Hudson's Site Building Thread

[LongGone06]

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external...16118603&row=4

I thought this was interesting today, looks like the FAA permits for the block section of the building and two 450ft tower cranes were recently filed.

Thanks, ILKSGAMI. "Total height" of 825 seems pretty clear; but, explain the structure and elevation numbers to me, if you can.

[EGrant]

Excellent find! As someone who knows nothing about cranes and crane height, what exactly does this mean?

[DetroitSoldier]

Excellent find! As someone who knows nothing about cranes and crane height, what exactly does this mean?

The 600 refers to Detroit's elevation above sea level and the 225 is in reference to the height of the crane structure. Therefore the entire height above sea level is 825.

[Metro25]

I thought this article was a little weird as it felt it relied on a lot of speculation and outside commentators.

Also, why didn't we get a lengthy article like this about Little Caesars' and the promises Illitch made? Just some generic short ones and a few Op-Eds. At least Gilbert is making progress on the vision he has pitched for Downtown.

Freep has been targeting Bedrock and development downtown lately but their articles just say stuff we either already knew a long time ago or things that aren't really true. I think they're desperate for stories and this downtown development speculation must be getting them traffic on their site.

[Metro25]

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external...16118603&row=4

I thought this was interesting today, looks like the FAA permits for the block section of the building and two 450ft tower cranes were recently filed.

Oh wow! This is exciting!

[EGrant]

Wouldn't total height listed on the website be from sea level though? So the height of the cranes from Detroit ground level would be 432ft. and 450 ft., since the Hudson site is 601 ft. above sea level.

Which would make the height of the block 190 feet and the tower 225 feet above Detroit ground level, according to these permits.

Again, I know very little about the FAA permit process, so take that with a grain of salt.

[ILKSGAMI]

Wouldn't total height listed on the website be from sea level though? So the height of the cranes from Detroit ground level would be 432ft. and 450 ft., since the Hudson site is 601 ft. above sea level.

Which would make the height of the block 190 feet and the tower 225 feet above Detroit ground level, according to these permits.

Again, I know very little about the FAA permit process, so take that with a grain of salt.

From what I could tell, the tallest part of the block is 225 ft and the cranes are approximately 450 ft tall. No permits for the tower portion yet that I saw

[ILKSGAMI]

Thanks, ILKSGAMI. "Total height" of 825 seems pretty clear; but, explain the structure and elevation numbers to me, if you can.

Total height = height above sea level, structure height = height above ground

So this permit is for the "block" portion of Hudson's which is 225 tall. There are separate permits for the cranes - two units that are 450 ft tall above ground level

[EGrant]

I'm see 10 total permits; 2 for the cranes, 4 for "B1" [[N,S,W,E) and 4 for "B2" in each direction.

[SammyS]

I'm see 10 total permits; 2 for the cranes, 4 for "B1" [[N,S,W,E) and 4 for "B2" in each direction.

and what exactly are B's?

[ILKSGAMI]

I'm see 10 total permits; 2 for the cranes, 4 for "B1" [[N,S,W,E) and 4 for "B2" in each direction.

So I mapped the GPS Coordinates for each of the permits with google maps and came up with this - it seems as though the center of the block or podium portion of this project will step up from 193 to 225 feet. The red circles are the crane locations

[Atticus]

So I mapped the GPS Coordinates for each of the permits with google maps and came up with this - it seems as though the center of the block or podium portion of this project will step up from 193 to 225 feet. The red circles are the crane locations

Excellent work. Thank you for doing and sharing this.

[EGrant]

ILKSGAMI, you are a legend.

[Dexlin]

Yes, so what we know is that the block portion has not been lowered in height. I'm guessing the 225 feet must be to the roof deck, as the original renderings show the building rising 232 feet to the top of the mechanical level, and another 8 feet to the top of the domed skylight:

https://docs.google.com/viewerng/vie...FloorPlans.pdf

[[start on page 16)

It gives me hope the tower could still be the same height when they work everything out.

and what exactly are B's?

I believe it's simply "Building" as opposed to "C" for "crane" and so forth. Glad to see we're going to start seeing vertical construction on at least part of this as they'd scheduled.

[Dexlin]

BTW, a reminder of what the "Block" portion is going to look like:

[DeLemur]

The Free Press article basically says financing hasn't been secured for either of the two developments, with 'conventional' debt possibly being the solution for Hudsons. Wondering just how bad it is to take 'conventional' debt.

The main question of what happens to the incentives should the A. building not be built [[likely Monroe) or B. building built much differently than proposed isn't answered though. I would love to see that from the Free Press, but its a good piece regardless.

Looks like our thank you gift to Dan for all he's done for Detroit isn't materializing too well right now. I would have preferred the state/downtown development authority act more like investors [[because they are) than philanthropists. Then projects would be more vetted and taxpayers would get real returns. If the state and city can't be serious about their ROI, then they shouldn't be serious about incentives. Its not a question of doing incentives or not, but how you do them.....

[Lowell]

Looks like our thank you gift to Dan for all he's done for Detroit isn't materializing too well right now. I would have preferred the state/downtown development authority act more like investors [[because they are) than philanthropists. Then projects would be more vetted and taxpayers would get real returns. If the state and city can't be serious about their ROI, then they shouldn't be serious about incentives. Its not a question of doing incentives or not, but how you do them.....

If Dan Gilbert immediately stopped everything he is doing [which won't happen] what he has already done has materialized just fine for Detroit. Would I prefer "state/downtown development authority act more like investors"? Sure but while all that is going and waiting to happen, as it did for decades, he has far, far more than anyone transformed downtown from a ghost town to an increasingly vibrant downtown in few short years.

As for securing financing it should be noted that his Quicken loans cash cow just set yet another record quarter in revenue. I fail to see how he, of anyone and with all his connections and wealth, will have any issue in finding the money, which, at a pinch, he could pay out of his own abundant pockets.

Regarding taxpayer return the 17,000 Quicken employees paying CoD resident and non-resident tax [that weren't doing so six years ago] not to mention all the spin off business generated has gotten taxpayers" real returns".

[Dexlin]

Yeah, the concern over financing is weird. This is one of the few major projects in the country, right now, that could be financed in the middle of the recession by its developer. Gilbert's recent sell-off of Greektown Casino, along could finance most of these projects.

A lot could still go wrong with this project; financing is not one of those things. It's also particularly weird to be talking about this literally after we've found the FAA obstruction evaluation filed earlier this week, which shows actual vertical construction is imminent on at least a portion of the project.

[DeLemur]

If Dan Gilbert immediately stopped everything he is doing [which won't happen] what he has already done has materialized just fine for Detroit. Would I prefer "state/downtown development authority act more like investors"? Sure but while all that is going and waiting to happen, as it did for decades, he has far, far more than anyone transformed downtown from a ghost town to an increasingly vibrant downtown in few short years.

As for securing financing it should be noted that his Quicken loans cash cow just set yet another record quarter in revenue. I fail to see how he, of anyone and with all his connections and wealth, will have any issue in finding the money, which, at a pinch, he could pay out of his own abundant pockets.

Regarding taxpayer return the 17,000 Quicken employees paying CoD resident and non-resident tax [that weren't doing so six years ago] not to mention all the spin off business generated has gotten taxpayers" real returns".

He's obviously done a lot for Detroit and guess what? He plans on making a ton of money in it. This has been a business decision for profit. I'm glad he made it. He's been instrumental to downtown's turnaround and should be praised for it.
Yet the things you mention, we're evident BEFORE yhe incentives we're finalized. Thus, did government incentivize a project for Gilbert's past investment and not the actual Hudson's project and Monroe? Is that ok or sound policy?

[DeLemur]

I would be shocked if he directly put his own cash into financing the project. But he could pay for it.

[Lowell]

He's obviously done a lot for Detroit and guess what? He plans on making a ton of money in it. This has been a business decision for profit. I'm glad he made it. He's been instrumental to downtown's turnaround and should be praised for it.
Yet the things you mention, we're evident BEFORE yhe incentives we're finalized. Thus, did government incentivize a project for Gilbert's past investment and not the actual Hudson's project and Monroe? Is that ok or sound policy?

This topic is the headline story of today's Free Press.

Gilbert promised, officials believed
Experts: Usual real estate procedures not followed

I'm not comfortable with procedures not being followed, but there is a bit of a "the proof is in the pudding" argument. For instance the lead paragraph reads.

Businessman Dan Gilbert's organization persuaded Detroit and state officials to give his development companies free land and hundreds of millions of dollars in tax incentives by promising to turn downtown into a walkable urban center with public plazas and a skyscraper that would be a “landmark destination.”

That pudding today looks like what was promised, even better. After decades of squatter speculators dominating a downtown ghost town am I going to get my panties in a bunch over some rules getting bent and the pudding-maker making some money, even a lot of money? No. If anything I get a little burned over the speculators who cleaned house due to Gilbert's investments that gave value to their blighted ruins. Ilitch's? Hello?

[southen]

BTW, a reminder of what the "Block" portion is going to look like:

That is an old rendering with the old tower. You can go to the Hudson's website to see what the current iteration is.

[Dexlin]

That is an old rendering with the old tower. You can go to the Hudson's website to see what the current iteration is.

The low-rise portion has not changed since that rendering, only the tower portion, and I was only talking about the Block, anyway.

[southen]

The low-rise portion has not changed since that rendering, only the tower portion, and I was only talking about the Block, anyway.

Except it has though. It has increased in height adding another floor of office space as well as a set back floor on top of that. The glass has changed as well on the office floors and there is now plans for a pedestrian bridge between the structures.

[ILKSGAMI]

ILKSGAMI, you are a legend.

Thanks, my wife just calls me obsessed lol.