Hudson's Site Building Thread

[wazootyman]

It wasn't all that long ago that a good number of the buildings downtown were empty, near-empty or at least in dire need of renovation. There has been a tremendous amount of "new" space brought online as work has concluded on these properties. We had to dig out of a pretty major hole here. The progress downtown has been nothing short of incredible. Had things not gotten so bad in the 80's and 90's, I think you'd see a much different type of development over the last 10 years.

Chicago has issues with population loss, crime and corrupt government. So I don't think you can point to those issues as the reason we don't see the same kind of development.

Michigan and Metro Detroit are no longer losing population, by the way. We just aren't growing as fast as other regions.

[Metro25]

Unfortunately, Detroit has always played second fiddle to Chicago. You look at their downtown and it is full of new super tall development. Detroit has had a bad rap in national newspapers, but much of it is the residents fault.
The Devils Night arson was making international headlines, the bankruptcy of the city did not help, our massive population loss. The continued loss of Michigan's population and we are losing another congressman and will be down to 14 from 18 originally. Michigan is not growing much, will be over taken by Georgia after the 2020 census. Governor Witmer announcing that Michigan will take any and all immigrants to help reduce the outward flow of population. Michigan is #9 out of the top 15 states for residents wanting to leave. We cannot even get agreement on a plan to repair our infrastructure. What comes to mind is incompetence, disagreement and what good ever comes out of Lansing.

How is this off topic drivel relevant to this development? like seriously go dump this somewhere else. I click here for updates and it's always somebody complaining instead. Nobody is playing 2nd fiddle Chicago is just a bigger city. And if you're making comparisons Michigan is doing better than other peers especially Illinois which is in near collapse with debt and population loss right now but lets forget that and just inflate Michigan's problems instead.

[bigboat]

I love Michigan and Detroit and want both to succeed, but I just stated some facts and you have to admit, there are issues as to why the Hudsons Site and Monroe Block development is being scaled back or at least that is what we have been told. Ordinarily. developers don't break ground on a large development [[Monroe Blocks) and then pack up and go home.

[Gistok]

I love Michigan and Detroit and want both to succeed, but I just stated some facts and you have to admit, there are issues as to why the Hudsons Site and Monroe Block development is being scaled back or at least that is what we have been told. Ordinarily. developers don't break ground on a large development [[Monroe Blocks) and then pack up and go home.

Let's see... Gilbert is working on the new jails/courts site on E. Warren, the $303 million Book Tower/Bldg. restoration, and putting up the crane for the Hudson's block... so he's not telling us the final height... and you're already giving up on the Monroe Block because he's not working fast enough?

Maybe you need to keep in mind that he's already fixed up 100 downtown properties, and not worry about the sky falling in, until Detroit's newspapers say otherwise....

[Detroitdave]

This is great information, thanks for posting this. This gives us a good in-site into what is going on and how the site IS moving forward !
Enough of all of this here say, this is pretty good proof of what is really going on. It is moving forward , just not fast enough for some.
Thanks again !

https://detroitmi.gov/sites/detroitm...SONS%20NAC.pdf

I don't think this has been posted in here yet. Some new information.

[stasu1213]

Let's see... Gilbert is working on the new jails/courts site on E. Warren, the $303 million Book Tower/Bldg. restoration, and putting up the crane for the Hudson's block... so he's not telling us the final height... and you're already giving up on the Monroe Block because he's not working fast enough?

Maybe you need to keep in mind that he's already fixed up 100 downtown properties, and not worry about the sky falling in, until Detroit's newspapers say otherwise....

Gilbert is doing a wonderful job of bringing downtown back to glory. It is those other elements in Detroit that slow down the progress

[stasu1213]

Well, the Lions had been put out to pasture today with the loss to the Green Bay Packers. Next year will be the same as this year. The Lions will win the first two and fans will be discussing the Lion’s Super Bowl chances. Then in mid season the Lions start screwing up and the fans will quickly blame the coach or the management. Nobody blames the Ford family next season and the past 60 seasons that had been winless for the Lions especially since the Ford family had purchased them and refuses to let them go so that someone could make them a championship bound team. I will go to a Lions game just to see my favorite player or players on the opposing teams

[Luke09]

Unfortunately, Detroit has always played second fiddle to Chicago. You look at their downtown and it is full of new super tall development. Detroit has had a bad rap in national newspapers, but much of it is the residents fault.
The Devils Night arson was making international headlines, the bankruptcy of the city did not help, our massive population loss. The continued loss of Michigan's population and we are losing another congressman and will be down to 14 from 18 originally. Michigan is not growing much, will be over taken by Georgia after the 2020 census. Governor Witmer announcing that Michigan will take any and all immigrants to help reduce the outward flow of population. Michigan is #9 out of the top 15 states for residents wanting to leave. We cannot even get agreement on a plan to repair our infrastructure. What comes to mind is incompetence, disagreement and what good ever comes out of Lansing.

And Illinois is playing second fiddle to the rest of the nation. The skyscrapers in Chicago are mostly serving boomers moving in from the Chicago burbs, it's a trend that isn't sustainable with their crime, aging boomers and tax burden.

[313WX]

And Illinois is playing second fiddle to the rest of the nation. The skyscrapers in Chicago are mostly serving boomers moving in from the Chicago burbs, it's a trend that isn't sustainable with their crime, aging boomers and tax burden.

^^^Chicago and Illinois have their problems, but this comment is just plain ridiculous.

Why can't people talk about Detroit without trying to bring other cities down?

[Danny]

Gilbert is making an investment risk of building his tower in the Hudson. His skyscraper will be the beacon of the Detroit's Third renaissance. He got some buyers and other investors. He will not make an announcement about his secret plans until the time is right.

[angry_fred]

Gilbert is making an investment risk of building his tower in the Hudson. His skyscraper will be the beacon of the Detroit's Third renaissance. He got some buyers and other investors. He will not make an announcement about his secret plans until the time is right.

Is this speculation or do you know something that the rest of us don't?

[gthomas]

I have a speculation that the hotel will be "Four Season Hotel and Residence". The office podium will be "Amazon". Major retail will be "Apple store", J. Crew and a few other small retailer. The grocery store will be "Whole Foods Market".

[stasu1213]

My speculation is that this building will have in it’s Winter Garden type set up that GM didn’t want to have in their Winter Garden nor the whole complex. I would say that a real Farmer’s Market will be in the complex’s basement and restaurant’s, bakeries, Apple, and a few coffee shops may open inside the complex. GM has to be shaking in it’s boots anticipating the sucking sound that it will hear when businesses leave and go to the Hudson site

[401don]

My speculation is that this building will have in it’s Winter Garden type set up that GM didn’t want to have in their Winter Garden nor the whole complex. I would say that a real Farmer’s Market will be in the complex’s basement and restaurant’s, bakeries, Apple, and a few coffee shops may open inside the complex. GM has to be shaking in it’s boots anticipating the sucking sound that it will hear when businesses leave and go to the Hudson site

Yes. They don't want to lose that one remaining retailer.

[Gistok]

My speculation is that this building will have in it’s Winter Garden type set up that GM didn’t want to have in their Winter Garden nor the whole complex. I would say that a real Farmer’s Market will be in the complex’s basement and restaurant’s, bakeries, Apple, and a few coffee shops may open inside the complex. GM has to be shaking in it’s boots anticipating the sucking sound that it will hear when businesses leave and go to the Hudson site

Not sure I follow your logic. The RenCen Wintergarten was planned for all retail/restaurant, but failed. The Hudson's Wintergarten is on floors that are all office space.

[EGrant]

Based on Bedrock's track record, I doubt they'll be competing for Panera, Burger King, Andiamos, Zoup and others found in the RenCen

[SammyS]

I have a speculation that the hotel will be "Four Season Hotel and Residence". The office podium will be "Amazon". Major retail will be "Apple store", J. Crew and a few other small retailer. The grocery store will be "Whole Foods Market".

That’s a winning plan

[Dmberko11]

That’s a winning plan

Drool. Lol.
I want this for Detroit so bad! We can wish....

[stasu1213]

Not sure I follow your logic. The RenCen Wintergarten was planned for all retail/restaurant, but failed. The Hudson's Wintergarten is on floors that are all office space.

I had talked with an employee of the GM complex years ago who had informed me that GM’s management team had shut some retail out from even opening in the Wiinter Gardens. This was 10 years ago. We still don’t know the final design of the Hudson’s building. I think that any small restaurant or boutique will do better in it’s Winter Gardens, that if it decide to have one, due to it’s location. The RenCen’s failure is that it is an island off too itself. Unlike the World Trade Center in New York which had a mall in the basement or lower level of one of the towers, while the rest of New York had a thriving Midtown, Detroit had a failing retail district when the RenCen had it’s so called mall inside it’s complex. I don’t think that Burger King, McDonalds, or Panera Bread would relocate from the RenCen to move into the Hudson’s site but I would not be surprised if a Mcddonalds, Burger King, or even a National Coney Island will open and successfully operate out of the new Hudson’s Building.

[Jason]

They're not building this glitzy generational landmark just to put some dumpy fast food chains in it.

The Ren Cen is mostly full of meat and potatoes things that are of practical convenience to the 10,000+ workers and visitors who are at the complex. I think even the better restaurants mainly serve the function as high end food courts [[nicer places for workers to eat or to meet with clients).

At Hudsons, Bedrock will be looking to anchor their downtown retail district, and to reinforce the prestige of the project with popular brands.


I don't know how much of a threat Hudsons really is to the Ren Cen. Hudsons will be a more prestigious landmark but I think the Ren Cen will remain more iconic and visitor-friendly. The Ren Cen isn't really competing for the same kind of office tenant, and the Marriot is only a 3 star hotel so I don't think they're really competing for the same guests either. I'm guessing the Ren Cen ultimately benefits, because "rising tides lift all boats".

[gthomas]

I have a speculation that the hotel will be "Four Season Hotel and Residence". The office podium will be "Amazon". Major retail will be "Apple store", J. Crew and a few other small retailer. The grocery store will be "Whole Foods Market".

Oh and I can see "Sean Anderson Theatre" powered by Emagine in the Hudson for it's downtown location. Wishful thinking...

[Atticus]

They're not building this glitzy generational landmark just to put some dumpy fast food chains in it.

The Ren Cen is mostly full of meat and potatoes things that are of practical convenience to the 10,000+ workers and visitors who are at the complex. I think even the better restaurants mainly serve the function as high end food courts [[nicer places for workers to eat or to meet with clients).

At Hudsons, Bedrock will be looking to anchor their downtown retail district, and to reinforce the prestige of the project with popular brands.


I don't know how much of a threat Hudsons really is to the Ren Cen. Hudsons will be a more prestigious landmark but I think the Ren Cen will remain more iconic and visitor-friendly. The Ren Cen isn't really competing for the same kind of office tenant, and the Marriot is only a 3 star hotel so I don't think they're really competing for the same guests either. I'm guessing the Ren Cen ultimately benefits, because "rising tides lift all boats".

I generally agree. Ignoring all the snaz, the Hudson site is functionally office above retail [[plus event space) on the block site, & hotel and residential in the tower site. Neither should be a detriment to the RenCen, as the office space is not going to be GM related and competition for tenants, there is no Residential in the RenCen, and I agree with the rising tide comment as I think another hotel may actually be a good thing for the RenCen Marriott, as it will help Detroit attract more multi-hotel events to the city.

That all being said, with the Hudson Tower hotel... I actually hope it is not just a high end brand [[Four Seasons, Ritz, Waldorf, etc.). Reason being is that there is now a market again for such a brand to exist in Downtown Detroit, but if built, the business case is not there for such a brand to have a large number of rooms. Basically there is a market for a 125~ room Ritz/Four Seasons/etc, but not for 500 rooms. Most luxurious hotels are small in room numbers anyway. I also expect one of those brands [[or similar) to eventually open up in the renovated Book
Tower.

On the other hand, there is definitely a need and business case for another ~600 room 3/4-star hotel in downtown. [[I.e Hilton, Hyatt, JW Marriott, etc.). That is the hotel I hope goes in the Hudson Tower, or better yet paired with the luxury hotel described above. Simply put, I would like to see some height added to the skyline via the new tower, and a 600 room Hilton will result in a much taller Hudson tower than a 125 room Ritz Carlton. Hoping for height...

[EGrant]

IOn the other hand, there is definitely a need and business case for another ~600 room 3/4-star hotel in downtown. [[I.e Hilton, Hyatt, JW Marriott, etc.). That is the hotel I hope goes in the Hudson Tower, or better yet paired with the luxury hotel described above. Simply put, I would like to see some height added to the skyline via the new tower, and a 600 room Hilton will result in a much taller Hudson tower than a 125 room Ritz Carlton. Hoping for height...

That's what the JW/Ritz downtown LA is. They even share a lobby and pool.

[stasu1213]

Oh and I can see "Sean Anderson Theatre" powered by Emagine in the Hudson for it's downtown location. Wishful thinking...

Wow. That would be a great place to open an Emagine or MJR Theatre being that Detroit doesn’t have a real movie theatre within it’s borders any longer. The very smaller makeshift theatres doesn’t count. I could see the foot traffic

[stasu1213]

I generally agree. Ignoring all the snaz, the Hudson site is functionally office above retail [[plus event space) on the block site, & hotel and residential in the tower site. Neither should be a detriment to the RenCen, as the office space is not going to be GM related and competition for tenants, there is no Residential in the RenCen, and I agree with the rising tide comment as I think another hotel may actually be a good thing for the RenCen Marriott, as it will help Detroit attract more multi-hotel events to the city.

That all being said, with the Hudson Tower hotel... I actually hope it is not just a high end brand [[Four Seasons, Ritz, Waldorf, etc.). Reason being is that there is now a market again for such a brand to exist in Downtown Detroit, but if built, the business case is not there for such a brand to have a large number of rooms. Basically there is a market for a 125~ room Ritz/Four Seasons/etc, but not for 500 rooms. Most luxurious hotels are small in room numbers anyway. I also expect one of those brands [[or similar) to eventually open up in the renovated Book
Tower.

On the other hand, there is definitely a need and business case for another ~600 room 3/4-star hotel in downtown. [[I.e Hilton, Hyatt, JW Marriott, etc.). That is the hotel I hope goes in the Hudson Tower, or better yet paired with the luxury hotel described above. Simply put, I would like to see some height added to the skyline via the new tower, and a 600 room Hilton will result in a much taller Hudson tower than a 125 room Ritz Carlton. Hoping for height...

Book Tower has great potential but I see a boutique hotel opening in the Book Tower or it having apartment lofts like apartments which includes the fire escapes as some type of decks for the adjacent apartment lofts