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  1. #51

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    The Platform owns the lot just west of JLA. I am guessing they will be going big there but are just waiting for things to shake out a bit more.

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by southen View Post
    The Platform owns the lot just west of JLA. I am guessing they will be going big there but are just waiting for things to shake out a bit more.
    intriguing...i was not aware. and the lot between riverfront towers and west riverfront park (between 6th and 8th)? that's a hot property

  3. #53

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    How would access to the Cobo roof parking be handled without the circular ramp?

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by gumby View Post
    How would access to the Cobo roof parking be handled without the circular ramp?
    im guessing it's planned to be reconfigured as part of an expansion

  5. #55

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    If they're gonna remove all the ramps, they might as well cap the Lodge south of Fort and extend Congress across as well.

  6. #56

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    Extension sought for Joe Louis Arena development plans

    should say 'third extension'

    That agreement had originally anticipated that demolition would occur within 90 days of when the Red Wings' lease expired in fall 2017.
    FGIC seeks to recoup its money by developing the site after the arena is demolished.

    Gotham filed a lawsuit in U.S. Bankruptcy Court last year, arguing that up to two more years were needed to come up with a development plan. The city had refused, initially giving the bond insurer until August 2018.


    Later, a mediation settlement gave FGIC an extension to Jan. 15, 2020.
    For context to the BS timing. Milwaukee opened new Bucks arena Fiserv Forum in June 2018. The vacated Bradley Center was demolished by May 2019. In addition, this Bucks opened a Live Block and entertainment plaza in fall 2018 and larger planning efforts for the greater Deer District are underway.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by hybridy View Post
    Extension sought for Joe Louis Arena development plans

    should say 'third extension'





    For context to the BS timing. Milwaukee opened new Bucks arena Fiserv Forum in June 2018. The vacated Bradley Center was demolished by May 2019. In addition, this Bucks opened a Live Block and entertainment plaza in fall 2018 and larger planning efforts for the greater Deer District are underway.
    I'm guessing they have realized what a useless site they've acquired. It probably will remain undeveloped for years.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by 401don View Post
    I'm guessing they have realized what a useless site they've acquired. It probably will remain undeveloped for years.
    It is sort of a lost little island...but with great views

  9. #59

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    A question worth asking after revisiting this thread is does capping all that freeway in front of the Joe site make financial sense to the taxpayers? It’s an expensive undertaking. Who really would benefit besides the owner of this parcel and maybe the Riverfront Towers?

    MDOT coffers are not exactly overflowing lately.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit View Post
    A question worth asking after revisiting this thread is does capping all that freeway in front of the Joe site make financial sense to the taxpayers? It’s an expensive undertaking. Who really would benefit besides the owner of this parcel and maybe the Riverfront Towers?

    MDOT coffers are not exactly overflowing lately.
    I think it's more of a pipe dream than anything you're likely to see, certainly not soon enough to affect the developers "possible" plans.

  11. #61

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    My take on the situation is that a 300-Room convention hotel is not the most profitable business decision out there... but in terms of attracting conventions and other large events, having another large hotel (i.e. not another small botique) is critical. I don’t think many people realize how far Detroit is behind even smaller peer Midwestern cities like Cleveland and Indy in this regard.

    So since this company is on the hook to build it, and because there is a significant need for it, I say make them keep their end of the bargain. Don’t spin it off to a private residential development or other use. Get the big hotel, connect it to Cobo (soon to be TCF), and get more visitors to the CBD.

    We need the big 300 room hotel to attract more conventions, sporting and other events, and tourism in general. These visitors will be able to see a new Detroit, and share their experience with others wherever they call home. And in addition to the business case for wanting more events, the bigger benefit for Detroit is changing the negative perceptions that outsiders have of the city and region, which might be Detroit’s biggest problem of all.

  12. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
    My take on the situation is that a 300-Room convention hotel is not the most profitable business decision out there... but in terms of attracting conventions and other large events, having another large hotel (i.e. not another small botique) is critical. I don’t think many people realize how far Detroit is behind even smaller peer Midwestern cities like Cleveland and Indy in this regard.

    So since this company is on the hook to build it, and because there is a significant need for it, I say make them keep their end of the bargain. Don’t spin it off to a private residential development or other use. Get the big hotel, connect it to Cobo (soon to be TCF), and get more visitors to the CBD.

    ...These visitors will be able to see a new Detroit, and share their experience with others wherever they call home. And in addition to the business case for wanting more events, the bigger benefit for Detroit is changing the negative perceptions that outsiders have of the city and region, which might be Detroit’s biggest problem of all.
    New Detroit would look a lot like old Detroit to guests in a hotel built on the old Joe site. Here's why:

    1. Minimal walk-ability for an out-of-towner not familiar with the area. The hotel would face Jefferson and the Lodge trench on one side and one of the less desirable/lively sections of the riverwalk on the other.

    2. With the hotel being a stones throw from COBO (let's be honest, they WILL build a skywalk) most guests will exit the lodge right in front of the hotel, check in, go to their convention, check out, and be right back on the highway home.

    3. All the nooks and overpasses created by the highway exits and elevated roadways make this area bum central in the current configuration.

    The lodge absolutely needs to be reconfigured in this area or the most we can hope for is an underwhelming hotel with no connection to downtown, but we're much more likely to see a lingering dirt lot.

    I also have an issue with the thought that covering the highway and remaking the street grid would only benefit this developer/project. This area is a huge encumbrance to westward development expansion from Downtown in general. This and that giant ugly post office...

  13. #63

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    Capping the Lodge would be expensive and of course that matters, but the benefits would extend far beyond any particular property owners. It would (only partially) remediate the failure of cleaving gashes of expressway toxic zones and their gushes of car traffic into what once was and should still be our civic heart.

    What's the value of a much more pedestrian friendly downtown less isolated and less harmed by the terrible mistakes of our misguided past?

    The costs of remediation must be measured against the incalculable and compounding costs we continue to incur failing to remove the cancers.
    Last edited by bust; June-21-19 at 08:37 PM.

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by K-slice View Post
    New Detroit would look a lot like old Detroit to guests in a hotel built on the old Joe site. Here's why:

    1. Minimal walk-ability for an out-of-towner not familiar with the area. The hotel would face Jefferson and the Lodge trench on one side and one of the less desirable/lively sections of the riverwalk on the other.

    2. With the hotel being a stones throw from COBO (let's be honest, they WILL build a skywalk) most guests will exit the lodge right in front of the hotel, check in, go to their convention, check out, and be right back on the highway home.

    3. All the nooks and overpasses created by the highway exits and elevated roadways make this area bum central in the current configuration.

    The lodge absolutely needs to be reconfigured in this area or the most we can hope for is an underwhelming hotel with no connection to downtown, but we're much more likely to see a lingering dirt lot.

    I also have an issue with the thought that covering the highway and remaking the street grid would only benefit this developer/project. This area is a huge encumbrance to westward development expansion from Downtown in general. This and that giant ugly post office...
    Now this is a intriguing idea. “Reconfigured.” To hell with capping. Bring the Lodge back up to the surface as a street and reconnect to the grid. At least back to Howard, maybe further. It would open up far more than just a few parcels on the river.

    Done in conjunction with the master plan doing the same with 375 as MDOT has already floated it could be a game changer for the entire riverfront. Downtown to east and west.

    I am with you K-slice. The post office sure is not pretty and I would venture to guess they could use a much more modern facility. Unfortunately for this idea the USPO, MDOT and FHWA are entities deep in the process of defunding over the last few decades. They are a collection of the bastard step children with their empty soup bowls in front of them.

  15. #65

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    How are you going to put the Lodge Fwy up to street level with Cobo in the way?

  16. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by K-slice View Post
    New Detroit would look a lot like old Detroit to guests in a hotel built on the old Joe site. Here's why:

    1. Minimal walk-ability for an out-of-towner not familiar with the area. The hotel would face Jefferson and the Lodge trench on one side and one of the less desirable/lively sections of the riverwalk on the other.

    2. With the hotel being a stones throw from COBO (let's be honest, they WILL build a skywalk) most guests will exit the lodge right in front of the hotel, check in, go to their convention, check out, and be right back on the highway home.

    3. All the nooks and overpasses created by the highway exits and elevated roadways make this area bum central in the current configuration.

    The lodge absolutely needs to be reconfigured in this area or the most we can hope for is an underwhelming hotel with no connection to downtown, but we're much more likely to see a lingering dirt lot.

    I also have an issue with the thought that covering the highway and remaking the street grid would only benefit this developer/project. This area is a huge encumbrance to westward development expansion from Downtown in general. This and that giant ugly post office...

    I dont disagree with any of your points, I just disagree with the sum of the assessment. Yes, a 300-room hotel built on this site would be isolated and the only pedestrian connections would be a Cobo-skywalk, the people mover, or river walk. It would be cutoff from the CBD, and most guests would be drive in and drive out. I don’t disagree with any of that.

    What I am saying is having a bland 300-room chain Hilton, Hyatt, etc. is better than the alternative... which is no new 300 room hotel in the city. Detroit is missing out on conventions and major events because of the lack of big hotels. We have only 3 large non-casino hotels in the city (RenCen Marriott, Book Cadillac, Crowne Plaza). I can’t share all the details, but people would be shocked at how many events Detroit misses out on because of not having a few more larger hotels. Most midwestern MSAs half of Detroit size have triple the number of large hotels as Detroit. It cost Detroit a NCAA final four, it has cost us numerous conventions (and additional attending guests who would have stayed in better located Downtown hotels), and it has cost the chance to change people’s mind about the city.

    The outside perception of Detroit is very bad. So bad, that honestly the bland drive-in, drive-out experience you scoff at would actually be a good thing. Because the person who did it wouldn’t get robbed, wouldn’t get shot at, wouldn’t see cars on fire, and might just take an Uber ride to a downtown restaurant while they are here. And as uneventful as that experience would be, it would also cancel out the image of ruin
    porn they were expecting to see.

    I am all for the botique hotels and pedestrian connections. But I am also for diversity... and in this case diversity is getting that bland, disconnected 300-room hotel. In the bigger picture, it is a necessary evil to change the story about Detroit.

    p.s. In response to the capping of M-10, all in favor of the idea... but also know MDOT has no money to make it happen. So we are stuck with the cards we are dealt. Might as well make the best of it and put up a 300 room Hilton.

  17. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gistok View Post
    How are you going to put the Lodge Fwy up to street level with Cobo in the way?
    Dare to dream Gistok

    Gilbert Street tunnel under TCF Hall would no longer be expressway or engineered for speed. Geothermal heated ramps would make them as short as possible with maximum grades. Divided sidewalk and bicycle path of course.

    Then, at street level heading west after the third avenue light there would be another light only a halfblock down from there where the useless ugly parking deck used to be that nobody wanted or really knew what do with. There you could go straight on west Jefferson or turn left and still be on Gilbert Street heading north northwest where the Lodge freeway used to be after it had a diet and was pulled out of the trench to street level and connected to its cross streets. Gilbert Street would terminate at the Lodge after the light at Porter.

    Atticus,

    I concur. Playing the cards that are dealt the large convention hotel next to TFC Hall is the correct move. As many rooms as possible. Detroit needs them, it was previously agreed upon, and there will not be any other possibility for anything else on that island anytime soon. Get it done and move on to the next problem.
    Last edited by ABetterDetroit; June-21-19 at 10:07 PM.

  18. #68

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    Connection for Cobo with the Crowne Plaza hotel is all ready, except of course for a skywalk connection over to the expanded hotel.

    Connection for Cobo with a JLA site hotel would require some internal work to connect public spaces...

    https://www.cobocenter.com/assets/do...72a10915ac.pdf

  19. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by K-slice View Post

    I also have an issue with the thought that covering the highway and remaking the street grid would only benefit this developer/project. This area is a huge encumbrance to westward development expansion from Downtown in general. This and that giant ugly post office...
    Agreed. Except tear out the Lodge all the way back to the 75 interchange and have an off ramp to Michigan Ave. Fill in the rest and put back the street grid and reconnect Corktown, etc. back to downtown without the Lodge monstrosity running through.

  20. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitGuy423 View Post
    Agreed. Except tear out the Lodge all the way back to the 75 interchange and have an off ramp to Michigan Ave. Fill in the rest and put back the street grid and reconnect Corktown, etc. back to downtown without the Lodge monstrosity running through.
    Totally agree.

    I'll add care must prevent Michigan from becoming the speedway the off ramp makes Gratiot over by Eastern Market. Maybe also narrow the Lodge after the 75 interchange to encourage some traffic to opt for Grand River instead. Build municipal parking garages near the exits -- tall ones -- and improve transit and alternative transit for the short final legs.
    Last edited by bust; June-25-19 at 02:28 PM.

  21. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by bust View Post
    Totally agree.

    I'll add care must prevent Michigan from becoming the speedway the off ramp makes Gratiot over by Eastern Market. Maybe also narrow the Lodge after the 75 interchange to encourage some traffic to opt for Grand River instead. Build municipal parking garages near the exits -- tall ones -- and improve transit and alternative transit for the short final legs.
    Great ideas!

    And yes, good point on Gratiot, that off ramp is basically a full blown freeway.

  22. #72

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    I disagree.... if you make it hard for westsiders to get to the tunnel thru downtown gridlock... they'll just use Matty's bridge instead!!

    Imagine the traffic jams on the surface streets, and with Woodward closed at Larned, it will be a real mess when you can't go under or easily get around Cobo Center... it is after all the 800 lb. Gorilla in discussions about removing the Lodge....
    Last edited by Gistok; June-25-19 at 05:04 PM.

  23. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gistok View Post
    westsiders... they'll just use Matty's bridge instead!!
    Great. Or the new one. West and Northwestsiders going to Canada shouldn't bring their traffic downtown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gistok View Post
    Imagine the traffic jams on the surface streets, and with Woodward closed at Larned, it will be a real mess when you can't go under or easily get around Cobo Center... it is after all the 800 lb. Gorilla in discussions about removing the Lodge....
    It takes a little more imagination. A good plan would reduce traffic downtown.
    And why shouldn't Jefferson and Larned continue to run under Cobo? They should.
    Last edited by bust; June-26-19 at 08:39 AM.

  24. #74

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    MDOT could end the Lodge at Howard Street and connect Third Avenue to Steve Yzerman Lane, which would connect any hotel or apartment to the CBD.

  25. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by royce View Post
    MDOT could end the Lodge at Howard Street and connect Third Avenue to Steve Yzerman Lane, which would connect any hotel or apartment to the CBD.
    MDOT could. MDOT could also build an underground subway system, high speed bullet train from downtown to DTW, and cap I-75 between M-10 and Eastern Market while they are at it.

    In both those cases, as with the elimination of M-10 under Cobo, MDOT just needs a giant pile of cash to make it happen. I wonder how much extra money MDOT has laying around these days for such projects....

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