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  1. #1151

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    Everywhere has Chicken Littles.

    Metro Detroit just has a lot more of them as a statistical proportion of the population on account of the brain drain. That is why all those New York plates in town are a good thing.
    Last edited by ABetterDetroit; August-12-19 at 12:36 PM.

  2. #1152

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    Quote Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit View Post
    Everywhere has Chicken Littles.

    Metro Detroit just has a lot more of them as a statistical proportion of the population on account of the brain drain. That is why all those New York plates in town are a good thing.
    I always enjoy a good word salad every now and then.

  3. #1153

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    Quote Originally Posted by casscorridor View Post
    ...And as others have said, it's not height that matters, but rather activating the area
    I'm going to resist making a 'things guys say' joke.

  4. #1154

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    It's becoming pretty apparent that a recession is likely imminent. This has been and/or will be impacting investments not just in Detroit, but across the country.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...ession-1657062

  5. #1155

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    Quote Originally Posted by stinkytofu View Post
    It's becoming pretty apparent that a recession is likely imminent. This has been and/or will be impacting investments not just in Detroit, but across the country.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...ession-1657062
    I was wondering about the height of the building or tower being 900 feet in light of this upcoming recession. The Empire State Building was built during the great Depression and only had taken a year and a half to construct it. I don't know how much backing Gilbert has but I dont think that the tower would go no higher than 700 feet especially with the red tape that Detroit love to put in front of developers

  6. #1156

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    Interesting, was walking around the backside of the project and they have taken down some of the big architectural drawings, advertising and picture boards of the grand building and just erected black material surrounding the site,. So, so much for the latest conception of the building..Im just hoping it doesn't end up being a 10 story square building. So much money was spend on architectural firms from NYC , publicity presentations and hype , as well as material public grant incentives granted ( do they still qualify for them, now that they are changing everything ? ) , the whole situation is very puzzling, after all these years of working hard to “ get it right “. It sounds like bedrock doesn't even know the purpose of the building.. Keeping fingers crossed it at least results in a decent facility...We have been carrying on about this for 5 years now. Most cities have these type of buildings up and running in that time frame. Bedrock has done some marvelous things downtown and needs to be congratulated for this, but this project seems to lack credible direction at this time.

  7. #1157

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    It seems like the creative aspect of the building was in that main "block" portion and the tower just looks like a generic tower imo. I'm sure it will be tall, but definitely not as tall as they wanted it to be.

  8. #1158

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    I know no one here wants to sound like a Debbie Downer... nor do we have reason to, with these little changes... but I have to agree with one point just made.... what was the reason for at least the 14 story main block? It was all so vague. It looked exciting, but what was the purpose of all those various floors of different heights? First floor retail... check... floors of office space... check.... tower with hotel (of questionable size) and residential... check. But all that other "event" space had me scratching my head all along. A museum? A theatre? Display space?

    I hope we are all just reading too much into all of these little nuances... but I guess time will tell. One point of solice is that Gilbert has delivered on everything he has said he would so far. And I don't believe that there is some nefarious "deep state" in city government that wants to quash all plans by developers that doesn't confirm to their hidden agenda... I don't buy that.

    I guess the best we can do is remember that Gilbert is not an Ilitch!
    Last edited by Gistok; August-14-19 at 06:14 PM.

  9. #1159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gistok View Post
    I know no one here wants to sound like a Debbie Downer... nor do we have reason to, with these little changes... but I have to agree with one point just made.... what was the reason for at least the 14 story main block? It was all so vague. It looked exciting, but what was the purpose of all those various floors of different heights? First floor retail... check... floors of office space... check.... tower with hotel (of questionable size) and residential... check. But all that other "event" space had me scratching my head all along. A museum? A theatre? Display space?

    I hope we are all just reading too much into all of these little nuances... but I guess time will tell. One point of solice is that Gilbert has delivered on everything he has said he would so far. And I don't believe that there is some nefarious "deep state" in city government that wants to quash all plans by developers that doesn't confirm to their hidden agenda... I don't buy that.

    I guess the best we can do is remember that Gilbert is not an Ilitch!
    One optimistic point is that Detroit is still woefully behind the other large Midwestern cities when it comes to large scale hotel options downtown. There is a large void here in that regard, which makes a large hotel possible. Even on a recession, the need is still here.

    The problem is Gilbert himself is on the injured reserve list, and I don’t know how we’ll Bedrock can sell the concept without the point man. There is still a vey solid business case to be made for a large hotel, but with a recession looming, and only a few hotel management companies out there with enough capital to take on a project like this, it becomes a harder sell.

  10. #1160

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    Check this out: http://1md1ifcdgpn3hahxo2l2bzt6.wpen...OneSheeter.pdf


    Big thing to note for the Hudson's site: "The planned through-cut public space will be widened to enable more programming options."

    To me this means that the space between the two buildings (the 14 story and the ultra-tall tower) will be getting bigger. This to me means that one of the buildings is getting narrower. I would imagine it would be the pedestal (14 story) one, as the tower can't really get shrunk too much without the floor plans not making sense.

    Name:  BedrockUpdate.jpg
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  11. #1161

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    Quote Originally Posted by 48307 View Post
    Check this out: http://1md1ifcdgpn3hahxo2l2bzt6.wpen...OneSheeter.pdf


    Big thing to note for the Hudson's site: "The planned through-cut public space will be widened to enable more programming options."

    To me this means that the space between the two buildings (the 14 story and the ultra-tall tower) will be getting bigger. This to me means that one of the buildings is getting narrower. I would imagine it would be the pedestal (14 story) one, as the tower can't really get shrunk too much without the floor plans not making sense.

    Maybe the pedestal will get taller if it gets narrower. I'd imagine the need for office space is till there.

    Also, it shows that the projected completion date for Monroe Blocks is 2022. Has the completion date not been pushed back even with the construction delay I wonder?

  12. #1162

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    Quote Originally Posted by M. Brown View Post
    Maybe the pedestal will get taller if it gets narrower. I'd imagine the need for office space is till there.

    Also, it shows that the projected completion date for Monroe Blocks is 2022. Has the completion date not been pushed back even with the construction delay I wonder?
    My guess is the completion date has not been pushed back YET. If they are still in design, then they probably donít know how long it will fully take to build... as they donít fully know what is being built yet.

  13. #1163

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    I had never known of a project that had work started on it before the final design had been determined

  14. #1164

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    Quote Originally Posted by stasu1213 View Post
    I had never known of a project that had work started on it before the final design had been determined
    Ha! Having worked in the industry I can tell you that almost never DOESN'T happen. And the larger the development, the more common it is.

  15. #1165

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    Quote Originally Posted by ParisianLesion View Post
    Ha! Having worked in the industry I can tell you that almost never DOESN'T happen. And the larger the development, the more common it is.
    Yeah, it's rare these days. It's called Design-Bid-Build. It's not very common these days as owners want Speed to Market. So architects and engineers break buildings into multiple bid packages and release the over time. Civil and structure go first while architecture and interiors will slide out, as getting into the ground and going vertical will take time. It provides risk to the owner, because decisions get delayed and then costs are incurred as the contractor bid earlier drafts of the documents when late changes are requested. This is because the owner typically requests a GMP (guaranteed maximum price) but then changes their damn mind after GMP is accepted.

    Regarding Hudsons - final documents are going out for hard bid in November.
    Last edited by hybridy; August-15-19 at 03:04 PM.

  16. #1166

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    Quote Originally Posted by hybridy View Post
    Final documents are going out for hard bid in November. At least as of today.
    What does that mean?

  17. #1167

    Default Checking in

    I know you guys have reason to get a little ummm nervous given the long term history of development but until or unless there is something or someone who says the project is in trouble then don't sweat it. Dan has a team that knows exactly what they are doing, what resources they have and the state of the economy. Any recession talk is a bit premature and the indicators are that it is almost 2 years in the future. It will happen, it is part of the business cycle but this project should be done by then. If you want to see about how tall this will be look at
    this.
    This is a building that topped off today in Seattle and is a tad shorter than what the Hudson building will be. This one is about 870'. You guys should be very excited for what is about to happen.
    Last edited by wzer; August-16-19 at 10:44 AM. Reason: Accuracy

  18. #1168

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    Quote Originally Posted by wzer View Post
    It means whatever changes they make will be absolutely final by then. I know you guys have reason to get a little ummm nervous given the long term history of development but until or unless there is something or someone who says the project is in trouble then don't sweat it. Dan has a team that knows exactly what they are doing, what resources they have and the state of the economy. Any recession talk is a bit premature and the indicators are that it is almost 2 years in the future. It will happen, it is part of the business cycle but this project should be done by then. If you want to see about how tall this will be look at
    this.
    This is a building that topped off today in Seattle and is a tad shorter than what the Hudson building will be. This one is about 870'. You guys should be very excited for what is about to happen.
    Thanks for sharing that link! Neat view of Seattle. Theyíre building so much up there.
    I have faith in DG. That recent news conference mightíve been a tad rattling but something tall will be built. Fingers crossed theyíll land an awesome hotel chain for the tower.

  19. #1169

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGrant View Post
    What does that mean?
    It means the architects and engineers are done drawing all the details, sections, plans etc. that are needed to construct the building. These documents will come with multiple hefty sets of specifications as well. Those specs + drawings are then sent to the GC and their subs to get pricing for all the built elements. Any savings from these bid costs may go back to the GC under the GMP - though the actual contract may differ. I'm simply speaking to the typical.

    Ideally, changes are kept to a minimum after this point - but they are in essence inevitable. And every change incurs an added cost. In that instance the owner typically sets aside a Construction Contingency to cover these changes and for Errors & Omissions which also occur. This is usually around 3% of construction cost, but can be higher or lower.

  20. #1170

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    Unlike the renaissance center The thing I like about all these projects they move and spread people and help the surrounding areas. The rencen just kept everyone and business in that one location.

  21. #1171

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    Thanks for the explanations. I assume once they submit the final plans, they'll be publicly available, either intentional or via FOIA request?

  22. #1172

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGrant View Post
    Thanks for the explanations. I assume once they submit the final plans, they'll be publicly available, either intentional or via FOIA request?
    Presumably there should be some record in city planning commission minutes

  23. #1173

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGrant View Post
    What does that mean?
    Just more baloney public relations spin and punting timelines. Monroe Blocks and Hudson's skyscraper are very obviously not going to be built. It's been clear for some time now, since long before Dan's health scare. If you follow construction in other cities, these timelines, lack of financing, lack of tenant details, lack of detailed plans were teasing out this was all smoke & mirrors and praying for, what I suspect was, Chinese financing. Well, that dog don't hunt (anymore), Chinese financing has dried up.
    Last edited by jazzgal; August-16-19 at 11:55 AM.

  24. #1174

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gistok View Post
    I guess the best we can do is remember that Gilbert is not an Ilitch!
    Where's the MLS stadium district Dan promised with flashy renderings to get the fail jail land? It's interesting how people see what they want to see and spread these phony narratives. Gilbert, Gores and Ilitch are all peas in a pod. Stop bootlicking and start getting skeptical. Way too much free land, back scratching and public giveaways moving around to throne sniff these local billionaires.

  25. #1175

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    3 posts of some powerful stupidity^^^^

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