope that the construction gets underway ASAP. Don't let it sit vacant for years.

**EGrant** · April-07-17, 01:11 PM

I vaguely remember some plans for condos, but here's some things I'd like to see:

-Expansion of Cobo.
-Brush Park-style development. I'd prefer this over some high rise condos that insulate residents from the street. Mix in some retail and restaurants.
-A TopGolf
-Outdoor amphitheater. Turn Chene Park site into a real park and build something new at the Joe Site
-Cheesecake Factory. Kidding.

And no matter what gets build, I hope they make the area more pedestrian friendly. There's a lot of dead space thanks to traffic.

**ABetterDetroit** · April-07-17, 03:54 PM

This is from October last year tho not very long on the details:

Future: Joe Louis Arena is expected to be demolished next year with the rink and adjacent parking lot being redeveloped by the Financial Guaranty Insurance Company, a bond insurer with a $1 billion claim against Detroit. Mayor Mike Duggan said a high-rise residential building will likely replace the home of the Red Wings.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/10/17/final-period-begins-joe-louis-arena/92218854/

**401don** · April-07-17, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by EGrant

I vaguely remember some plans for condos, but here's some things I'd like to see:

-Expansion of Cobo.
-Brush Park-style development. I'd prefer this over some high rise condos that insulate residents from the street. Mix in some retail and restaurants.
-A TopGolf
-Outdoor amphitheater. Turn Chene Park site into a real park and build something new at the Joe Site
-Cheesecake Factory. Kidding.

And no matter what gets build, I hope they make the area more pedestrian friendly. There's a lot of dead space thanks to traffic.

Why on earth would retail and restaurants locate there?

**Scottathew** · April-07-17, 05:34 PM

If my memory serves me correctly, they have to have it built by a certain time or they lose the property.

**hybridy** · April-07-17, 07:26 PM

There are some wild studies out there...

-cobo expansion
-retail
-high rise hotel/residential

iirc the associated parking decks are end of life thus project footprint could expand significantly

-lots of lodge fwy to cover there too

**emu steve** · April-09-17, 04:19 AM

Sorry if we have a thread on this subject. It has been discussed on and off ever since LCA became a possibility.

Lot of detail in this article and unless my recollections are faulty, a lot of detail in this article is different than previous articles.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...ext/100230572/

The basic fact is still the same: The site was committed to the company which guaranteed Detrot's bonds.

What seems different is what might go up there.

Originally thought another hotel. Now, something else very likely.

This should be an interesting story to follow over say the next 12 to 18 months as plans develop as as it prepares to meet the wrecking ball this fall.

From what I read in the article and the little I know of urban theory [[rivers, expressways, railroad tracks, etc. can really divide communities as natural or man made barriers) and in this case the presence of the expressways and Cobo make this site tough to re-integrate into the downtown.

I suspect decisions made on this site will have a huge impact on future development along the west riverfront.

My two cents: The best development would be residential and residential-related commercial building adjacent to the Riverfront Towers. It could extend housing to Cobo and hopefully more residential development westward to west riverfront park.

That is the only development which makes sense to me.

**MikeM** · April-09-17, 08:17 AM

Plans For JLA Site

**dtowncitylover** · April-09-17, 08:30 AM

You didn'texactly look hard enough, did you?

**Zacha341** · April-09-17, 08:40 AM

I vote for residential : ) The location is too tucked away for viable retail downtown.

**K-slice** · April-09-17, 09:35 AM

Covering the lodge and connecting 3rd Street to Jefferson would be a good start. That area desperately needs to be reconnected with the rest of downtown for development to be successful.

**renf** · April-09-17, 11:13 AM

Do I recall that, as part of the bankruptcy agreement, that state of Michigan will pay the cost of the removal of Joe Louis Arena from that site?

**mtburb** · April-09-17, 11:40 AM

I think it should be good for a high-rise residential tower too. This site indeed is too isolated from the rest of downtown for any other purpose.

**hybridy** · April-09-17, 02:18 PM

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...date/17319079/

The creditor, bondholder Financial Guaranty Insurance Co., would agree to redevelop the 8.6 acres by 2020, with a new hotel that would serve Cobo Center alongside new retail and condos, a redevelopment that officials say could open up the west riverfront to even more development in coming years.

Under the FGIC deal, the city would agree to demolish the arena and parking garage. The state has agreed to reimburse the city for the demolition as part of the development plan for the new Red Wings hockey arena just north of downtown.

The hotel, according to court filings, would have a minimum of 300 rooms and be no taller than 30 stories. Development at the site would include "office, retail, commercial, recreation, residential and/or condominium units as shall be determined by the developer."

**emu steve** · April-09-17, 02:53 PM

Copying this post from a thread I mistakenly started this morning. My bad.

***********

Sorry if we have a thread on this subject. It has been discussed on and off ever since LCA became a possibility.

Lot of detail in this article and unless my recollections are faulty, a lot of detail in this article is different than previous articles.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...ext/100230572/

The basic fact is still the same: The site was committed to the company which guaranteed Detrot's bonds.

What seems different is what might go up there.

Originally thought another hotel. Now, something else very likely.

This should be an interesting story to follow over say the next 12 to 18 months as plans develop as as it prepares to meet the wrecking ball this fall.

From what I read in the article and the little I know of urban theory [[rivers, expressways, railroad tracks, etc. can really divide communities as natural or man made barriers) and in this case the presence of the expressways and Cobo make this site tough to re-integrate into the downtown.

I suspect decisions made on this site will have a huge impact on future development along the west riverfront.

My two cents: The best development would be residential and residential-related commercial building adjacent to the Riverfront Towers. It could extend housing to Cobo and hopefully more residential development westward to west riverfront park.

That is the only development which makes sense to me.

**emu steve** · April-09-17, 02:56 PM

My bad. I copied my top post to the other thread.

May this thread RIP.

**Jason** · April-09-17, 04:52 PM

Does anyone know how the hypothetical Cobo expansion was going to work?

The halls are arranged along Washington, and the loading docks are along the back by the Joe. How would Cobo have been expanded without having a really weird circulation?

**Bigb23** · April-09-17, 07:42 PM

Indoor golf ?, give me a break. What part of Manhattan are you from? Bowling has taken a hit lately. Joe Louis Park please.

**DetroitSoldier** · April-09-17, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Jason

Does anyone know how the hypothetical Cobo expansion was going to work?

The halls are arranged along Washington, and the loading docks are along the back by the Joe. How would Cobo have been expanded without having a really weird circulation?

The only way it would make sense to me would be to put in new loading docks where JLA sits now then expand the convention space to include the area of the existing docks.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · April-09-17, 10:35 PM

I wouldn't be opposed to a Cobo expansion if there were a need for one. But is there any reason to believe the current renovated Cobo inhibits substantial business from coming there? Pre-reno it was inadequate, but I think it now fits metro Detroit's convention needs. I'm not trying to spark an argument here. Just wondering: does anyone think we need a larger Cobo?

**mikeg19** · April-10-17, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by 48307

If my memory serves me correctly, they have to have it built by a certain time or they lose the property.

I believe it was 2020 or something like that. They can't sit on it and why would they? They are a creditor, not a developer. They want their money, not some piece of property. I'd imagine things move quickly as long as the economy doesn't take a dump on us.

**3WC** · April-10-17, 05:48 PM

My guess is that Financial Guaranty will flip the site to a developer, if it can find one to assume the risk of a residential [[or any other) project on that site.

I just can't imagine Financial Guaranty would ever sign the agreement with the City it apparently did. With that stupid development timetable they would really be screwed if at the time the Red Wings move we were in a economic/real estate/financial downturn as so often happens. I still say there's a chance FG will just walk away from the whole thing. How much more residential development can be supported in Detroit? Not much more in my opinion based on the existing and planned development. Blood will eventually run in the street.

Riverfront Towers would be - and has been - a financial disaster from the time Taubman and Fisher turned the first shovel of earth at the groundbreaking. They knew at the time they would never recover their investment, and Fisher said at the groundbreaking "This is our gift to the City" or something like that, in the hope it would stimulate future development. [[It didn't.)

**ABetterDetroit** · April-10-17, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by 3WC

My guess is that Financial Guaranty will flip the site to a developer, if it can find one to assume the risk of a residential [[or any other) project on that site.

I just can't imagine Financial Guaranty would ever sign the agreement with the City it apparently did. With that stupid development timetable they would really be screwed if at the time the Red Wings move we were in a economic/real estate/financial downturn as so often happens. I still say there's a chance FG will just walk away from the whole thing. How much more residential development can be supported in Detroit? Not much more in my opinion based on the existing and planned development. Blood will eventually run in the street.

Riverfront Towers would be - and has been - a financial disaster from the time Taubman and Fisher turned the first shovel of earth at the groundbreaking. They knew at the time they would never recover their investment, and Fisher said at the groundbreaking "This is our gift to the City" or something like that, in the hope it would stimulate future development. [[It didn't.)

A partner or outright sale is a given. The property holder in this case is a financial institution not developers.

Real estate developments in Detroit from 35 years ago are irrelevant no matter how close to this site they where. Many fortunes have been made in real estate since then. Just look to The White House for an example of a high risk developer that had some success.

**3WC** · April-11-17, 09:44 AM

AbetterDetroit: I was only parroting your initial post that stated FG would develop the site.

You are wrong to claim that the history of Riverfront Towers is irrelevant. Everything in real estate development is relevant.

Everyone knows that there have been real estate successes since RT was developed. There have been, probably, an equal number of failures.

I think we would both agree that the development of the JLA site will be very risky, but that's not to say there aren't risk takers around [[some with more money or access to money than brains) who will take a shot at the site. I hope someone does as I'm very curious to see how far the downtown Detroit real estate envelope can be pushed.

Anybody think Gilbert will take the shot on that location?

The thing that really amuses me is that Duggan has apparently mandated that if a hotel is built there it must have at least 300 rooms, but be no higher than 30 stories. Duggan, the real estate genius. Reminds me of that nitwit Archer mandating that each casino hotel must have at least 800 rooms. We all know how that turned out.