GM to plan move from RenCen to Dan Gilbert’s Hudson’s tower

[JonWylie]

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...s-hudsons-site

General Motors Co. is planning to move its downtown Detroit headquarters up Woodward Avenue to the Hudson’s building, a new 1.5 million-square-foot project being developed by billionaire Dan Gilbert, chairman of mortgage lender Rocket Cos. Inc.
For GM, the deal makes the automaker a long-term fixture in the revival of Detroit’s downtown, which Gilbert has been spearheading by acquiring and developing 45 major office, retail and hospitality properties. It also gives Gilbert an anchor tenant for the office portion of the $1.4 billion building.
GM Chief Executive Officer Mary Barra and Gilbert are hosting a press conference at the building at 4:30 p.m. Eastern time Monday, when they are expected to announce the move.

Big, big news

[stinkytofu]

Love it!

Going to help out the CBD a ton as the RenCen is essentially a fortress.

Now just make the RenCen apartments/condos [[maybe one tower for offices).

[stinkytofu]

With the demand for more hotels downtown, seems like converting one or two of the smaller RenCen towers into hotels would make a ton of sense.

Marriott probably wouldn't love it, but whatever.

[stasu1213]

I had predicted this in form of a question earlier on this site. I might as well get paid for my consultation on here

[stasu1213]

I think that the four towers at the RenCen should stay offices. Maybe Toyota, Tesla, Honda, or Mercedes could open offices in those towers. Let's make downtown Detroit global

[mikeg19]

It's a win for anyone who works down there at GM, moving into Grade A new office space from the dead zone Ren Cen. I'm hoping that this announcement of the Ren Cen redevelopment includes a plan now for the East Riverfront parking lots to be also developed into residential/office space.

[Scottathew]

This is huge. Even if it doesn't create new jobs downtown, it's still great to move jobs from the island into the real CBD.

[RAPLAS]

This is a huge and shocking but great news!

So I would assume...

1. Gilbert will do something with Ren Cen - Probably a hotel or residences.
2. For GM, 100% back to the office...

[Henry Whalley]

This is huge. Even if it doesn't create new jobs downtown, it's still great to move jobs from the island into the real CBD.

Ren Cen is a monstrosity. The architectural style is meant to make you feel like a peon or grain of sand in an ant farm.

[JBMcB]

1. Gilbert will do something with Ren Cen - Probably a hotel or residences.

Residences maybe. Converting a high-rise into apartments is pricey, you have to redo the water, fire, and HVAC systems, and possibly the electrical as well. My brother-in-law worked on a small-scale conversion, and he said they gutted everything inside and completely redid the entire building. It was a huge, expensive project, and the building was a fraction of the size of one of the renaissance center towers. It wouldn't be impossible, just an enormous, expensive undertaking.

I doubt the lease the Mariott has with the building would allow the building to rent out space to a competing hotel.

2. For GM, 100% back to the office...

Not quite. The Hudson site tower is smaller than GM's office space in the Renaissance Center. They shed quite a few people in the buyouts last year, and a good chunk of the workforce is still working hybrid, a couple days in the office and a couple days at home.

[Gistok]

I am nowhere near as excited about this than most of you. What does this mean?

1) I assume this means them moving into the block [[not the tower). That block has less than 1 million square feet of office space. Not exactly a signature building for a major HQ like GM. The RenCen was a powerful statement for GM to have as their signature HQ... the block... not so much.

2) does this mean that they can move more workers out to Warren, and still fill the Hudson's Block. That would be a negative as far as jobs in Detroit.

3) What about the RenCen, the 800 lb. gorilla? GM paid $78 million for it and the spent another $500 million in renovating it. Who is going to own it? What will it become?

4) the new GM HQ... no longer dominating the skyline... but now hidden among the low rise downtown buildings. A lack of prestige regardless of where it is located.

5) This is about as exciting as Comerica moving out of the former Comerica Tower [[now Ally Tower) over to their new Detroit HQ... 411 West Lafayette...

[Atticus]

I am nowhere near as excited about this than most of you. What does this mean?

1) I assume this means them moving into the block [[not the tower). That block has less than 1 million square feet of office space. Not exactly a signature building for a major HQ like GM. The RenCen was a powerful statement for GM to have as their signature HQ... the block... not so much.

2) does this mean that they can move more workers out to Warren, and still fill the Hudson's Block. That would be a negative as far as jobs in Detroit.

3) What about the RenCen, the 800 lb. gorilla? GM paid $78 million for it and the spent another $500 million in renovating it. Who is going to own it? What will it become?

4) the new GM HQ... no longer dominating the skyline... but now hidden among the low rise downtown buildings. A lack of prestige regardless of where it is located.

5) This is about as exciting as Comerica moving out of the former Comerica Tower [[now Ally Tower) over to their new Detroit HQ... 411 West Lafayette...

My take is more this….
GM is a car company. The best people for designing, engineering, and marketing cars are generally the people who drive cars, and live and practice the auto centric, aka suburban, lifestyle. For the health of GM, let’s stop pretending that the best people for designing vehicles are urbanists who take transit and live downtown without vehicles. For the health of the region and GM, it is probably best that many of those jobs remain in the suburbs, because frankly that is where the best people for doing those jobs want to live, generally speaking. I know that will be an unpopular take on DetroitYes, but it’s probably true.

Now obviously a company as big as GM is still going to have office workers at the executive, accounting, legal, etc roles that still may make sense at a downtown office. But there aren’t that many jobs in those particular roles at GM to fill up the RenCen space, and it probably makes sense to downsize office square footage. My guess is the Hudson block building is right sizing for the percentage of GM workforce that actually makes sense to work downtown, with the rest better relegated to working in suburban Warren.

[EASTSIDER BALDUCK]

GM or gm or whatever were morons doing the occupancy in the first place.
GM were morons with poletown now planet zero?

Jeez, what happened to them?
Split Pontiac/Chevy/Olds/Buick/Opel/Vauxhall/Holden divisions worked.
Matter of scale to each at the time would have.
They messed it up.
Eliminating divisions did not work.

I am not mentioning the imports or NA based erosion at all.


Now they are squirming, itching, twitchy? Cry me a river.
Mined you, my eyes are bleeding over this crap.

c

[EASTSIDER BALDUCK]

My take is more this….
GM is a car company. The best people for designing, engineering, and marketing cars are generally the people who drive cars, and live and practice the auto centric, aka suburban, lifestyle. For the health of GM, let’s stop pretending that the best people for designing vehicles are urbanists who take transit and live downtown without vehicles. For the health of the region and GM, it is probably best that many of those jobs remain in the suburbs, because frankly that is, generally speaking with obviously some exceptions, where the best people for doing those jobs want to live. I know that will be an unpopular take on DetroitYes, but it’s probably true.

Now obviously a company as big as GM is still going to have office workers at the executive, accounting, legal, etc roles that still may make sense at a downtown office. But there aren’t that many jobs in those roles to fill the RenCen, and it probably makes sense to downsize office square footage. My guess is the block building is right sizing for the percentage of GM workforce that actually makes sense to work downtown, as opposed to suburban Warren.

No! gm is a business NOT a "car" company.

[detmsp]

Residences maybe. Converting a high-rise into apartments is pricey, you have to redo the water, fire, and HVAC systems, and possibly the electrical as well. My brother-in-law worked on a small-scale conversion, and he said they gutted everything inside and completely redid the entire building. It was a huge, expensive project, and the building was a fraction of the size of one of the renaissance center towers. It wouldn't be impossible, just an enormous, expensive undertaking.

I doubt the lease the Mariott has with the building would allow the building to rent out space to a competing hotel.



Not quite. The Hudson site tower is smaller than GM's office space in the Renaissance Center. They shed quite a few people in the buyouts last year, and a good chunk of the workforce is still working hybrid, a couple days in the office and a couple days at home.

You can probably also add windows to the list of complexities/costs you've already mentioned. I think it's pretty rare to have an apartment where you can't open the windows... imagine how much it would cost to replace a few windows for every unit? I'm guessing they'd all have to be custom made too.

[Atticus]

You can probably also add windows to the list of complexities/costs you've already mentioned. I think it's pretty rare to have an apartment where you can't open the windows... imagine how much it would cost to replace a few windows for every unit? I'm guessing they'd all have to be custom made too.

Agree with this and the preceding post. Very expensive to do, and massive undertaking. Not as simple as just erecting some new apartment walls, and calling it habitable.

But… not impossible either.

And should it happen, which I think is more likely than finding office tenants to backfill all that space, downtown will gain a bunch more residential units for those who want to live a walkable urban lifestyle with great views of the river and the skyline. To me it’s still a win. It will take a while and be expensive to get there, but ultimately a net positive.

[mkd]

I am nowhere near as excited about this than most of you...

Completely agree, very surprised at the celebration of this announcement here...

[Gistok]

When GM bought the Rencen in the mid 1990s [[they paid $78 million, and sunk in another $500 million)... Ford occupied one of the towers, and shifted all 1,700 employees to Dearborn, leaving them with virtually no jobs in the city. Now when GM moves to the Hudson's block... how many more jobs will be lost to Warren as they downsize?

So every time the RenCen switches hands, it becomes a negative for downtown's office worker counts.

As for converting the towers to residential? That is not exactly a feeling of urban living. It's like living in a shopping center built to look like a labyrinth. Any costly conversion to residential will mean some very expensive living downtown... not just the expense of the conversion, but also the added cost of waterfront views. It will take years for that upmarket residential to get filled.

Also with GM moving out of the RenCen, the folks who own the 1400 room Marriott will not be pleased [although it won't matter for the convention crowd]... since the business clientele will want to have their overnight hotel stays closer to the offices they are visiting.

[K-slice]

I am nowhere near as excited about this than most of you.

Agree 100%, this is not a positive move for the City, region, or GM for all the reasons you listed above.

Ford is getting a new signature campus in the city. A vibrant space that they'll own and can point to for prestige.

GM is abandoning their signature campus, throwing in the towel after their half hearted attempts to make the Ren Cen viable.

[401don]

This is a huge and shocking but great news!

So I would assume...

1. Gilbert will do something with Ren Cen - Probably a hotel or residences.
2. For GM, 100% back to the office...

You could not be more wrong. Nobody wanted Hudson Site. Couldn't even attract a suburban company. There is a tiny amount of office space in Hudson's compared to Ren Cen. Gilbert won't touch Ren Cen, probably even for free.

[RAPLAS]

You could not be more wrong. Nobody wanted Hudson Site. Couldn't even attract a suburban company. There is a tiny amount of office space in Hudson's compared to Ren Cen. Gilbert won't touch Ren Cen, probably even for free.

Okay, sorry.

[RAPLAS]

Some renders revealed.

GM to move in 2025 with 15 years lease.

Press Release: https://www.bedrockdetroit.com/press...-headquarters/
- "GM, Bedrock, the city of Detroit and Wayne County will establish a partnership to explore redevelopment opportunities for the Renaissance Center site over approximately the next year, prior to GM’s move to Hudson’s Detroit."

[mwilbert]

I don't think it's good news, but it certainly has some upside. GM doesn't currently have enough employees at HQ to keep the RenCen ecosystem functioning well, and having those people at the Hudson's site will be better for the feel of downtown and for the businesses outside the RenCen than having them relatively isolated.

On the other hand, what the hell happens to the RenCen is a great question. The obvious thing is a residential conversion--those towers could be converted into spectacular residential units, but I have to think that the cost of the resulting units would probably be mind-blowing, and I find it hard to imagine that anyone going to do that with current Detroit rents and US interest rates. I imagine you could do one tower at a time, which makes it a bit more feasible, but even one tower is a huge project. So what becomes of the buildings while we wait for conditions to make redevelopment possible is an open and somewhat scary question.

[DetBill]

I am nowhere near as excited about this than most of you. What does this mean?

1) I assume this means them moving into the block [[not the tower). That block has less than 1 million square feet of office space. Not exactly a signature building for a major HQ like GM. The RenCen was a powerful statement for GM to have as their signature HQ... the block... not so much.

2) does this mean that they can move more workers out to Warren, and still fill the Hudson's Block. That would be a negative as far as jobs in Detroit.

3) What about the RenCen, the 800 lb. gorilla? GM paid $78 million for it and the spent another $500 million in renovating it. Who is going to own it? What will it become?

4) the new GM HQ... no longer dominating the skyline... but now hidden among the low rise downtown buildings. A lack of prestige regardless of where it is located.

5) This is about as exciting as Comerica moving out of the former Comerica Tower [[now Ally Tower) over to their new Detroit HQ... 411 West Lafayette...

I have to agree. I don’t think this is wonderful news by any means for downtown, what’s going to happen to the Marriott Tower Hotel ? It’s going to be this tower hotel with empty towers all around it surrounding it, it will not exactly be an destination/ attraction place for anyone wanting to book there . I hope Marriott stays in there, Detroit keeps crying, They need more hotel rooms and if Marriott were to cancel their contract, that would leave a huge deficit in rooms that are needed. Also, what’s going to happen to restaurants in there like Joe Muers, Andiamo, the top of the Marriott, and all the smaller places will obviously close , and what I’m hearing already is they’re not thrilled at all , they were not even warned about this.. we’re going to have these huge towers sitting vacant on the riverfront for a long period. I hope they at least leave the blue lights on at the top of the towers. Otherwise it’s going to look horrible on the skyline. Not thrilled about this at all.

[Burnsie]

... Ford occupied one of the towers, and shifted all 1,700 employees to Dearborn, leaving them with virtually no jobs in the city. Now when GM moves to the Hudson's block... how many more jobs will be lost to Warren as they downsize?

So every time the RenCen switches hands, it becomes a negative for downtown's office worker counts.

The GM RenCen purchase was initially good for downtown, as of 2003 GM had about 6,000 workers in there, about 600 more than what it had in the GM Building. One of the 39 story towers remained leased to other tenants. And the former subsidiary EDS was getting ready to move 1,500 people into Tower 500.

Admittedly it's laughable now to read the 1996 articles and GM speculating that it would eventually relocate up to 20,000 people to the RenCen.

In addition to the pandemic devastating GM's presence downtown, it's simply a smaller company than what it was 20 years ago.

It should've just moved back into Cadillac Place instead. Probably would've fit into all the excess space the state is trying to lease.