Hudson's Site Building Thread

[ILKSGAMI]

Was just told by an insider this morning that they have just placed 4 cameras around the Hudson's site to time-lapse the vertical construction.

Any indication that one of them could offer a live feed? It would be pretty boring now, but could be cool once steel starts going up! I do greatly appreciate the daily time lapse already on YouTube, but sometimes I get impatient waiting.

[Lowell]

They posted some timelapse footage a few weeks ago: https://twitter.com/BedrockDetroit/s...16524331966465

Great find EGrant!

[p1acebo]

Hmmmm.... looks like all traces of 'jazz girl' have been wiped clean from DYES [[except for our replies to her). Maybe Lowell found out she had an agenda or was a shill for someone else... and used some Troll-Be-Gone on the forum...

Does this actually happen? Like some sort of DetroitYES! gestapo?

[Gistok]

Does this actually happen? Like some sort of DetroitYES! gestapo?

Of course not... more like a DYES School of Ettiquette.

But if their posts disappear, it could have been "time to cull the herd"!!

Newbies don't know it, but they are on probation here... very mild probation. Quickest way to be sent packing? Do a lot of Ad Hominems...

[M. Brown]

Are they starting weekend work now? I drove by around noon today and the fence was open on the Woodward/Grand River corner. I couldn't see all the way down in to whole to see how many folks were down there.

[DetBill]

Would be great if the building could be Detroits success version of Salesforce Tower in San Francisco. It was heralded to be but interesting to see what Bedrock comes up with.That building took a little over four years from start to finish to occupancy.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r4ZTHUmcW-A

[bigboat]

I had never heard of Salesforce before this tower was constructed in SF. Observation of you tube video of our illustrious Hudsons Site does indicate they are making progress, but ever so slowly. They have that older style "RED" caisson drilling machine parked next to the wall and I have seen it drill very few caisson holes, I'm sure they have to pay for that machine to just sit there or maybe Barton Malow own it and wanted to get it out for a breath of fresh air. I now wonder if they know just what they are building or are they as mystified as the rest of us. Somebody is going to have to make a decision soon as they are running out of holes to drill, although they might have to hire a special group of people to locate all of the 175 caissons they have completed, but are now lost in the confusion of "just what the hell" are we building!

[DetBill]

Yes, unfortunately it seems they dont know what they are building, and even worse, what the purpose of the building is, all after four years of anticipation, expensive plans drawn up by “ world class “ New York Firms, numerous media releases, major tax incentive grants and their government approval and it seems many are scratching their heads when you hear the project manager announce they dont know definitely the size of the building or its purpose... An awful lot of confusion and the public probably knows 20% of the truth...maybe thats a good thing,, a major negative on this project publicly would seriously hurt image and progression of other downtown projects and energy. Possibly everything will be just fine, but it would be a good idea to figure this whole project out one way or another..Bedrock and Gilbert have done wonderful things for Detroit and we must be very grateful, hopefully they will be able to persevere on this vital next step...

[Bradley]

Bedrock will build it and they might come. What gets me is they don't have tenants as we speak. Is it dizziness or is there a recession coming and Bedrock would rather not speak about it? Seriously

[stasu1213]

Yes, unfortunately it seems they dont know what they are building, and even worse, what the purpose of the building is, all after four years of anticipation, expensive plans drawn up by “ world class “ New York Firms, numerous media releases, major tax incentive grants and their government approval and it seems many are scratching their heads when you hear the project manager announce they dont know definitely the size of the building or its purpose... An awful lot of confusion and the public probably knows 20% of the truth...maybe thats a good thing,, a major negative on this project publicly would seriously hurt image and progression of other downtown projects and energy. Possibly everything will be just fine, but it would be a good idea to figure this whole project out one way or another..Bedrock and Gilbert have done wonderful things for Detroit and we must be very grateful, hopefully they will be able to persevere on this vital next step...

I still feel that there are factions warring behind the scenes over what this project should become. I thinkl that Gilbert. The Mayor, and maybe the contractors wanted or thought that this project was going to be one way but there's that element that want to keep Detroit a 5th rate city

[401don]

I still feel that there are factions warring behind the scenes over what this project should become. I thinkl that Gilbert. The Mayor, and maybe the contractors wanted or thought that this project was going to be one way but there's that element that want to keep Detroit a 5th rate city

Here you go again. This project will be some combination of retail, office & residential. What proportions are each and whether the building ends up at 60 or 90 storeys isn't going to somehow change the city to the point the big bad secret element needs to worry.

[Gistok]

Here you go again. This project will be some combination of retail, office & residential. What proportions are each and whether the building ends up at 60 or 90 storeys isn't going to somehow change the city to the point the big bad secret element needs to worry.

Agree.... there isn't some hidden city government conspiracy or agenda that wants to keep Detroit from prospering... Folks who are in the way of progress will be fired or sidelined by Duggan... he did the same thing at DMC.

[detroiter79]

Would be great if the building could be Detroits success version of Salesforce Tower in San Francisco. It was heralded to be but interesting to see what Bedrock comes up with.That building took a little over four years from start to finish to occupancy.

More like 5.5 years - I work across the street from Salesforce Tower.

Salesforce Tower had around 50-60 caisons that went around 200-250 feet into bedrock. There's a project across the street that spent 18 months doing 110 caissons 300-350 feet into the ground. I should note that everyone was speculating that they were just moving dirt around the site b/c the progress was so difficult to see.

It's also worth noting that the tower next to Salesforce Tower, Millennium Tower is sinking because they didn't go down to bedrock with their foundation - they're now forced to spend $100M to do just that [[in addition to hundreds of millions more in settlements with the homeowners).

It's worth the wait to ensure the tower stays in place if there's ever a seismic event

[detroiter79]

The lack of a hotel operator is the big issue - Bedrock wants a luxury operator [[Ritz, Four Seasons, Waldorf, etc.) and the numbers just aren't there. The residences would potentially be branded if one of these operators would come on board which would heavily impact the designs of the interior. You'd want someone in place by now if this project is to deliver in 2023. So many things are contingent on this - if/once that question is answered things will fall into place.

Gilbert really wants a luxury hotel brand - I hate to say it but it's doubtful that will happen right now.

[Dmberko11]

More like 5.5 years - I work across the street from Salesforce Tower.

Salesforce Tower had around 50-60 caisons that went around 200-250 feet into bedrock. There's a project across the street that spent 18 months doing 110 caissons 300-350 feet into the ground. I should note that everyone was speculating that they were just moving dirt around the site b/c the progress was so difficult to see.

It's also worth noting that the tower next to Salesforce Tower, Millennium Tower is sinking because they didn't go down to bedrock with their foundation - they're now forced to spend $100M to do just that [[in addition to hundreds of millions more in settlements with the homeowners).

It's worth the wait to ensure the tower stays in place if there's ever a seismic event

Good point about millennium tower. That’s a stinkin hot mess lol. I pray DG gets the hotel operator he wants. And you’re right. He’s lookin for luxury. I just don’t know if Detroit can attract such a player in its market.

[bigboat]

There was a Ritz Carlton in Dearborn several years ago. It was a very nice hotel and built by Ford Motor CO. It is now gone as they just could not support the Ritz Carlton name with just business travel.

[313WX]

There was a Ritz Carlton in Dearborn several years ago. It was a very nice hotel and built by Ford Motor CO. It is now gone as they just could not support the Ritz Carlton name with just business travel.

It closed because Metro Detroit's economy went into the dumps and Ford was collapsing, not because it couldn't support just business travel

[Bradley]

There was a Big Boat. Economies are for sucka's

[bigboat]

There was a Big Boat. Economies are for sucka's

Some commentators on this forum could possibly own a "BIGBOAT" hence the name on my posts. Ford never collapsed, the Dearborn Ritz closed much before the 2008-2009 economic depression and it is now named differently. Same thing happened to the Dearborn Hyatt Regency not too far down the road.

[313WX]

Some commentators on this forum could possibly own a "BIGBOAT" hence the name on my posts.

We know facts clearly aren't your strong point.

Ford never collapsed

So what rock were you living under when Ford had a record $14.6 billion lost, mortgaged itself down to the Blue Oval and eliminated nearly 70,000 jobs in 2002 - 2006 [[while closing at least 14 plants).

Source:

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2...rican_ico.html

...the Dearborn Ritz closed much before the 2008-2009 economic depression...

The Ritz Carlton marquee was taken down on 6/2/10.

Source:

http://www.pressandguide.com/news/de...8f3aebdd1.html

Same thing happened to the Dearborn Hyatt Regency not too far down the road.

The former Dearborn Hyatt Regency closed in 2018 because the current owner didn't want to spend the money to renovate and maintain what is ultimately a poorly aging building.

Source:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.det...amp/2312264002

As far as the Hyatt name being dropped, that was in 2012. While I'm sure faltering business travel tied to Ford's collapse and Metro Detroit's economy being in the dumps didn't help, it was largely because the owner was trash.

A brand as renowed as Hyatt doesn't want to be associated with slumlords!? Shocking, I know!!!

Source:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/detroit...ment-team/amp/

I don't expect you to respond and admit you were wrong, since you ignored my last post. But I do feel obligated to let others who read this forum know that you're spreading falsehoods and set the record straight.

[Richard]

I still feel that there are factions warring behind the scenes over what this project should become. I thinkl that Gilbert. The Mayor, and maybe the contractors wanted or thought that this project was going to be one way but there's that element that want to keep Detroit a 5th rate city

Or it could be that whole thing of meeting today’s demands while also building for future demand,priorities are going to be in flux just like the city.

If the demand in the future is for downtown living space it would be kinda pointless to spend millions as hotel space that will have to be repurposed.

There is a lot of land to cover and at the very top just a few with only so much money to fill needs and priorities.

It is a highly speculative large project and I am thinking the people behind it kinda know what they are doing and are proceeding at a pace that insures that it remains viable and not end up as a folly.

For all we know the funding may be as such that it would not have to depend on a hotel in order to survive,if its survival is based on needing the hotel and in the future,5-10-20 years down the road and the market does not support the hotel and it pulls out you are kinda stuck.

Lots of money involved as a speculative project,sometimes slow and calculated is not considered a negative.

[401don]

Cleveland has a Ritz-Carlton, Metropolitan and Hyatt-Regency downtown so you can't blame Gilbert for thinking Detroit can support at least one luxury brand.

[Richard]

^ he is also invested heavily in Cleveland and I kinda think that those would be two cities that could be used as equal comparisons,not comparing Detroit to Houston or Minneapolis etc.

He is the numbers guy so personally I kinda think he knows what he is doing.

From a standpoint of looking from the outside in and if we are comparing cities,I see more smart growth happing in Detroit where as the other cities are building on current demand and not long term.

That is what Detroit did in the past and did not prepare for the future,the real test will be when a recession hits,like they always have a habit of popping up.Sure things will slow down or even might come to a stall,but I have a tendency to think that Detroit is in a good spot to recover faster and have a lesser effect during.

When it comes to hotel space,the elephant in the room is the amount of planned hotels for when the bridge is completed and what thier impact would be on downtown locations,I also believe that the fairgrounds plans also include new hotels.

So even if the downtown could at this time support a luxury brand it is scary at my pay grade thinking if it could survive and what happens if it cannot.

Thats kinda how I come up with the slow build out being more so based on a pay as you go in order to decrease debt load for when it comes online,worst case scenario it can hold its own and still compete.

On a small scale comparison it would be kinda like me buying a house based solely expecting the tenants to pay the mortgage,if it sits empty for 6 months,I still have to cover the note or lose it.

[313WX]

^ he is also invested heavily in Cleveland and I kinda think that those would be two cities that could be used as equal comparisons,not comparing Detroit to Houston or Minneapolis etc.

Saying that Detroit is an equal comparison to a city 1/3 to half its size is absurd.

That would be like comparing San Antonio with Dallas. Yeah, they're both in Texas and they both have basketball teams, but that's about as far as the similarities go.

[Richard]

Saying that Detroit is an equal comparison to a city 1/3 to half its size is absurd.

That would be like comparing San Antonio with Dallas. Yeah, they're both in Texas and they both have basketball teams, but that's about as far as the similarities go.

Size does not matter,it is two cities that were devastated in similar circumstances that are both in the process of rediscovering themselves.

Minneapolis,Atlanta and other cities were in the same place 30 40 years ago so how can one use them as a comparison.

Portland and the Texas,Arizona,Nashville etc cities used in comparison are benefiting from the massive influx and investment of people relocating from States such as California.

Detroit and Cleveland are both cities that are reinventing themselves based solely on working with what they have without the added benefit of a massive population shift fueling it.

That is the difference outside of the basic metrics that every city has as a base no matter what size they are.

Outside of that set of basic metrics,Detroit is Detroit,she does not need to reinvent herself in anybody else’s image or by useing thier floorplan as a blueprint,she needs to reinvent herself in a way that works for her and her citizens.