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  1. #1351

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    The Vista Tower (1192') in Chicago has completed framing in April of this year and the Central Park Tower (1550') in New York city has also completed framing in April. You Tube video of the Vista Tower construction activity is what I would envision as our Hudsons site to look, own personal opinion is Bedrock realized there could be a recession coming and maybe the Detroit market for very expensive condo and or apartments does not have a great enough demand to justify our building to be residential only, hence the need now for another portion to be a hotel of some sort. I believe the decision is close as the framing of the podium is scheduled to start this fall. Bedrock will have to make a decision soon enough as you just cannot change your mind about your steel framing order and expect the supplier to react overnight.

  2. #1352

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    Maybe there just isn't the demand for a 4-5 star hotel downtown that we think is needed. Ilitch promised a hotel near the LCA (I know, I know it's Ilitch) but I'm certain they would like a premier hotel near the arena and ballpark. There have been stories a couple of years ago about The Westin struggling as well. Despite the growth of Quicken's companies there still are very few medium to large corporations downtown that require business travellers with healthy expense accounts.

  3. #1353

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    Quote Originally Posted by 401don View Post
    Maybe there just isn't the demand for a 4-5 star hotel downtown that we think is needed. Ilitch promised a hotel near the LCA (I know, I know it's Ilitch) but I'm certain they would like a premier hotel near the arena and ballpark. There have been stories a couple of years ago about The Westin struggling as well. Despite the growth of Quicken's companies there still are very few medium to large corporations downtown that require business travellers with healthy expense accounts.
    Who thought otherwise that isn't living in a fantasy world?

  4. #1354

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    Quote Originally Posted by 401don View Post
    Maybe there just isn't the demand for a 4-5 star hotel downtown that we think is needed. Ilitch promised a hotel near the LCA (I know, I know it's Ilitch) but I'm certain they would like a premier hotel near the arena and ballpark. There have been stories a couple of years ago about The Westin struggling as well. Despite the growth of Quicken's companies there still are very few medium to large corporations downtown that require business travellers with healthy expense accounts.
    What stories about the Westin? I've never heard of the Westin struggling. It doesn't have to be a 5 star hotel and I don't think it's intended to either, I think Shinola has that ultra luxury niche covered which is why they built it. The Ilitches are scammers. They're the last developer you could hold up as some kind of litmus test.

    The fact is Detroit hotel vacancy rates are some of the lowest in the country and demand for hotels and business meeting space is extremely high which is the opposite of what you're trying to say might be. I think the hotel portion is the least likely thing to be skeptical about.

  5. #1355

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    Despite flurry of projects, large-scale hotel eludes Detroit

    https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...eludes-detroit

  6. #1356

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    ^That article doesn't contradict what I said. Now would be a great time for a large scale hotel especial if it's a partner with Bedrock which is mentioned in there. I don't see how any of this is a fantasy.

  7. #1357

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro25 View Post
    What stories about the Westin? I've never heard of the Westin struggling.
    I concur... the Westin Renaissance Center was not struggling. It just so happens that when GM bought the RenCen back 20 or so years ago... one of the members of the GM board was the Chairman of Marriott Corp. And he used his influence on the GM Board of Directors to boot Westin out of the RenCen, and replace it with a Marriott Hotel.

  8. #1358

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro25 View Post
    ^That article doesn't contradict what I said. Now would be a great time for a large scale hotel especial if it's a partner with Bedrock which is mentioned in there. I don't see how any of this is a fantasy.
    If developers thought the market was there, they would be tripping over themselves to build more "large scale" hotels.

    Obviously, even if there's a room shortage on paper, the numbers still aren't there for them to see such projects as profitable yet when accounting for the costs they would have to incur, and also the prospects of a recession approaching (thus tightening credit).

    It's the same reason why home builders aren't tripping over themselves to build a ton of houses in much of the country despite the apparent supply crunch.
    Last edited by 313WX; September-14-19 at 03:15 PM.

  9. #1359

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    Detroit doesn't have the clout yet to get as 5 star hotel downtown. Get downtown, midtown, together first including the Jefferson strip from downtown to Belle Isle then Detroit could lure these 5 star chains to it. I remember what the late Tony Goldman had said when he spoke in Detroit a few years back; Detroit should not try to be a metropolis.

  10. #1360

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    Quote Originally Posted by stasu1213 View Post
    Detroit doesn't have the clout yet to get as 5 star hotel downtown. Get downtown, midtown, together first including the Jefferson strip from downtown to Belle Isle then Detroit could lure these 5 star chains to it. I remember what the late Tony Goldman had said when he spoke in Detroit a few years back; Detroit should not try to be a metropolis.
    Iíve got some positive news for people on this thread. Detroitís clout IS coming back. I talk to many different people from around the country. Most of whom are in the information technology realm and theyíve got money and travel. And this one man in particular was singing Detroitís praises and telling me about his recent visit there. So Detroit is coming back! Be encouraged. I live in Austin btw. Itís called Silicon Hills because itís very much like Silicon Valley in CA. Every tech company is here. I was just so happy to hear an outsider say that about Detroit

  11. #1361

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmberko11 View Post
    Iíve got some positive news for people on this thread. Detroitís clout IS coming back. I talk to many different people from around the country. Most of whom are in the information technology realm and theyíve got money and travel. And this one man in particular was singing Detroitís praises and telling me about his recent visit there. So Detroit is coming back! Be encouraged. I live in Austin btw. Itís called Silicon Hills because itís very much like Silicon Valley in CA. Every tech company is here. I was just so happy to hear an outsider say that about Detroit
    most people outside of the region have nice things to say about Detroit, it is people here who carry the negativity

  12. #1362

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    If developers thought the market was there, they would be tripping over themselves to build more "large scale" hotels.

    Obviously, even if there's a room shortage on paper, the numbers still aren't there for them to see such projects as profitable yet when accounting for the costs they would have to incur, and also the prospects of a recession approaching (thus tightening credit).
    I see what you're saying but that doesn't apply to this project since it isn't just any regular developer looking for fast return. It's bedrock and they're playing the long investment game and putting up the majority of the financing. I don't see why they wouldn't be able to land a major hotel tenant.

  13. #1363

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    Exactly!!! Most people Iíve spoken with, when they ask where I grew up and eventually it comes out that Iím from Detroitís suburbs they donít have a bad reaction. In fact it gets conversation going and positive things are usually said about the city. I was born and raised in Milford out in Oakland county. Lived in Dearborn heights off of Telegraph and Ford Rd. for a bit too. My dad was born in Detroit in Ď48. He moved as soon as he could lol. I canít imagine why (Ď67 riots...).

  14. #1364

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmberko11 View Post
    Exactly!!! I was born and raised in Milford out in Oakland county. Lived in Dearborn heights off of Telegraph and Ford Rd. for a bit too. My dad was born in Detroit in ‘48. He moved as soon as he could lol. I can’t imagine why (‘67 riots...).
    I was born in Royal Oak in 1972. Grew up in Ferndale and Troy. My family moved south (Memphis area) when I was 14. But I came back to Michigan 2-3 times a year for visits. Even lived on Mackinac Island in 1993 as I worked for Mission Point Resort as a dock porter. I lived the last three years in Denver. Just this year I moved back to the Detroit area. Ended up in Madison Heights.. mainly because I adore my native SE Oakland County but I cannot comfortably afford Ferndale, Berkley, Huntington Woods, Pleasant Ridge, Royal Oak, Birmingham or Clawson. Quick sidenote.. Madison Heights and Hazel Park are all that's left on the affordability front in this corner of the county.

    I travel nationwide over 100 days per year for work. I could live anywhere in the country. I chose metro Detroit. And I don't want to live anywhere else.

  15. #1365

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeightonGeo View Post
    I was born in Royal Oak in 1972. Grew up in Ferndale and Troy. My family moved south (Memphis area) when I was 14. But I came back to Michigan 2-3 times a year for visits. Even lived on Mackinac Island in 1993 as I worked for Mission Point Resort as a dock porter. I lived the last three years in Denver. Just this year I moved back to the Detroit area. Ended up in Madison Heights.. mainly because I adore my native SE Oakland County but I cannot comfortably afford Ferndale, Berkley, Huntington Woods, Pleasant Ridge, Royal Oak, Birmingham or Clawson. Quick sidenote.. Madison Heights and Hazel Park are all that's left on the affordability front in this corner of the county.

    I travel nationwide over 100 days per year for work. I could live anywhere in the country. I chose metro Detroit. And I don't want to live anywhere else.
    Thanks for sharing! Metro Detroit still feels like home every time I go back. I may have to buy real estate there one of these days while it's still cheap (compared to elsewhere in the country).

    That's pretty unique that you lived on Mackinac Island. Only got to visit as a toddler, crossing over on the fairy. I love Michigan. Up north is truly beautiful and so refereshing and southeast Michigan has everything you want in a metro area with a nice airport and now a resurgent downtown Detroit. Now if only the Detroit sports teams were to turn around, lol. Lions gave us a very Lion-esque win today. Can't beat that!

  16. #1366

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    This is veering wildly off-topic, but I think people from the area are more "cynical" about Detroit because we are more aware of the real problems in the region. Lack of transit, issues with the education system, high auto insurance, crime, an auto-dependent economy, etc. Outsiders get to read nice fuzzy stories from the New York Times about new restaurants once or twice a year and maybe visit to see the highlights, but that isn't reality.

    There's a lot to be excited about in Detroit, including the possibility of the tallest building in Michigan, but we're also still trying to recover from deep economic, racial and infrastructure issues from over 70 years ago.

  17. #1367

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGrant View Post
    This is veering wildly off-topic, but I think people from the area are more "cynical" about Detroit because we are more aware of the real problems in the region. Lack of transit, issues with the education system, high auto insurance, crime, an auto-dependent economy, etc. Outsiders get to read nice fuzzy stories from the New York Times about new restaurants once or twice a year and maybe visit to see the highlights, but that isn't reality.

    There's a lot to be excited about in Detroit, including the possibility of the tallest building in Michigan, but we're also still trying to recover from deep economic, racial and infrastructure issues from over 70 years ago.
    Well put...

  18. #1368

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGrant View Post
    This is veering wildly off-topic, but I think people from the area are more "cynical" about Detroit because we are more aware of the real problems in the region. Lack of transit, issues with the education system, high auto insurance, crime, an auto-dependent economy, etc. Outsiders get to read nice fuzzy stories from the New York Times about new restaurants once or twice a year and maybe visit to see the highlights, but that isn't reality.

    There's a lot to be excited about in Detroit, including the possibility of the tallest building in Michigan, but we're also still trying to recover from deep economic, racial and infrastructure issues from over 70 years ago.
    Iím painfully aware of all this. Got it inculcated into my brain from very young when I started asking my dad about where he grew up and why he didnít talk about it. Detroit needs to move on and start a new chapter. Canít live in the past forever and dwell in its ashes. Itís time to move on already. Alright, tangent over. I took us there because someone mentioned Detroit didnít have the clout to land a high-end hotel for Hudsonís and I made mention that the cityís image has slowly been changing and has been significantly repaired.

  19. #1369

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    I love Detroit as much as anyone and had always spoken of the great potential thar the city has. Hearing about new developments and the timeline to which they will be completed make me cynical. I had been right so far. I grew up 8n Detroit and know that going outside the downtown midtown inner ring Detroit need a lot of work to be done. Schools, roads, safety issues, grocery and retail need much improving and had been overlooked by outsiders and those who live in the downtown midtown area. Corrupt contractors are not making 8t better for potential developers who could build in the city and make it much better

  20. #1370

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    Interesting article about why some new/renovation in Detroit is going Hotel instead of Residential... mentions why it is much easier to build new hotels than new residential... and specifically mentions why MSC (Ford) and Hudson's Tower (Gilbert) have an easier time getting financing for hotel space than Condo/Apartment space, and why they are headed in that direction.

    https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...ls/2310415001/
    Last edited by Gistok; September-16-19 at 09:08 PM.

  21. #1371

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gistok View Post
    Interesting article about why some new/renovation in Detroit is going Hotel instead of Residential... mentions why it is much easier to build new hotels than new residential... and specifically mentions why MSC (Ford) and Hudson's Tower (Gilbert) have an easier time getting financing for hotel space than Condo/Apartment space, and why they are headed in that direction.
    Hotel article

    https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...ls/2310415001/

  22. #1372

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    Quote Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit View Post
    Yeah thanks.... I thought I was copy/pasting the link you posted... but the Motown link was still copied on my computer....

  23. #1373

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    Another reason why I think the hotel concept for downtown had been the plan now is for unlike apartments, hotels dont have to have a percentage of section 8 people as guest or residents

  24. #1374

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    So, what's going on at the southwest corner of the site? I thought maybe a tower crane, but the ones currently filed don't show one on that corner. But this is definitely a new thing being done behind the tub wall.


  25. #1375

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    They're probably just "moving dirt around." Kidding.

    Maybe they're connecting power/sewer?

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