GerryMandering and Drainage

[Dumpling]

The WRRF [[Water Resource Recovery Facility) is now disinfecting
all of the discharged wastewater.

This was the plan:

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/d...5_509722_7.pdf

These are the builders, and as planned, the new facility started
operation in spring 2019, and the entire plant flow is now
disinfected with either chlorine or bleach and then dechlorinated.

https://www.cdmsmith.com/en/Client-S.../Projects/GLWA

[O3H]

Rain is always dynamic, in a constant state of flux.
Duration, Intensity and Location play key roles .

Good to see people working on it, doing something.

I've always found it interesting when it doesn't go
to "simulation" constraints because of guesses, assumptions, averages, etc.
Actual calculating runoff via existing parking lot sizes and millions sq ft of roofs, based on aerial/satellite surveillance along the 9 miles of Mound Industrial Corridor perhaps......

On one hand HOLD the flow to avoid the big releases,
but make the flow faster to avoid it going septic.

Experience has shown that public perception is an important factor
in the design of CSO retention basins.
Recent designs of CSO retention basins have incorporated aesthetic
elements, such as parks or recreational areas, on top of covered basins. The GWK soccer area, bark park, etc. BUT Warren gets an open scarred ditch 100 feet wide and 30 ft deep, nice huh ?

Sodium Hypochlorite goes for about $1 a gallon in bulk quantities

[Honky Tonk]

Recent designs of CSO retention basins have incorporated aesthetic elements, such as parks or recreational areas, on top of covered basins. The GWK soccer area, bark park, etc. BUT Warren gets an open scarred ditch 100 feet wide and 30 ft deep, nice huh ?

Have you brought this up to Fouts? What was his response?

[O3H]

The sewage map:
OXFORD all the way to deep down in the D along the river
An amazing amount of poop mileage, in pipes, sliding around.

[[you may want to scroll down)


https://web.archive.org/web/20180227...tem/sewer-map/

[Dumpling]

Thank you, O3H, for the Jones invoice for a tanker of industrial
hypochlorite.

For the dedicated [[somethings), here are a couple of helpful
related pages:

https://www.wef.org/globalassets/ass...---march11.pdf

and


http://www.waterguardinc.com/files/90302104.pdf

[Dumpling]

I'm liking the second item, the technical bulletin for sodium
hypochlorite, a little bit better, but there's helpful information
in each one.

So the Jones tanker brought about 4,000 gallons of nominal 15%
[[by VOLUME) bleach which is "actual" 12.5% available chlorine
[[by WEIGHT) and as an operator I'd be using that second percentage
day-to-day.

For the full strength 12.5% amount, there is this footnote in
the technical bulletin that states: 9.6 gallons [[of the 12.5%
bleach) will yield 12 pounds of pure chlorine.

[Dumpling]

Going by that footnote, 4000 gallons divided by 9.6 gallons * 12 = 5000
pounds chlorine.

OR: 12 lbs Cl2 divided by 9.6 gallons = 1.25 lbs Cl2 per gallon.

4,000 gallons * 1.25 lbs Cl2 per gallon = 5,000 effective lbs Cl2
per tanker load.

[Dumpling]

[[BTW - no I'm not special for knowing this algebra - hundreds of
GLWA as well as employees of other utilities have a water or
wastewater license that involves knowing how to do this kind
of math)

So if a county paid $4,000 for a tanker load of 5,000 effective
lbs Cl2 then they paid $0.80 per pound of Cl2.

Of course if the county lets the bleach stand in the tank for 60 days
without using it up [[see the chart in the technical bulletin) then

0.407 [[from the chart, the line for 60 days) * $0.80 = $0.325 is the
extra amount paid per pound.

[Dumpling]

Again, the following info is for the dedicated.

Checking the first entry in the chart "What every operator
should know about sodium hypochlorite" by Rob Baur, which
is the first document given in the above post, the relevant
principle reads, "Sodium hypochlorite is chlorine gas dissolved
in sodium hydroxide. This is essentially household bleach."

https://cen.acs.org/business/finance...-fixing/97/i13

It isn't certain that the price of industrial sodium hypochlorite is
directly affected by the price of caustic soda [[this chemical is
AKA sodium hydroxide) but it could be, or it could be at direct
risk of being affected by the alleged price-fixing of caustic soda.

There could be some independent manufacturer of industrial
sodium hypochlorite that is currently being squeezed by an
increase in caustic soda [[NaOH) price though the sodium
hypochlorite price remains the same or is lowered. [[I don't
study this market at all, just am familiar with the news item.)

[Dumpling]

But, there's always room for alternative narratives. Some of you
may recall that prices for transportation fuel spiked between 2006
and 2012. Presumably on this account, household bleach manufacturers
went with a more concentrated form of bleach. Therefore the amount
of caustic soda [[sodium hydroxide) used overall was affected. It would
have decreased both due to the reformulation and to the recession.
Therefore there would have been a decrease in the price of caustic
soda and then industry reconsolidation.

A gallon of household bleach nowadays might be listed as
having a concentration of 8.25%. This is most likely the
nominal volume concentration. This could be 7% by weight.
Using the 1.25 lb Cl2 per gallon of 12.5% and cross
multiplying gives 0.7 lb Cl2 per gallon of household
bleach [[if it hasn't sat around for too long).

[Richard]

As a side note,caustic soda is used in meth production so it became a limited excess to the general public,it used to be sold off the selves in box stores but now mostly through internet purchases in small quantities,so it can be tracked.

It is still used in a small percentage of drain cleaners,but the limited advailable access to the public drove the price down as the market narrowed.

Same thing they did with phosphates and all of the sudden the dishes and clothes were not getting clean like they used to.

Caustic soda was a favorite because it would literally melt heavy grease off of equipment

[O3H]

People didn't always excel at high school chemistry and get confused.

Remember IONS ? A cation is a positively-charged ion, an anion is negatively charged. How about ordinary table salt you eat every day , Sodium Chloride , NaCl ?

Let’s set the record right and help out those confused folks among us.
Sodium hypochlorite — Lithium hypochlorite — Calcium hypochlorite
These are known as UN-stabilized Chlorine compounds.

The stuff for your POOL is stabilized via Cyanuric Acid [[sunblock)
Sunshine quickly degrades chlorine, making it loose effectiveness over time.
You may have seen Dichlor and Trichlor for outdoor pools sold as a “puck”
So what you say, all chlorine works in a similar manner, right ?

WRONG – The key item to focus upon is the [[AC) =available chlorine

• Sodium Hypochlorite

Sodium Hypochlorite is a liquid Chlorine and has around 10-12% [[AC). Ordinary household bleach has only about 5% [[AC) , it is weak/safe in comparison.

• Lithium Hypochlorite

Lithium Hypochlorite is granular Chlorine with a 35% [[AC) . Often used as a shock treatment for pools, but it is relatively expensive in large quantities

• Calcium Hypochlorite

Calcium Hypochlorite is granular with [[AC) of 40-70% used in pools.

SMELL – there is too much chlorine in the pool Myth

Hypochlorous Acid is the disinfectant form of Chlorine in the water known to most as Free Chlorine, or what you test your water to see what level it is. Hypochlorous Acid is made up of a Hydogren ion and a Hypochlorite ion. These two Ions join and separate a number of times in the water. Their main purpose is to break apart, attack the bad stuff, regenerate, and reconnect keeping the water disinfected.

When you smell a “Chlorine” smell it’s the Hypochorous Acid that broke apart, attacked the bad stuff, but has nothing to regenerate and attach itself to. This give off the smell which makes one think the level is too high when it’s actually too low. The best remedy is to shock the pool to raise the Chlorine level and to get rid of the bad stuff.

[Richard]

Putting a little Vick’s under ones nose helps with drainage.

[O3H]

People will want a RIDER on their insurance policy against flooding.
It's the only way to truly protect yourself [[the vicks is temporary).

Macomb County has had numerous flooding events
July 2005
Feb 2006
March 2007
Sept 2008
June 2009
July 2011
August 2014

Hardly an isolated, unique, once in a lifetime , or 1 in 100 year event.
It is a chronic, repeated, infrastructure failure due to lack of political will

You think someone from Bloomfield will drive across town to help you.....

[Richard]

Most homeowners and renters insurance policies do not cover flood damage. A property owner is eligible to purchase flood insurance as long as the community in which they live participates in the National Flood Insurance Program [[NFIP).

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/c...15_24998_7.pdf

[O3H]

ANYONE can purchase an insurance rider for flood insurance.

The FEMA maps are bogus, outdated and erroneous. Protect yourself.
Remember that FEMA exists for parasitic insurance companies, FACT.

Most of Macomb has flooding issues, dating back many decades




insurancebusinessmag.com/us/news/catastrophe/are-fema-maps-missing-the-mark


A report by Department of Homeland Security Inspector General found that many of the maps may not reflect actual flood risk, or are out of date.

“Without accurate floodplain identification and mapping processes, management, and oversight, FEMA cannot provide members of the public with a reliable rendering of their true flood vulnerability or ensure that [NFIP] rates reflect the real risk of flooding,” the report said.

FEMA said that it has spent $200 million in recent years to update the maps. But a study in February found the agency’s efforts wanting. Environmental Research Letters reported that more than 40 million Americans are exposed to serious flood risk at the 100-year-flood or 1% level – roughly three times more than the risk FEMA’s flood maps suggest.

Another report by the Inspector General’s Office late last year found that only 42% of the FEMA maps were up to date. Bloomberg also found that some of the maps were very old, some dated as far back as the 1970s.

[Dumpling]

The swimming pool chemical info is timely.

Do you know of anyone's experience getting flood insurance in
Warren? Wouldn't the insurance companies be leery of using
outdated FEMA estimates, which looks to be the case from
your information, in setting their rates?

[O3H]

Yes, which creates the conundrum of soooo many people since Aug 2014.

Basement floods KILL the electronics/motors of:
furnaces
washers
dryers

Who has $10,000 laying around to replace those 3 items + other stuff.

[Richard]

The swimming pool chemical info is timely.

Do you know of anyone's experience getting flood insurance in
Warren? Wouldn't the insurance companies be leery of using
outdated FEMA estimates, which looks to be the case from
your information, in setting their rates?

Insurance companies cover water coming down,the fed flood insurance covers water coming up.

https://www.kiplinger.com/article/in...nce-costs.html

[O3H]

I was payed by private insurance for water coming up.
Especially since I know too many screwed over by FEMA around the country.

Talk to an agent to help make sure you're clear about the
coverage details of a flood insurance policy , the language of a rider, costs, etc.

Really BIG STORMS usually kill the electrical power - no sump, no pumps.
Now that means a generator Outside, running a hot power line into wet basement,
to run a high powered submersible pump with electric from above [[hanging).
Other option is gas powered pumps Outside with large really long hoses
- think emptying pools, yachts, etc. and decent equipment isn't cheap either.

Sue the local city governments, fat chance. Class action lawsuit, you'll get little in the end. Protect yourself against loosing thousands by paying parasitic insurance agents each year, every year, for something that may or may not happen.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/[[S[[c4v...e=2016-HB-5282


Reality is Macomb is relatively flat. It has shoreline around the 600ft sea level.
Oakland County has spots that top out well over a 1,000 ft
- but you'll pay extra for clean water pumped up and sewage removed.
Hill living comes with taxes , a bit like having waterfront property at sea level.

[Gistok]

Here was the "rainstorm of the century".... August 2014... the weather remained stationary... and Warren, Fraser, Roseville just to name a few towns were inundated with rain. My sister in Fraser had water coming up over the curb and sidewalk, but no basement flooding. I live in SCS, [[just green areas) and it was just like any other rain storm with no flooding... we never got any of the red deluge.

I did feel awful for all those who had basement backup....

The next morning I had to get to north of the Clinton River... bad idea... in Macomb County I believe only Groesbeck and Gratiot bridges were passable as the Clinton River flooded above its' banks.

What a sewage mess....

[O3H]

The 2014 was hardly the only time the area experienced flooding.

bit.ly/FloodMacomb

The region has a piss poor infrastructure to contend with modern day
runoff from Millions of square feet of parking lots, industrial centers,
commercial big box stores, shopping malls, etc., etc.

[Canadian Visitor]

Toronto has flooding issues as well.

Though a variety of plans and programs are in place to mitigate the issue.

Specifically, for those who experience sewage backup; there is a relatively low-cost device called a blackflow preventer that you can install.

This is the City of Toronto's page, which I am linking to, simply for information purposes as it explains what device you might choose [[there are different types) and other relevant info.

I would assume the technical details would be similar in Detroit.

https://www.toronto.ca/services-paym...ntion-program/

[O3H]

The catch is the HomeOwner is on the hook for the cost
-- on an issue caused by City Planners, Regional Planners.

[Dumpling]

On June 3 Richard posted a helpful article from Kiplinger.
It states that one can obtain federal flood insurance, there
is a website for it, and that June is a good month for purchasing
flood insurance since there is a 30 day waiting period after
obtaining coverage and flooding tends to happen more
often in the months after June.


https://www.floodsmart.gov/

Well I just checked out the maps for Detroit and Warren on
the site and they are not very current. The areas in Detroit
and Warren that I looked at were described as having
minimal flood hazard though, so that may mean the
insurance would not be so expensive.