GerryMandering and Drainage

[Hermod]

Back in the 1950s, there was a severe drought in SE Michigan. In one of the stalls in a boys room of old Rochester High School, some grafitti artist wrote "Flush the toilet, Utica needs the water."

[Meddle]

OK, here's another proposal: Septic tanks.

What's pumped out goes to a processing facility where it's dried and turned to compost/fertilizer and sold back to local residents. Never goes 50 miles from the source.

[GMan]

Formerly known as the Twelve Towns Drainage District,
GWK Retention Basin serves all or parts of 14 communities encompassing
an area of 24,500 acres upstream of the Red Run Drain.

Attachment 33059

South Oakland County Sewage District System [[SOCSDS -12Towns)

Sewage OVERFLOW happens often, frequently, numerous times,
involving Millions of gallons, sometimes Billions of gallons

Attachment 33060

MDEQ does not and can not "quickly" supply the public with info regarding CSO events as it has to cross the County line of communication divide [[Dequindre). Absolutely nothing is automated, there are very few measuring devices, and it basically comes down to a educated guess - on how many times [[multiple) the ""basin"" filled and released - all gravity driven - using weirs.

Add in a weekend, a holiday, etc. and it could [[and does) often take up to a week.

Kayak in sewage on the Clinton River, anyone, anyone ?
Hackel encourages water recreation on the Clinton River .....
What is the very first thing everyone wants to do after it stops raining
- and the sun comes out for a nice day - go the beach - recreate in the water ?

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...unch/96328462/

https://www.patronicity.com/project/...river_access#/

Thanks LBrooksP - for mucking up Macomb - every times it rains

So the gist of what you are saying is that the retention basin is undersized for the coverage area and the CSO reporting system is antiquated?

[GMan]

OK, here's another proposal: Septic tanks.

What's pumped out goes to a processing facility where it's dried and turned to compost/fertilizer and sold back to local residents. Never goes 50 miles from the source.

I believe regulations mandate that sludge is passed through a treatment plant.
Septage haulers pay a fee to discharge into the receiver station. Not sure if that regulation is at a local or state level though

[O3H]

Septic is a black hole of idiocy - Article excerpt :
http://michigandistilled.org/2015/08...ater-strategy/

Michigan has more than 1.3 million on-site wastewater systems [[septics), but is the only state without a specific law regulating them. No central system exists to track the locations or conditions of these systems as Michigan lacks a statewide sanitary code that would require inspections. Only 11 of Michigan’s 83 counties conduct septic inspections at time the time of real estate transaction.
More than half of all new single-family houses built today in Michigan are not serviced by a public wastewater utility but instead rely on individual septic systems. The report estimates that at least 130,000 systems statewide are likely failing and discharging as much as 31 million gallons of sewage per day.

[Király]

This should be outlawed/banished by The State of Michigan

Attachment 33003

What exactly are the boundaries that this map shows?

[O3H]

Incineration of “sewage sludge” aka biosolids,
is quite the continual complex balancing act,
involving numerous mechanical mechanisms,
and of course – attentive human operators.


The EPA has some guidelines to aid the operators of incinerators
Chapter 4 – Guide to Part 503 Rule
http://water.epa.gov/scitech/wastetech/biosolids/upload/2002_06_28_mtb_biosolid




Sludge and incineration are such a tricky, complex, balancing act, that involves a massive amount of variables , under Human Operators, - making it very , very tough to instill confidence in "proper" operation on a daily basis.

NEFCO will make amazing amounts of money via DWSD contracts
for the drying/processing of sewage sludge for Detroit.
Remember the Synagro contracts worth literally a Billion dollars ?
An article at WaterWorld entitled
“How water utilities are turning waste into resource”
written by Angela Godwin [[Volume 28 issue 7) says
“”Detroit Water and Sewerage Department [[DWSD),
for example, will provide DTE Energy Services [[DTEES)
with 800,000 wet tons of biosolids annually
— biosolids that would otherwise have been incinerated.
DTEES will further process the biosolids into pellets
that it will sell to its River Rouge Power Plant
and other utilities that currently burn coal.

[O3H]

Guess where ALL that sewage sludge comes from - The Interceptors





Oxford - for crying out loud - sends sewage to Detroit - via the Interceptors

and it all goes thru Warren, towards Detroit





Now hopefully will have an epiphany, a light bulb moment, understanding WHY we don't have many Waste Water Treatment Plants for clean water into the lakes.

This is the big picture, regional, infrastructure dilema, we all face.

It also shows that we will continue to have combined sewer systems in Eastern Oakland County - 12TownsDrain - feeding the GWK Retention Basin - and polluting the Clinton River - for probably another 2 or 3 decades - due the GERRYMANDERING.

GERRY MANDERING keeps people stupid - one hand doesn't have a clue what the other hand is doing - no clue what anyone is voting for - creating chaotic legislature .

Time for BIG picture thinking - way beyond the Detroit Bankruptcy - How do we PROTECT our Great Lakes - fresh water - drinking systems - from sewage overflows ?

[O3H]

Congressional Districts - around Metro Detroit

[O3H]

The 12TownsDrain is manmade, UNnatural flow of stormwater [[mixed with sewage).
The combined sewage system infrastructure of OaklandCounty - fouls the ClintonRiver for those wanting to recreate in MtClemens [[kayak/canoe) after a rainfall

[Meddle]

I'm not talking about incineration and there is no reason to post a billion pictures and screen caps.

They can regulate septic tanks easier that mega dollar pumping and transport/drainage systems.

What I'm talking about is keep your own shit local -- literally. Recycle it and put it back on your lawn. Treatment plants don't have to be built to serve millions. They can be built to serve thousands where they turn waste to compost/fertilizer and put to good use instead of dumped in the lakes and rivers.

[O3H]

What I'm talking about is keep your own shit local -- literally. Recycle it and put it back on your lawn.

We will let you go first - do it - make it happen.
Imagine the smell and stench during 2 weeks of 90 degree weather
in a densely populated city like Royal Oak, Clawson, Berkley

No doubt they would like to save MILLIONS of dollars / per year
It only costs $ 50 Million each year - for the current system of CSO events.
12TownsDrain = GWK Retention Basin - flows into Clinton River via Red Run

[Meddle]

Ya' ain'ta' gittin' it Dude. Might hafta' draw ya' a pitcher, ya' seems ta' like'em so much.

[O3H]

Ya' ain'ta' gittin' it Dude. Might hafta' draw ya' a pitcher, ya' seems ta' like'em so much.

You have a picture of a pile of shit - on your front yard - well ain't that special

Lookup NIMBY and see how it flies in your neighborhood, pun intended

[Meddle]

No, I have a picture of 15 or 20 [[or more) waste treatment facilities instead of 3 or 4, each one handling product from residents no more than 10 or 15 miles away. Smaller facilities instead of massive ones. The hoity-toity could keep their toity stuff to themselves so no one else could have it.


Contained systems. Pump it from septic tanks, haul to it closed processing tanks. And if septic tanks are maintained right and people pay attention to what goes down the drain, there shouldn't be a lot to move.

No river or stream dumping would be permitted. Facilities would be sized to handle storm runoff.

[O3H]

Contained systems. Pump it from septic tanks, haul to it closed processing tanks. And if septic tanks are maintained right and people pay attention to what goes down the drain, there shouldn't be a lot to move.

Sorry-think you're really, really out of touch with reality
No clue of logistical costs involved with that weird idea.
About 100 gallons per day/ per house - from shower, laundry, dishwasher, etc. ?
Might work for farm communities in the middle of nowhere.

Lot size matters - for septic systems. Fresh Water cannot be contaminated.

[O3H]

Can all these politicians agree on clean water ?
Would they all vote for stricter , tighter guidelines, and Fines ?

[MikeM]

More importantly, can their constituency agree to pay for the necessary infrastructure?

[O3H]

That's where it all HAS to become Regional Focused for the greater good of all
Most communities simply can't take the infrastructure hit to fix stuff in their boundary

Snyder has this 21st century infrastructure team evaluation wanting everything in a database showing the assets and projects needed. Tech fixes nothing, its only a tool.

[O3H]

ANY drain connected to a river, stream, creek, ditch, channel, etc.
- will always find the level of the water connected to it



Regardless of the distance involved, the water finds its own level

When Clinton River is at FloodStage - so are the local Street Drains.



USGS Gauge Location is near 16 Mile and Garfield in Clinton Township

[Hermod]

Can all these politicians agree on clean water ?
Would they all vote for stricter , tighter guidelines, and Fines ?

All right, suppose the district lines were cleaned up without regard to the political boundaries so that the congressional districts had nice clean lines with as few odd shapes as possible. How would that affect the sewer situation in the area? What effect does the US Congress have on Michigan's sanitary sewers, storm sewers, and the obsolescent combination sewers which are still present in the area? What is the cost of rebuilding the sewer system in the tri-county area to have separate sanitary and storm water systems? In whose court is the ball? Is it the legislature? Is it the county drain commissioners? Is it DWSD? While I see the problem with the sewerage systems in the area, I do not see where the cause is gerrymandering of US Congressional districts in the area.

[O3H]

Many, many people could NOT tell you the boundaries of their district with their eyes closed - and second - Most don't have a clue where their toilet flushes towards - or - where their car wash suds from the driveway float away to.

Now you want these ignorant masses to VOTE on something ,
important to the region as a whole ? It's utter downright chaos .

I like what Lowell said

The ridiculous gerrymandering of our state and federal districts is just another symptom of a "its not our problem" thinking that ultimately hurts everyone.

An informed voter - is a great voter. Everything else just sucks !!!!

Grand Total from Oakland County 2017 [[3 months worth)
= 500 Million gallons of sewage overflow in Red Run Drain in WARREN !
Yep the oakland to macomb onslaught has begun with a bang.
Fouling the Clinton River [[fish anyone ?) and Lake St Clair shoreline
- they put the fish IN above Yates Cider Mill every year - because the fish leave

Wait till we get April showers and Spring storms
a billion = a thousand million -- and we'll see that soon - 1 BILLION gallons sewage

Think """"spray and pray""" - spray with chlorine, pray it stops raining = GWK Basin
12TownsDrain also has screens [[2 inch by 2 inch square) poop slides thru

That's the ""treatment"" the retention basin facility uses to ""treat"" the water
It is NOT, in any way shape, or form, a TRUE waste water treatment plant

https://redrundrain.files.wordpress....een-part-2.jpg

https://redrundrain.files.wordpress....een-part-1.jpg


http://www.deq.state.mi.us/csosso/ev...dSubmit=Submit


Done my homework - how well do you know your neighborhood drainage system ?
Do you think your politicians and representatives know ? I have my doubts

The DEQUINDRE borderline is the front line of a sewage war..................

[GMan]

This from Mlive http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/inde...art_river_home

Even localized sewage plants can't handle the heavy influx of rain with waste.

So do we build bigger under utilized local treatment plants that will encourage more sprawl in that area [[to spread the cost of the system size)... or...try to combine regions and transport the waste through greater sized interceptors to a regional plant for treatment? Both seem to have their problems and will still never be able to handle these concentrated heavy rains with out some sort of relief / discharge into an already overflowing watershed.

Civil Engineers???

[O3H]

How about FORCING the richest county - to actually fully treat its waste water ?
Then it only releases truly clean water in the Clinton River, instead of sewage overflow

Federally mandated, court ordered, separation of sewers for affluent Oakland county.
I'm amazed that Warren that doesn't get a Tax, a Fee, a Payment from GWK RTB.
There should be fines being paid, for the CSO Events, but is NOT enforced by EPA
The laws are on the books - but LBrooksP is a lawyer by trade, go figue......

[GMan]

How about FORCING the richest county - to actually fully treat its waste water ?
Then it only releases truly clean water in the Clinton River, instead of sewage overflow.......

Federally mandated, court ordered, separation of sewers for affluent Oakland county.......

I was under the impression that combined storm/waste sewers were mandated to be separated but like everything else there is a time / cost quotient to ease the financial burden of the municipalities.
If not then they should be. I doubt that will eliminate flooding of the Warren area but at least it should end raw sewage overflows.
Problem is we have built up in natural flood plains, [[hell that is half of what Michigan is, ) and have paved over natural drain ways.
A look at the DEQ website shows minimum standards a municipality must meet when building / operating a waste treatment plant.
Yes this is the same agency responsible for ignoring the Flint water crisis.