Hudson's Site Building Thread

[mwilbert]

Alo... a workout retail store....

How exiting... <sarcasm>

Bedrock Announces Detroit's Hudson Tower First Retail Tenant

I mean, you don't have to be excited, but what were you expecting? Clothing is the main kind of storefront retail that exists these days. And hard enough to get that.

[Gistok]

I mean, you don't have to be excited, but what were you expecting? Clothing is the main kind of storefront retail that exists these days. And hard enough to get that.

Yes but do they cater to the slacker couch potato??

[mwilbert]

Yes but do they cater to the slacker couch potato??

I don't know anything about Alo, but a lot of the fitness-oriented places do sell things that will fit slacker couch potatoes who want to pretend that they aren't. It's a big market.

[Satiricalivory]

Love that we're at a point in downtown's growth and resurgence that we're disappointed about new luxury retail because it's not exactly where some of us would personally shop. We've made it.

[stasu1213]

Bloomberg posted this today...

The Battle Over the Fate of Detroit’s Renaissance Center

On person made the point... "if Detroit if through building skyscrapers... then tear it down!"

This brings up an interesting point... EVERY highrise in Detroit in decades has gotten public subsidies. Why should we be expected to partly subsidize bringing part of Ren Cen down... and in the future AGAIN subsidize building another tower in downtown!!

All the more reasons that we should mothball to of the towers for at least 7 years. If Ford could purchase the train station that had been closed and dilapidated for 29 years and restore it then someone could purchase a tower or two and redo them. Who knows. Maybe the CIA could use a few floors

[Gistok]

This is an interesting look at Baltimore's "billion dollar ghost town"...



Converting the RenCen to a downsized development and then creating a riverfront lowrise area to the huge sea of parking east of the RenCen may create something similar to the empty promises in Baltimore.

Spending another billion dollar idea [with huge public subsidies] won't guarantee success.

Nothing will work if we don't have more people living in the area... thus generating foot traffic. The best way to do that is to convert the RenCen towers to residential.

Didn't we learn from District Detroit about spending vast sums of public money that didn't create promised results?

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Didn't we learn from District Detroit about spending vast sums of public money that didn't create promised results?

That’s a lesson that we never seem to learn.

[ABetterDetroit]

This is an interesting look at Baltimore's "billion dollar ghost town"...



Converting the RenCen to a downsized development and then creating a riverfront lowrise area to the huge sea of parking east of the RenCen may create something similar to the empty promises in Baltimore.

Spending another billion dollar idea [with huge public subsidies] won't guarantee success.

Nothing will work if we don't have more people living in the area... thus generating foot traffic. The best way to do that is to convert the RenCen towers to residential.

Didn't we learn from District Detroit about spending vast sums of public money that didn't create promised results?

You’re convincing me. Let GM tear all of RenCen down. That is by far the best answer to the currant office glut and pressing forward a need for new residences built at a proper scale. Millions of Sq. Ft. is far too much to be financially feasible or marketable.

[Gistok]

^ It would be awful PR... shown on TV world wide.

Undo all the good that Michigan Central did...

[ABetterDetroit]

^ It would be awful PR... shown on TV world wide.

Undo all the good that Michigan Central did...

I disagree. I don’t believe demolishing RenCen would really measure more than a short blip in the currant media climate. The upside to demolition is it gets over and it’s finished.

If RenCen is left standing vacant for years or decades it would become the poster child for the lack of need for HUGE office complexes across the country. Because it is in Detroit an empty RenCen would draw a lot of attention and show ongoing continuous failure.

Doing nothing about a problem demonstrates incompetence. Pick the best plan to go forward and execute it. Sitting around hoping for better days is not a plan. RenCen is way to Huge to hide.

[Satiricalivory]

You’re convincing me. Let GM tear all of RenCen down. That is by far the best answer to the currant office glut and pressing forward a need for new residences built at a proper scale. Millions of Sq. Ft. is far too much to be financially feasible or marketable.

Or maybe lets not go crazy jumping the gun destroying perfectly good office space just because it's had vacancies for a few short years, which is nothing unique to the complex at all...

[ABetterDetroit]

Or maybe lets not go crazy jumping the gun destroying perfectly good office space just because it's had vacancies for a few short years, which is nothing unique to the complex at all...

I suppose. Surely if Dan Gilbert was at a loss on WTF to do with 5.2 million sq. ft. of empty office space in Detroit the next man up has a solution. Look out for charlatans tho. Throw many 100s of millions in taxpayer subsidies on the table and the sharks will start to circle and telling you exactly what you want to hear will not be a problem.

[401don]

This would be well down the list of retailers I expected to find at the Hudson Site:
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...fice-building/

[ABetterDetroit]

This would be well down the list of retailers I expected to find at the Hudson Site:
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...fice-building/

They appear to have some pretty fancy looking retail stores…

https://www.tecovas.com/stores?utm_s...hwQEuLf_sIUwtx

[Gistok]

Or maybe lets not go crazy jumping the gun destroying perfectly good office space just because it's had vacancies for a few short years, which is nothing unique to the complex at all...

We still hear people lamenting over the loss of Hudson's and the Statler Hotel... you would think it would give pause to a fast tear down.

[ABetterDetroit]

We still hear people lamenting over the loss of Hudson's and the Statler Hotel... you would think it would give pause to a fast tear down.

‘And we still hear people lamenting’ just doesn’t mean a damn thing. What are they “lamenting?” Ruin Porn? Cass Corridor Prostitution?, Racial Segregation? Indiscriminate Police beatings? Just part of the list of not good that some ‘people’ fondly recall on this very forum. Sorry, but “the many people say” crap is just a shit excuse for pressing an agenda these days. Somebody is always lamenting about something. So what?

You don’t like tearing it down? You hate the Gilbert plan? Then propose a viable alternative that makes some sort of fiscal sense and how it gets paid for on such an enormous property. Maybe something more logical than the upside of job creation for ‘toilet flushers’ in a vacant RenCen like some other poster proposed. Let’s just not pretend that anything remotely like that while letting it sit dark and vacant indefinitely wouldn’t become a world wide ongoing joke and embarrassment to the city when the only purpose would be for preserving the sacred skyline.

[EASTSIDER BALDUCK]

Still naïve.

[stasu1213]

I disagree. I don’t believe demolishing RenCen would really measure more than a short blip in the currant media climate. The upside to demolition is it gets over and it’s finished.

If RenCen is left standing vacant for years or decades it would become the poster child for the lack of need for HUGE office complexes across the country. Because it is in Detroit an empty RenCen would draw a lot of attention and show ongoing continuous failure.

Doing nothing about a problem demonstrates incompetence. Pick the best plan to go forward and execute it. Sitting around hoping for better days is not a plan. RenCen is way to Huge to hide.

Sure. Tear it down and leave that spot an empty lot for the next 10 years such as the spot where the former Ford Auditorium sat became

[ABetterDetroit]

Sure. Tear it down and leave that spot an empty lot for the next 10 years such as the spot where the former Ford Auditorium sat became

Then take the Gilbert Plan if that is the fear.

1.5 Billion of investment in redevelopment. Or GM stated they would tear it down on their dime. 2 options, take a pick.

Just be realistic that running HVAC and doing the regular required maintenance on 5.5 Million square foot vacant sky scraper indefinitely is a very expensive proposition and is exactly why demolition is on the table.

GM, Uncle Sugar and the Taxpayers of Michigan will not pay the bills to “mothball” or whatever you want to call it on a building that size indefinitely with zero future plan funded — period. And under no circumstances could Detroit afford to pay for it annually even if they wanted to.

You can dream about solutions you would like to your hearts desire but if they are not based in the real world and make zero fiscal sense then they are never going to happen. Nobody around here has the printing press that just needs the dial turned up to print out more money faster like DC does every time a new administration shows up.

[stasu1213]

Then take the Gilbert Plan if that is the fear.

1.5 Billion of investment in redevelopment. Or GM stated they would tear it down on their dime. 2 options, take a pick.

Just be realistic that running HVAC and doing the regular required maintenance on 5.5 Million square foot vacant sky scraper indefinitely is a very expensive proposition and is exactly why demolition is on the table.

GM, Uncle Sugar and the Taxpayers of Michigan will not pay the bills to “mothball” or whatever you want to call it on a building that size indefinitely with zero future plan funded — period. And under no circumstances could Detroit afford to pay for it annually even if they wanted to.

You can dream about solutions you would like to your hearts desire but if they are not based in the real world and make zero fiscal sense then they are never going to happen. Nobody around here has the printing press that just needs the dial turned up to print out more money faster like DC does every time a new administration shows up.

No. I don't think that Michigan taxpayers should pay for either the upkeep or demolition. This is GMs baby. Let them figure it out

[ABetterDetroit]

No. I don't think that Michigan taxpayers should pay for either the upkeep or demolition. This is GMs baby. Let them figure it out

Agree. As they should.

[1953]

I lament the loss of The Statler and The Lafayette and the Madison-Lennox everytime I walk down those blocks.

[mwilbert]

I lament the loss, but I don't see how the Statler could have been preserved; just too big. I have a soft spot for the Lafayette Building because I worked in it for a while. My understanding is that the Lafayette had underlying issues, and it also had a weird layout that could cause problems repurposing it, but seems like it could conceivably have been a residential conversion. Had no parking, which could have also been an issue. Don't know anything about the Madison-Lenox.

[royce]

This is an interesting look at Baltimore's "billion dollar ghost town"...



Converting the RenCen to a downsized development and then creating a riverfront lowrise area to the huge sea of parking east of the RenCen may create something similar to the empty promises in Baltimore.

Spending another billion dollar idea [with huge public subsidies] won't guarantee success.

Nothing will work if we don't have more people living in the area... thus generating foot traffic. The best way to do that is to convert the RenCen towers to residential.

Didn't we learn from District Detroit about spending vast sums of public money that didn't create promised results?

I'm not sure when the discussion about the Hudson's site became a discussion about the RenCen, but since everybody is talking about what to do with the RenCen, I'll chime here. I agree, Gistok, that no public money needs to go towards the Gilbert Plan. Threatening to tear the whole RenCen down if GM doesn't public money to tear down two towers is blackmail. They own it let them pay for whatever the hell they want to do with it.

I'm curious as to if GM/Gilbert have sought out other Detroit companies to move into the two towers slated for demolition. Would the City of Detroit be persuaded to move its offices from the Coleman A. Young Municipal Building? Could Blue Cross Blue Shield be convinced to move from their headquarters on Lafayette? They already have offices in Tower 500.

It seems GM is being a bit impatient with its plans for their former headquarters, and asking for public funds to carry out their plans is unnecessary.

[Gistok]

^ Agreed Royce.

On another note... the RenCen 4 office towers is 2.2 million sq. ft. The entire complex, including the hotel, 4 office towers, and 4 story podium circulation space, as well as the parking structure underneath comes to 5.2 million sq. ft.