Hudson's Site Building Thread

[Detroit500]

Have they officially said this will not be taller than the REN Cen? Very sad if that is the case. I thought seeing a new true skyscraper built would show to the city, state, and world that Detroit is BACK... Wonder if the legislature will claw back funds if the skyscraper is cancelled...

[Dexlin]

No, there has been no definitive word from Bedrock about what the ultimate height will be. It depends on what hotels they are able to land. This isn't being cancelled; you don't build a foundation costing millions-and-millions of dollars to support a skyscraper like this to have nothing built. Gilbert is not the kind of dude to spend the kind of money he already spent just to keep up appearances. You don't drill 150 caissons ranging in size from 5-to-7 feet in diameter 120-140 feet down to bedrock to keep up appearances.






At this point the question is as to the exact programming and height of the tower. It might be lower than the RenCen, it might not. They'll let us know either when they file the with the FAA like we just learned about the Block, or maybe they'll let us know before then.

[313WX]

Have they officially said this will not be taller than the REN Cen? Very sad if that is the case. I thought seeing a new true skyscraper built would show to the city, state, and world that Detroit is BACK... Wonder if the legislature will claw back funds if the skyscraper is cancelled...

That's the thing.

They haven't officially confirmed one way or another, other than to strongly imply the height could be reduced due to circumstances around securing tenants.

[401don]

It does seem like some of the exhibit space and even the large open retail spaces are luxuries that could be reduced.

[Scottathew]

ILKSGAMI, thanks so much for the information. It's the first real, interesting news we've had in this thread for a while

[SammyS]

It does seem like some of the exhibit space and even the large open retail spaces are luxuries that could be reduced.

Could this possibly be for NAIAS? Would be an amazing venue

[DeLemur]

Do you know what kind of rock/earth those footings go 120 feet into?

No, there has been no definitive word from Bedrock about what the ultimate height will be. It depends on what hotels they are able to land. This isn't being cancelled; you don't build a foundation costing millions-and-millions of dollars to support a skyscraper like this to have nothing built. Gilbert is not the kind of dude to spend the kind of money he already spent just to keep up appearances. You don't drill 150 caissons ranging in size from 5-to-7 feet in diameter 120-140 feet down to bedrock to keep up appearances.






At this point the question is as to the exact programming and height of the tower. It might be lower than the RenCen, it might not. They'll let us know either when they file the with the FAA like we just learned about the Block, or maybe they'll let us know before then.

[wazootyman]

With credit to the gentleman on the September 9th YouTube video that gave the tip, it appears there are 10 FAA proposals are now "a work in progress". Many of the details are missing, but it might interesting to watch:

• https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external...6244720&row=15
• https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external...6243348&row=16
• https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external...6118611&row=17
• https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external...6118610&row=18
• https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external...6118607&row=19
• https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external...16118606&row=0
• https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external...16118603&row=1
• https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external...16118599&row=2
• https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external...16118598&row=3
• https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external...16118597&row=4

[wazootyman]

I hope those links work. They appear to point to search results, so I'm not certain they'll continue to be active. But here's hoping...

[ILKSGAMI]

With credit to the gentleman on the September 9th YouTube video that gave the tip, it appears there are 10 FAA proposals are now "a work in progress". Many of the details are missing, but it might interesting to watch

Soooo, I would like to think that the gentleman in the YouTube video actually got his source right here on Detroit Yes! Thanks for posting all of the links in one place - I was a little too lazy haha also, if you go back a page, I mapped them all out so you can see the outline of the block portion of the building

[wazootyman]

Soooo, I would like to think that the gentleman in the YouTube video actually got his source right here on Detroit Yes! Thanks for posting all of the links in one place - I was a little too lazy haha also, if you go back a page, I mapped them all out so you can see the outline of the block portion of the building

Oh wow, I completely missed your post. I swear I looked back to see if anyone had posted this already, and I'm not sure how I could miss that.

Great work - and thank you! I had thought about doing the same, but you were way ahead of me and did a nice job.

[EGrant]

I'm surprised the local media hasn't picked up on this excellent nugget. It's been fairly clear that a few media members have been lurking here in the past.

[313WX]

I'm surprised the local media hasn't picked up on this excellent nugget. It's been fairly clear that a few media members have been lurking here in the past.

Because it's essentially reading tea leaves.

The fact that permits have been requested for a certain crane height doesn't mean they will actually have a need to go that high.

[Gistok]

Because it's essentially reading tea leaves

Not always... sometimes folks who work on some of the development projects anonymously divulge advance info on this forum.

[ILKSGAMI]

The fact that permits have been requested for a certain crane height doesn't mean they will actually have a need to go that high.

I'll agree with you on the crane height, but what about the permits for the building itself? It seems odd that one would request an obstruction evaluation for something different than the actual building height. Especially with the details of a step-up from 190 to 225 feet

[Metro25]

Because it's essentially reading tea leaves.

To be fair they had no problem reading the tea leaves when Bedrock employees were just trying to dodge prying questions.

[313WX]

I'll agree with you on the crane height, but what about the permits for the building itself? It seems odd that one would request an obstruction evaluation for something different than the actual building height. Especially with the details of a step-up from 190 to 225 feet

There have been plenty of times where developers file permits for a project and they expire or the final product ends up smaller in scope than what they requested permission for.

But if nothing else, what the permits do prove is that the project isn't dead and Gilbert still intends to build *something* on the site.

[EGrant]

To be fair they had no problem reading the tea leaves when Bedrock employees were just trying to dodge prying questions.

That wasn't reading tea leaves, that was growing a tea tree and asking leading questions about the tree.

[313WX]

To be fair they had no problem reading the tea leaves when Bedrock employees were just trying to dodge prying questions.

The title in that Freep article was a bit click-baity [[I'll give you that), but the article itself featured direct quotes from Bedrock themselves confirming that the final height for the project could change.

[Richard]

There have been plenty of times where developers file permits for a project and they expire or the final product ends up smaller in scope than what they requested permission for.

But if nothing else, what the permits do prove is that the project isn't dead and Gilbert still intends to build *something* on the site.

Not saying that this is the case here but we used to pull permits just to buy time from the city,cheap way of looking like you are doing something.

A crane is not the same height as the building that is being constructed,it can be 15-20 feet higher depending on what they are lifting.

The only thing you can really tell from the FAA permit is that it is high enough to warrant a blinking light that could be a aircraft hazard.

[bigboat]

The Vista Tower [[1192') in Chicago has completed framing in April of this year and the Central Park Tower [[1550') in New York city has also completed framing in April. You Tube video of the Vista Tower construction activity is what I would envision as our Hudsons site to look, own personal opinion is Bedrock realized there could be a recession coming and maybe the Detroit market for very expensive condo and or apartments does not have a great enough demand to justify our building to be residential only, hence the need now for another portion to be a hotel of some sort. I believe the decision is close as the framing of the podium is scheduled to start this fall. Bedrock will have to make a decision soon enough as you just cannot change your mind about your steel framing order and expect the supplier to react overnight.

[401don]

Maybe there just isn't the demand for a 4-5 star hotel downtown that we think is needed. Ilitch promised a hotel near the LCA [[I know, I know it's Ilitch) but I'm certain they would like a premier hotel near the arena and ballpark. There have been stories a couple of years ago about The Westin struggling as well. Despite the growth of Quicken's companies there still are very few medium to large corporations downtown that require business travellers with healthy expense accounts.

[313WX]

Maybe there just isn't the demand for a 4-5 star hotel downtown that we think is needed. Ilitch promised a hotel near the LCA [[I know, I know it's Ilitch) but I'm certain they would like a premier hotel near the arena and ballpark. There have been stories a couple of years ago about The Westin struggling as well. Despite the growth of Quicken's companies there still are very few medium to large corporations downtown that require business travellers with healthy expense accounts.

Who thought otherwise that isn't living in a fantasy world?

[Metro25]

Maybe there just isn't the demand for a 4-5 star hotel downtown that we think is needed. Ilitch promised a hotel near the LCA [[I know, I know it's Ilitch) but I'm certain they would like a premier hotel near the arena and ballpark. There have been stories a couple of years ago about The Westin struggling as well. Despite the growth of Quicken's companies there still are very few medium to large corporations downtown that require business travellers with healthy expense accounts.

What stories about the Westin? I've never heard of the Westin struggling. It doesn't have to be a 5 star hotel and I don't think it's intended to either, I think Shinola has that ultra luxury niche covered which is why they built it. The Ilitches are scammers. They're the last developer you could hold up as some kind of litmus test.

The fact is Detroit hotel vacancy rates are some of the lowest in the country and demand for hotels and business meeting space is extremely high which is the opposite of what you're trying to say might be. I think the hotel portion is the least likely thing to be skeptical about.

[313WX]

Despite flurry of projects, large-scale hotel eludes Detroit

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...eludes-detroit