Hudson's Site Building Thread

[EGrant]

So the large cylinders at the site have been dropped all the way in the ground, assuming to bedrock. They put one in yesterday that was massive.

[Atticus]

So the large cylinders at the site have been dropped all the way in the ground, assuming to bedrock. They put one in yesterday that was massive.

Makes sense. In my younger days I worked on construction sites that used similar type cylinders [[though they were never close to the cylinder size in the Hudson project). Anyway, the purpose of these are basically to preserve the hole size for concrete pouring when the soil is wet and/or unstable... basically when the hole collapses in on itself as soon as it is drilled.

Often times, such as what happened last week, the cylinder would get stuck lowering it into place. The first solution was to vibrate or place weight on top, and hope the self weight of the cylinder would get it to go the rest of the way in. When that failed, we called in a company that basically vacuumed out the soil from the bottom that was preventing the cylinder from falling into place. Must have been a huge vacuum tube to get to the bottom of the Hudson cylinders.

[401don]

Yes GM had dropped the ball due to poor management that could not get any good retail in the Rencen. Starbucks should had been in the Wintergardens instead of next to the post office on the 3 floor. The Wintergardens is underutilized and could have more cafes and shops there

At various times, GM hired expert national leasing companies such as Taubman and Hines to lease the space, so if you have more expertise than them, have at it. I'm sure GM would happily fork over the commission.

[Danny]

Yes GM had dropped the ball due to poor management that could not get any good retail in the Rencen. Starbucks should had been in the Wintergardens instead of next to the post office on the 3 floor. The Wintergardens is underutilized and could have more cafes and shops there

Asiantown also was doomed to failure Asian culture community, too. Gilbert's Tower has his team of indeal investors of innovators. He did it with the pop up shops along Woodward Corridor during holiday of 2010. Look at it right now. John Varvatos, Lululemon, La Labo, Shinola, Nike Store, Under Armor, G-Star, Bonobos, San Mereno, and coming soon Salon Six and H&M!

[stasu1213]

At various times, GM hired expert national leasing companies such as Taubman and Hines to lease the space, so if you have more expertise than them, have at it. I'm sure GM would happily fork over the commission.

Spoken to employees at GM. They had to get rid of one management company because of their failure

[Gistok]

Spoken to employees at GM. They had to get rid of one management company because of their failure

"Talking to employees" is like using Wikipedia as a reference...

The Renaissance Center was managed by Gerald Hines Associates of Houston, one of the worlds leading property developers... they currently develop over 1,100 properties worldwide, with 454 million square feet of space. I wouldn't exactly say they failed in Detroit so much as the local market/economy failed to get the Renaissance Center marketable.

[sirrealone]

Having worked in the Ren Cen for a brief period right when the Wintergarden opened, it was pretty clear that the retail would struggle. The simple reason is that the Ren Cen simply doesn't attract people that aren't already there. Sure, you might have a few people come in here and there or from the River Walk, but it is and probably always will be isolated from the rest of downtown.

When it opened, I remember a store that sold luggage as one of the stores that opened in the Winter Garden. The first thing that I thought was that I couldn't see too many people that were coming to work going down and buying luggage. Not enough to keep a store in business. I'm guessing that store is long gone.

[scarecrow]

Starbucks should had been in the Wintergardens instead of next to the post office on the 3 floor.

Its much easier to visit that location when crossing over from City Hall/Millender center.

Theres also another one dead center. They also have a coffee beanery [[but its not a good one)

The addition of Panera has been good for that area though.

[Luke09]

I noticed on the videos this week that they resumed concrete demo at the base. It seems like another month or two until this starts to rise, but there does appear to be more rebar at the base and that's a good sign

[stasu1213]

That's part GMs job. Make the building a magnet for tourists and locals. I had suggested last year before the Dream Cruise that they put the older modeled classic cars in the newly renovated area. One one the gents in a white shirt and tie said that its not a good idea and they are trying to sell cars.

[southen]

The Ren Cen will remain the way that it does until you develop the lots along the East Riverfront. The more residents or workers you put in that area the more likely retail and restaurants will succeed at the Ren Cen. That stretch of Atwater needs to become more of a destination for people to spend an afternoon at as opposed to just walking the riverfront. More shops and restaurants, perhaps a plaza as was shown in the Amazon renderings, and you may have a critical mass that allows retail to flourish there.

[Gistok]

The retail part of the Renaissance Center would probably have done much better had the original plans been finished. It included 15 towers and waterfront residential space. Not sure if any of the lower towers were intended as residential as well.

[Dmberko11]

The retail part of the Renaissance Center would probably have done much better had the original plans been finished. It included 15 towers and waterfront residential space. Not sure if any of the lower towers were intended as residential as well.

I’m glad all those smaller towers didn’t get built. Looks like a bunch of piles of chips at a casino. All in! Not lol

[Gistok]

I’m glad all those smaller towers didn’t get built. Looks like a bunch of piles of chips at a casino. All in! Not lol

Well.... yes and no... what did they build instead on the site of those extra towers? ... just parking structures....

[stinkytofu]

Well.... yes and no... what did they build instead on the site of those extra towers? ... just parking structures....

Those look like go right up to the riverfront and there'd be no space between residential and office buildings. Guessing like Riverfront Towers, the "river walk" would possibly be just walking down Jefferson at that point?

[Zacha341]

Too many of those towers would have been detracting for the riverfront IMO. Awesome that you can see the main tower for miles!

[Gistok]

Too many of those towers would have been detracting for the riverfront IMO. Awesome that you can see the main tower for miles!

4 short towers on either side of the main 5 towers really wouldn't have been too bad [[they appear to only be about 15 stories tall, compared to the 22 stories of the 2 extra towers that actually got built)... although it's beyond me how they could have shoehorned 4 towers onto the side with the Tunnel entrance. And skipping the riverfront terraced residential units would have been best [[for the sake of the future Riverwalk).

[Zacha341]

Hmm, I'd not thought of it that way! It would also help if retail was open later downtown.

6PM is the usual roll-up-the-sidewalk time downtown retail still?

[EGrant]

New time lapse from Bedrock. Post also says ground level construction will begin in the spring.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B03d-jzBAOH/

[MrMichigan]

Hudson's site tower may not be the city's tallest after all, Bedrock says

https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...ng/1943037001/

[hybridy]

Hudson's site tower may not be the city's tallest after all, Bedrock says

https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...ng/1943037001/

Color me surprised

The pessimist inside thinks this is the beginning of the end. The shorter building will be built, but the tower won't happen.

How this will play out over 4-5 years:
- reduced activity on site - check
- delays announced - check
- scope reduced - check
- additional delay
- recession, quicken profits tank
- project on hold
- gilbert runs into additional health problems
- project shelved
- project cancelled

[detmsp]

"Until we settle with an [[hotel) operator, it's just going to be really difficult to project what that final height's going to be."

One possible interpretation of that quote is "we wanted to build a hotel of ____ size but no hotel operators think there's a market for a hotel that size".

Bummer about the observation deck being axed.

[Jason]

With the extra critical mass of the full Ren Cen development, it's not hard to imagine the Ren Cen today being a proper urban mall.

The temporary SEMTA commuter rail station could have been permanently built and connected to the Ren Cen. The reconstructed tunnel plaza [[although these are early models, the final drawings of the full version don't incorporate the tunnel) could have been done in such a way to make the tunnel bus more pleasant and more popular. The People Mover did get built. The streamlined road network could have been used to make a bus depot. Even without SEMTA's light rail [[that would have had a station on Jefferson in front of the Ren Cen), it would have been a transit hub.


I don't know what happened to make the plans fall apart. I'm not aware of any detailed written history. The residential portion WAS built, just in the form of Riverfront Towers [[Alfred Taubman and Max Fisher). 500 and 600 were built right after, and parking was built, but not in the form of the original podium.

I'd still like to someday see the parking garages demolished, and the Ren Cen extended, using the extensions to integrate better with Hart Plaza and Rivertown.

[Atticus]

"Until we settle with an [[hotel) operator, it's just going to be really difficult to project what that final height's going to be."

One possible interpretation of that quote is "we wanted to build a hotel of ____ size but no hotel operators think there's a market for a hotel that size".

Bummer about the observation deck being axed.

If I remember correctly, the leaked floor plan document showed the proposed observation deck floor[[s) having an abnormally tall height.... as in, the observation deck alone contributed significantly to the tower’s height. So my recollection is that even if everything else in that plan was built [[just without the observation deck floors), the height of the tower would drop to the low 800’s.

The remaining float is probably contingent on how many floors of hotel space is built. I am sure Bedrock could easily find a hotel operator to open a 150-250 room hotel. The question is if they can find a hotel operator who thinks the market is there for a 400-800 room operation. That is probably going to determine whether this thing ends up in the 650-700’ range, or 800’.

Sadly, I am guessing any hope of a 900’ height disappeared with the observation deck. Bummer, because Detroit could desperately use a structure in that range for marketing itself as the comeback city it hopes to be.

[Dmberko11]

Hudson's site tower may not be the city's tallest after all, Bedrock says

https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...ng/1943037001/

...beat me to it!! All depends on programming and IF they can get the hotel operator they want. Still will be a tall building but maybe not over 900 feet. Which is still okay. Hopefully it won’t delay construction. Personally I don’t mind if it’s not the city’s tallest. The latest rendering is nice and as long as it has maintains the same architectural tapering tower aspects the final height isn’t a biggie. At least 700 feet would be nice though