Looking for help with area/neighborhood names

[Junjie]

I'm starting a new transit map project [[trying to improve on some of the existing bus maps in the region) and now humbly look to all the local experts on this forum for some advice. I'm wondering what you think might be good labels for the following intersections or general parts of the city. Could be a neighborhood name, or could reference something important nearby like a park or historical site. Any thoughts?

Pretty much anything along Gratiot...
- Gratiot & Mack/Warren/Van Dyke [[probably won't label more than one or two of these intersections)
- Gratiot & Conner
- Gratiot & 7 Mile
- Gratiot & 8 Mile

- Greenfield & Grand River
- Greenfield & 7 Mile

[Jason]

This is kind of a rant but I don't think most of Detroit has actual neighborhoods or neighborhood names. Most of the city is endless tract housing developments, most of the named neighborhoods are either the names of subdivisions the developers created for advertising purposes, or they're invented names used for neighborhood branding projects in the last few decades.

For example, I think "Islandview" is an invented neighborhood branding name, to help create neighborhood pride, social stability, etc, and so that they can put "Welcome to Islandview" signs around. I'm pretty sure 100 years ago no one was calling that area Islandview. Palmer Woods is the name of the subdivision given to it by the developers.

Especially nowadays with google maps scraping map resources for obscure neighborhood names, there's a lot of names happening that the people living there have probably never heard of.

You might as well call it Faygo Heights, and if your map gets spread around enough in 5 years people on DetroitYes will be calling it that as if it was actually ever named that.

This isn't the answer you're looking for but I'm sure someone here who lives in those areas has an idea of what people there call them.

[Hermod]

Gratiot and 8-Mile was the location of the DUR/DSR "electric park" amusement park which [[as I recall) was called Eastwood Park so maybe that intersection could be called "Eastwood". I don't remember any places being given a name back in the days except for Indian Village and Palmer Park. Most people spoke of their neighborhood by the nearest big intersection like "Harper and Chalmers" or "Whittier and Kelly" or they used the nearest high school or Catholic parish.

[Junjie]

Thanks for the replies. If there aren't established names, that's useful to know too.

Jason, I agree with your point on the proliferation of made up names and was sort of hoping to avoid that by asking for feedback here... but again, if there just aren't these sorts of names then maybe intersection style labeling is best e.g. "Gratiot & Warren."

Hermod, I do like "Eastwood" for Gratiot/8 Mile a lot. Thanks for your suggestion. Even if it's not really in use, if it has a legitimate history and sounds like a normal, easy to remember place name then it should make a good label for a stop on the map. High schools and churches also sound like good sources of names but I'm not familiar with whether there are any well-known examples near the intersections I posted. I used a hospital for another stop [[St. John's) because it's a confluence for a number of east side bus lines.

[eastland]

FYI: 8 Mile and Gratiot is know as the Mohican-Regent neighborhood. Very strong block club going back decades.

There is a street called Eastwood that is just a block north of 7 Mile that goes from Kelly to at leaste Schoenherr.

[bust]

Junjie, I suggest a solution for lines that run the length of a street or avenue like the ones you describe running up Gratiot and Greenfield can have station stops named after the crossing street. No need to include Gratiot in the stop name when the line itself is already the Gratiot line. Besides, street names are much more specific [[and helpful) than neighborhood names. They'd eliminate the problem you'd encounter when stops fall between neighborhoods, where neighborhoods overlap, and when there are multiple stops within the same neighborhood. And it's a solution many cities already use. Only problem: it works less well for lines that zig zag frequently onto many streets. But that doesn't usually happen, and it wouldn't be a problem for regulars or anyone who knows the neighborhoods [[aka most people). It seems me that it would be only in those cases and the stop sits within a well known neighborhood or near a well known landmark that either of those could provide a better solution. I don't think neighborhood names and landmarks most people are unfamiliar with are particularly helpful.

[bust]

On the other hand, transit maps play a big role in shaping many people's conception of their city. If you're the type to want to play with that you could get creative. Are there places, people, or aspects of Detroit's history you want to emphasize? Here's a chance if it makes sense and manages to stick. Not suggesting you should.

It amuses me how many people who travel NYC mostly by subway and know the city primarily by its transit map are surprised how far uptown really is from downtown, and how narrow the island of Manhattan gets downtown. There are similar issues in London and elsewhere. Transit maps distort geography in favor of legibility.

In NYC when the Barclays Center was built they renamed the nearby subway stops at Pacific and Atlantic to include Barclays Center in the names. In this case it was useful and I'm not suggesting any controversy, but I'm sure the decision made people at Barclays and the developers of the stadium very happy.

[Junjie]

FYI: 8 Mile and Gratiot is know as the Mohican-Regent neighborhood. Very strong block club going back decades.

There is a street called Eastwood that is just a block north of 7 Mile that goes from Kelly to at leaste Schoenherr.

Interesting, thanks for the tips. On Google Maps it says "Regent Park" - does anyone use that? And on another map I used "Mohican Triangle" for that intersection.

[Junjie]

On the other hand, transit maps play a big role in shaping many people's conception of their city. If you're the type to want to play with that you could get creative. Are there places, people, or aspects of Detroit's history you want to emphasize? Here's a chance if it makes sense and manages to stick. Not suggesting you should.

Agree with everything you said about transit maps and perception. That's a big part of why I made the metro map for the area - just wanting to see what SE Michigan would look like that way.

I'm certainly not trying to rename anyone's neighborhood or part of the city. It's just that sometimes buses come together at places with obvious names [[Fairlane Town Center, St. John's Hospital, Northland, Highland Park, University District, Old Redford), but sometimes they come together at just... big intersections. So, I was hoping to get some insight into names for those places that would be fitting or have a connection to the place, but also be more memorable than just the cross street.

Using cross-streets isn't my favorite because it can get confusing when you want to label roads but also label the stops, which then have the same name. And it can end up like the Chicago El map, where there are 5 "Western" stations, 3 "Damen," etc. To me it's better to get a little creative and make each labeled stop unique [[without resorting to Faygo Heights or whatever!), if possible. But maybe it's what I'll end up having to do.

[Bigb23]

You might as well call it Faygo Heights, and if your map gets spread around enough in 5 years people on DetroitYes will be calling it that as if it was actually ever named that.

Along with Stroh's Place, Towne Club Hills, Vernor Meadows, and Mt. Atlas.

[Hermod]

While the Woodward, Grand River, Gratiot, Jefferson, and Hamilton streetcar lines ran straight [[except for their downtown loops), the other city lines zig-zagged all over the place. The Baker streetcar line began at the intersection of Van Dyke and Nevada and went west on Nevada to Mt Elliot, south on Davidson, west to Joseph Campau, south to Chene, south to Gratiot, southwest to Randolph, south to Monroe, west to Michigan, west to Porter, west to Brooklyn, north to Bagley, west to 23rd, and north to Vernor before entering a private right-of-way to the Ford Rouge Plant. Eastbound it made some different jags. The Baker was a heavily travelled line. The Charlevoix, Claremont, Crosstown, Fort-Kercheval, Fourteenth, Grand Belt, Oakman, and Woodmere lines were equally zig-zagged.

[ArchNigel]

Along with Stroh's Place, Towne Club Hills, Vernor Meadows, and Mt. Atlas.

Don't forget Better Made Meadows and Goebel Woods

Also, if my beloved Flint can be included, I'd be tempted to throw Paramount Park, Koegel Haven, and Salay Gardens into the ring as well

[Meddle]

The only 'major' ones I can remember are Rosedale Park [[Grand River/Fenkell/Southfield), Grandmont [[Grand River/Grandmont) and Brightmoor [[Fenkell/Burt Rd.) There was a subsection called North Rosedale [[McNichols/Outer Drive).

I think there was also a name for the odd area near Wyoming and Tireman. Maybe also for Seven Mile and Lahser.

[p69rrh51]

This map should help but there are many local names. Some of the local names are from the name of the subdivision.

[Crystal]

A handy site with high-res images of subdivision plats:

Statewide Search for Subdivision Plats

http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/platmaps/sr_subs.asp

[Junjie]

Thanks for all the info and links, everyone.

The only 'major' ones I can remember are Rosedale Park [[Grand River/Fenkell/Southfield), Grandmont [[Grand River/Grandmont) and Brightmoor [[Fenkell/Burt Rd.) There was a subsection called North Rosedale [[McNichols/Outer Drive).

Does "Grandmont-Rosedale" seem appropriate for Grand River/Fenkell/Southfield?

Anyone ever heard of "McDougall" for Gratiot/Mack or is that just a Google Maps-ism?

[ArchNigel]

Thanks for all the info and links, everyone.



Does "Grandmont-Rosedale" seem appropriate for Grand River/Fenkell/Southfield?

Anyone ever heard of "McDougall" for Gratiot/Mack or is that just a Google Maps-ism?

Grandmont-Rosedale is fairly appropriate for that area, seeing as the CDC for that area uses that name for that general area.

[kathy2trips]

The question is: Are you looking for the original place name designated at the time of development? I've found quite a few of these in [[mostly) the real estate section old newspapers from the time the area was developed.

There is a difference between a development, a neighborhood and a subdivision though the lines tend to blur depending on where you are.

Since I'm a historian, I prefer the actual names of the area at the time of development. For example, Yorkshire Woods was the name given to the area at the time of development, with segments being numbered, i.e. Yorkshire Woods No. 1, etc. They still retain that name today. In other words, it's an historically correct designation. So is Indian Village. West Viliage, however, is not. On the other hand, there is no reference of "East English Village" or "McDougall" as a neighborhood/subdivision that I can find before 1990.

My mom used to live on Concord near Charlevoix in the 1930s. I guess this would be "Islandview", the 1970s name given to the area. During and after the Civil War, it was a park, called Boulevard Park. Their claim to fame was the big Civil War re-enactments put on by veterans every summer. People would picnic, have fireworks, tell war stories and show the kiddies how bad the war was. Victorians were so weird, sometimes!

So, when the area was developed for housing around the 1900s, is was advertised as Boulevard Park. However, it was never called that by post-1900 arrivals, since they'd never known the area when it was, indeed, a park. The Civil War wasn't in the experience of the new European immigrants. When Ma would take me to the old neighborhood to visit, I'd ask her the name of the place, and she'd say "east Detroit".......meaning the east side of Detroit. Of course, she knew Eastpointe, formerly known as East Detroit [[est. 1929), as "Halfway". Or, she'd just give the street names: "I'm from Charlevoix and East Grand Boulevard." My grandparents called E.D. "Halfway" for years.

An article from The Detroit Free Press [[August 23, 1925) states that Ravenswood was the first "subdivision" in Detroit, established in 1887. I thought that was interesting. Yes, that's Ravenswood, with an "s".

It can get confusing sometimes. There was/is a development called "Morningside", but it was on the west side, not the east side.

Developers would buy farm land and name it, just like they do today. Sometimes they had no rhyme or reason, but often they did, as a marketing tool. That's why Yorkshire Woods and Nottingham on the east side, and Sherwood Forest on the west side were so popular with buyers; they were drawn to the Tudor and half-timbered style homes and street names of English people [[like King Arthur), places and things.

There were a lot of German street names in certain areas of Detroit's east side because Germans [[mostly Bavarians) arriving after the first German Unification in the 1870s were among the first to settle in the area. [[The mostly Catholic, beer-loving Bavarians thought the "godless, dour" Prussians were taking over and crowding them out.)

So to find a historical place name, this is what I do: I go to a real estate site like Zillow, Trulia or Realtor.com and find houses for sale in the area. Then, find out when they were built. Then go to the old newspapers for those years and see how they were marketed to the public. If you're in Detroit, go to the library. If not, get a subscription to the Detroit Free Press on newspapers.com. It's $30.00 for 6 months and LOADS of fun!