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  1. #1326

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLemur View Post
    He's obviously done a lot for Detroit and guess what? He plans on making a ton of money in it. This has been a business decision for profit. I'm glad he made it. He's been instrumental to downtown's turnaround and should be praised for it.
    Yet the things you mention, we're evident BEFORE yhe incentives we're finalized. Thus, did government incentivize a project for Gilbert's past investment and not the actual Hudson's project and Monroe? Is that ok or sound policy?
    This topic is the headline story of today's Free Press.

    Gilbert promised, officials believed
    Experts: Usual real estate procedures not followed

    I'm not comfortable with procedures not being followed, but there is a bit of a "the proof is in the pudding" argument. For instance the lead paragraph reads.
    Businessman Dan Gilbert's organization persuaded Detroit and state officials to give his development companies free land and hundreds of millions of dollars in tax incentives by promising to turn downtown into a walkable urban center with public plazas and a skyscraper that would be a “landmark destination.”
    That pudding today looks like what was promised, even better. After decades of squatter speculators dominating a downtown ghost town am I going to get my panties in a bunch over some rules getting bent and the pudding-maker making some money, even a lot of money? No. If anything I get a little burned over the speculators who cleaned house due to Gilbert's investments that gave value to their blighted ruins. Ilitch's? Hello?

  2. #1327

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexlin View Post
    BTW, a reminder of what the "Block" portion is going to look like:

    That is an old rendering with the old tower. You can go to the Hudson's website to see what the current iteration is.

  3. #1328

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    Quote Originally Posted by southen View Post
    That is an old rendering with the old tower. You can go to the Hudson's website to see what the current iteration is.
    The low-rise portion has not changed since that rendering, only the tower portion, and I was only talking about the Block, anyway.

  4. #1329

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexlin View Post
    The low-rise portion has not changed since that rendering, only the tower portion, and I was only talking about the Block, anyway.
    Except it has though. It has increased in height adding another floor of office space as well as a set back floor on top of that. The glass has changed as well on the office floors and there is now plans for a pedestrian bridge between the structures.

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  5. #1330

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGrant View Post
    ILKSGAMI, you are a legend.
    Thanks, my wife just calls me obsessed lol.

  6. #1331

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    Have they officially said this will not be taller than the REN Cen? Very sad if that is the case. I thought seeing a new true skyscraper built would show to the city, state, and world that Detroit is BACK... Wonder if the legislature will claw back funds if the skyscraper is cancelled...

  7. #1332

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    No, there has been no definitive word from Bedrock about what the ultimate height will be. It depends on what hotels they are able to land. This isn't being cancelled; you don't build a foundation costing millions-and-millions of dollars to support a skyscraper like this to have nothing built. Gilbert is not the kind of dude to spend the kind of money he already spent just to keep up appearances. You don't drill 150 caissons ranging in size from 5-to-7 feet in diameter 120-140 feet down to bedrock to keep up appearances.






    At this point the question is as to the exact programming and height of the tower. It might be lower than the RenCen, it might not. They'll let us know either when they file the with the FAA like we just learned about the Block, or maybe they'll let us know before then.
    Last edited by Dexlin; September-08-19 at 09:46 PM.

  8. #1333

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    Quote Originally Posted by Detroit500 View Post
    Have they officially said this will not be taller than the REN Cen? Very sad if that is the case. I thought seeing a new true skyscraper built would show to the city, state, and world that Detroit is BACK... Wonder if the legislature will claw back funds if the skyscraper is cancelled...
    That's the thing.

    They haven't officially confirmed one way or another, other than to strongly imply the height could be reduced due to circumstances around securing tenants.

  9. #1334

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    It does seem like some of the exhibit space and even the large open retail spaces are luxuries that could be reduced.

  10. #1335

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    ILKSGAMI, thanks so much for the information. It's the first real, interesting news we've had in this thread for a while

  11. #1336

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    Quote Originally Posted by 401don View Post
    It does seem like some of the exhibit space and even the large open retail spaces are luxuries that could be reduced.
    Could this possibly be for NAIAS? Would be an amazing venue

  12. #1337

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    Do you know what kind of rock/earth those footings go 120 feet into?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dexlin View Post
    No, there has been no definitive word from Bedrock about what the ultimate height will be. It depends on what hotels they are able to land. This isn't being cancelled; you don't build a foundation costing millions-and-millions of dollars to support a skyscraper like this to have nothing built. Gilbert is not the kind of dude to spend the kind of money he already spent just to keep up appearances. You don't drill 150 caissons ranging in size from 5-to-7 feet in diameter 120-140 feet down to bedrock to keep up appearances.






    At this point the question is as to the exact programming and height of the tower. It might be lower than the RenCen, it might not. They'll let us know either when they file the with the FAA like we just learned about the Block, or maybe they'll let us know before then.

  13. #1338

  14. #1339

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    I hope those links work. They appear to point to search results, so I'm not certain they'll continue to be active. But here's hoping...

  15. #1340

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    Quote Originally Posted by wazootyman View Post
    With credit to the gentleman on the September 9th YouTube video that gave the tip, it appears there are 10 FAA proposals are now "a work in progress". Many of the details are missing, but it might interesting to watch
    Soooo, I would like to think that the gentleman in the YouTube video actually got his source right here on Detroit Yes! Thanks for posting all of the links in one place - I was a little too lazy haha also, if you go back a page, I mapped them all out so you can see the outline of the block portion of the building
    Last edited by ILKSGAMI; September-09-19 at 07:49 PM. Reason: Clarification

  16. #1341

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    Quote Originally Posted by ILKSGAMI View Post
    Soooo, I would like to think that the gentleman in the YouTube video actually got his source right here on Detroit Yes! Thanks for posting all of the links in one place - I was a little too lazy haha also, if you go back a page, I mapped them all out so you can see the outline of the block portion of the building
    Oh wow, I completely missed your post. I swear I looked back to see if anyone had posted this already, and I'm not sure how I could miss that.

    Great work - and thank you! I had thought about doing the same, but you were way ahead of me and did a nice job.

  17. #1342

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    I'm surprised the local media hasn't picked up on this excellent nugget. It's been fairly clear that a few media members have been lurking here in the past.

  18. #1343

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGrant View Post
    I'm surprised the local media hasn't picked up on this excellent nugget. It's been fairly clear that a few media members have been lurking here in the past.
    Because it's essentially reading tea leaves.

    The fact that permits have been requested for a certain crane height doesn't mean they will actually have a need to go that high.

  19. #1344

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    Because it's essentially reading tea leaves
    Not always... sometimes folks who work on some of the development projects anonymously divulge advance info on this forum.

  20. #1345

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post

    The fact that permits have been requested for a certain crane height doesn't mean they will actually have a need to go that high.
    I'll agree with you on the crane height, but what about the permits for the building itself? It seems odd that one would request an obstruction evaluation for something different than the actual building height. Especially with the details of a step-up from 190 to 225 feet

  21. #1346

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    Because it's essentially reading tea leaves.
    To be fair they had no problem reading the tea leaves when Bedrock employees were just trying to dodge prying questions.

  22. #1347

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    Quote Originally Posted by ILKSGAMI View Post
    I'll agree with you on the crane height, but what about the permits for the building itself? It seems odd that one would request an obstruction evaluation for something different than the actual building height. Especially with the details of a step-up from 190 to 225 feet
    There have been plenty of times where developers file permits for a project and they expire or the final product ends up smaller in scope than what they requested permission for.

    But if nothing else, what the permits do prove is that the project isn't dead and Gilbert still intends to build *something* on the site.

  23. #1348

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro25 View Post
    To be fair they had no problem reading the tea leaves when Bedrock employees were just trying to dodge prying questions.
    That wasn't reading tea leaves, that was growing a tea tree and asking leading questions about the tree.

  24. #1349

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro25 View Post
    To be fair they had no problem reading the tea leaves when Bedrock employees were just trying to dodge prying questions.
    The title in that Freep article was a bit click-baity (I'll give you that), but the article itself featured direct quotes from Bedrock themselves confirming that the final height for the project could change.

  25. #1350

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    There have been plenty of times where developers file permits for a project and they expire or the final product ends up smaller in scope than what they requested permission for.

    But if nothing else, what the permits do prove is that the project isn't dead and Gilbert still intends to build *something* on the site.

    Not saying that this is the case here but we used to pull permits just to buy time from the city,cheap way of looking like you are doing something.

    A crane is not the same height as the building that is being constructed,it can be 15-20 feet higher depending on what they are lifting.

    The only thing you can really tell from the FAA permit is that it is high enough to warrant a blinking light that could be a aircraft hazard.

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