President Obama's Record on Clemency

[Zacha341]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/clemency

So far no one well known from Michigan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_Barack_Obama

Chelsea Manning yesterday...

[Scottathew]

I wonder if Mr. Snowden will see a pardon?

[Zacha341]

Perhaps Kwame Kilpatrick -- doubtful.

[Wesley Mouch]

I wonder if Mr. Snowden will see a pardon?

Has Snowden been convicted in abstentia? Or is xe at this point just a fugitive? And are fugitives eligible for pardons? I'd think you'd have to be convicted first before you can be pardoned. Maybe Snowden should've turned himself in before Trump.

So far, I've heard there are about a thousand pardons. More than any other president since Truman, and more than both Bushes combined.

Pardonees include unrepentant murderer Oscar Lopez-Rivera. From the NYDailyNews:

In 1999, President Bill Clinton offered to commute the sentences of 16 imprisoned FALN members. Most accepted, but López Rivera choked on the condition that he renounce his terrorist past. In 1998, he'd told a reporter, "The whole thing of contrition, atonement, I have problems with that."

Me, I think he should have kept Lopez-Rivera in jail and release Kwame. At least he didn't murder in cold blood on multiple occasions.

[bust]

...So far, I've heard there are about a thousand pardons. More than any other president since Truman, and more than both Bushes combined.

Pardonees include unrepentant murderer Oscar Lopez-Rivera...

Me, I think he should have kept Lopez-Rivera in jail and release Kwame. At least he didn't murder in cold blood on multiple occasions.

That didn't smell right so I checked the facts.

Obama has pardoned 148 people. He is tied with George HW Bush for granting the fewest pardons per month of his presidency ever since presidents were given the ability to pardon.

President	Months in Office	Pardons	Pardons/month
William McKinley	54	291	5.39
Theodore Roosevelt	90	668	7.42
William Taft	48	383	7.98
Woodrow Wilson	96	1087	11.32
Warren Harding	29	300	10.34
Calvin Coolidge	67	773	11.54
Herbert Hoover	96	672	7.00
Franklin D. Roosevelt	144	2849	19.78
Harry Truman	93	1913	20.57
Dwight Eisenhower	96	1110	11.56
John F. Kennedy	34	472	13.88
Lyndon Johnson	62	960	15.48
Richard Nixon	67	863	12.88
Gerald Ford	29	382	13.17
Jimmy Carter	48	534	11.13
Ronald Reagan	96	393	4.09
George H.W. Bush	48	74	1.54
Bill Clinton	96	396	4.13
George W. Bush	96	189	1.97
Barack Obama	96	148	1.54

The rest were commutations, which lessen the sentence but do not change the guilty verdict.

The vast majority of the prisoners whose sentences Obama commuted were serving harsh sentences for non-violent drug offenses, many of them life sentences. According to Reuters, the vast majority had already served far longer prison sentences than they would if they were convicted of the same crimes today. Efforts to shorten their sentences through legislation were blocked, like so many things, in Congress.

Lopez-Rivera was not convicted of a single murder or even hurting anyone. He was sentenced 55 years for sedition, and an additional 15 for trying to escape from jail. It sounds like he was a very bad guy. But I won't lose any sleep over the fact Obama commuted his 70 year sentence after he already spent 35 years in prison. He's 74 years old. I'm much more concerned about present threats to society.

I'm all but sure you know the facts and are following marching orders to intentionally misrepresent them here.

Lies are the current republican strategy. Never thought I'd be nostalgic for the days of GW Bush's strategery.

The US Department of Justice Clemency Statistics
https://www.justice.gov/pardon/clemency-statistics

Obama Grants 79 Prison Sentence Commutations
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN13H29D

Obama Commutes Sentence of F.A.L.N. Member Oscar Lopez Rivera
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/u...ez-rivera.html

[Zacha341]

These details need to be incorporate into https://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/clemency site. They do not break the actions down to this level, especially relative to the chart scale posted etc.

[Honky Tonk]

These details need to be incorporate into https://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/clemency site. They do not break the actions down to this level, especially relative to the chart scale posted etc.

Thanx for the link, Zach341, I've read that before and was looking for it this morning. The numbers posted in your link don't jive with the numbers in bust's post, so somewhere there's an untold story.

[JBMcB]

Has Snowden been convicted in abstentia? Or is xe at this point just a fugitive? And are fugitives eligible for pardons?

There is debate as to whether presidents can pardon people who haven't been convicted of a crime yet. Ford pardoned Nixon for any crimes he may have committed while he was president. It wasn't tested in court, but there doesn't appear to be any constitutional limit as to what the president can do in this case.

[JBMcB]

Lopez-Rivera was not convicted of a single murder or even hurting anyone. He was sentenced 55 years for sedition, and an additional 15 for trying to escape from jail. It sounds like he was a very bad guy. But I won't lose any sleep over the fact Obama commuted his 70 year sentence after he already spent 35 years in prison.

I wouldn't have a problem with it either, if he admitted guilt and renounced violence. Sounds like he never did either. Not sure for what basis clemency was given, but whatever, it's done.

[bust]

Thanx for the link, Zach341, I've read that before and was looking for it this morning. The numbers posted in your link don't jive with the numbers in bust's post, so somewhere there's an untold story.

Yes, thanks for the link. The data I posted is for pardons. I got it from The Department of Justice site. It also provides data for commutations. It lists 1176 for Obama. I don't know why the data on the DOJ and White House sites don't jive. I'm guessing the DOJ site hasn't been updated as recently as the White House site and so misses the most recent ones. Or maybe there's some other untold story. But the essence of the facts remain the same: Obama has pardoned historically few prisoners; he has commuted historically many sentences for people who have, by today's standards, more than served their time; Lopez-Rivera is not a murderer.

[bust]

The DOJ updated their data for the Obama administraton. They say he granted 212 total pardons and 1715 commutations. We can't cross reference it with data from the white house site because like so much else as of today that page is now dead. But according to the DOJ site, that's fewer pardons than any president except the Bushes, while significantly less than the Bushes totals combined. And many more commutations.

Haven't seen Wesley around here the past couple days. Is he attending the inauguration with the rest of the republican reputation management team? I hear they grossly overestimated how many clams casino they'd need to serve the crowd.

[Honky Tonk]

The DOJ updated their data for the Obama administraton. They say he granted 212 total pardons and 1715 commutations. We can't cross reference it with data from the white house site because like so much else as of today that page is now dead. But according to the DOJ site, that's fewer pardons than any president except the Bushes, while significantly less than the Bushes totals combined. And many more commutations.

Haven't seen Wesley around here the past couple days. Is he attending the inauguration with the rest of the republican reputation management team? I hear they grossly overestimated how many clams casino they'd need to serve the crowd.

I think he's in Washington with the rest of DEMs protestors, bashing out innocent shopkeeper's windows to show everyone you can't put into office the person the people elected.

[clubboss]

Haven't seen Wesley around here the past couple days. Is he attending the inauguration with the rest of the republican reputation management team? I hear they grossly overestimated how many clams casino they'd need to serve the crowd.

Chris Reason ‏@ChrisReason7 6 hours ago
Still plenty of room left at the inauguration... no records to be broken me thinks
Journalist @7NewsSydney

[bust]

Chris Reason ‏@ChrisReason7 6 hours ago
Still plenty of room left at the inauguration... no records to be broken me thinks
Journalist @7NewsSydney

But facts don't matter to this administration. Just wait to hear the "official" number he says attended. He'll say it was amaaazing.

Earlier today the background image he used for the official POTUS twitter account showed the celebrating crowd at the inauguration... of Barack Obama in 2009.

Trump’s New Twitter Photo Is Actually From Obama’s 2009 Inauguration
http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/01/d...uguration.html

[Jimaz]

...Earlier today the background image he used for the official POTUS twitter account showed the celebrating crowd at the inauguration... of Barack Obama in 2009.

Trump’s New Twitter Photo Is Actually From Obama’s 2009 Inauguration

...

It's not so easy to create fake news like that now that we have Google's search by image technology.

Wait. Is Trump creating the fake news that he so enjoys condemning?

[Wesley Mouch]

Yes, thanks for the link. The data I posted is for pardons. I got it from The Department of Justice site. It also provides data for commutations. It lists 1176 for Obama. I don't know why the data on the DOJ and White House sites don't jive. I'm guessing the DOJ site hasn't been updated as recently as the White House site and so misses the most recent ones. Or maybe there's some other untold story. But the essence of the facts remain the same: Obama has pardoned historically few prisoners; he has commuted historically many sentences for people who have, by today's standards, more than served their time; Lopez-Rivera is not a murderer.

Lopez-Rivera was a senior actor in an organization that clear killed. I agree that he was not personally charged nor convicted with murder. FALN [[Puero Rican independence warriors) killed. L-R admits being a member, and admits armed robbery and bomb-making and training. Its really not much of a leap to see that he was an accessory to murder since FALN has murdered. But yes, he's not a murderer. [[more on OL-R at wikipedia)

I may have been wrong on the Obama vs. history stats on clemency. I based that on an article in the Atlantic that seems to have disappeared. No matter. I don't have a problem with his clemency record, just his choices in a few cases, such as OL-R.

As most American's do, I believe that the US is among the finest countries of the world. That Obama pardons someone with no remorse for his role in death, and with utter contempt for the US -- I cannot understand.

The Detroit connection here were the pleas for Obama to pardon our popularly-elected former mayor, Kilpatrick. I'm glad that Obama didn't, but I would have respected it. Kwame did not commit armed robbery nor bombs designed to kill. He was just an egomaniac who made scores of bad decisions that cost Detroiters dearly. He is worse than many others who have served our city only by matter of degree. And he wasn't a murderer.

[clubboss]

But facts don't matter to this administration. Just wait to hear the "official" number he says attended. He'll say it was amaaazing.

Earlier today the background image he used for the official POTUS twitter account showed the celebrating crowd at the inauguration... of Barack Obama in 2009.

Trump’s New Twitter Photo Is Actually From Obama’s 2009 Inauguration
http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/01/d...uguration.html

“The Interior Department has suspended its Twitter activity after a bureau of the department — the National Park Service — retweeted a pair of posts Friday that appeared unsympathetic to President Donald Trump”.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/national-international/Interior-Department-Suspends-Twitter-After-Anti-Trump-Tweets-411410175.html

The first tweet "noted that the crowd for Trump was far smaller than the one that turned out for Barack Obama's inauguration in 2009. The second pointed out that webpages about some issues, including climate change, had been removed from the White House site".

Hope Detroityes doesn't get a email [[ending in .gov) demanding they remove this thread.

[clubboss]

But facts don't matter to this administration. Just wait to hear the "official" number he says attended. He'll say it was amaaazing.

Earlier today the background image he used for the official POTUS twitter account showed the celebrating crowd at the inauguration... of Barack Obama in 2009.

Trump’s New Twitter Photo Is Actually From Obama’s 2009 Inauguration
http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/01/d...uguration.html

The scene of Donald Trump's inauguration as US President on January 20 2017 [[L) and Barack Obama's first swearing in ceremony in 2009 Composite Reuters [[L) Getty Images [[R)



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7539876.html

[Jimaz]

... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/two-pictures-that-prove-donald-trump-is-lying-inauguration-crowds-washington-dc-womens-march-barack-a7539876.html

Around 500,000 people are thought to have marched in protest against Mr Trump on the weekend, with other demonstrations in cities across the world.

I don't recall any protesters at Obama's inauguration — at least not in public. I don't think any were even expected.

[Jimaz]

I recall a spectacular panorama of Obama's inauguration. Google found this one:
President Barack Obama's Inaugural Address by David Bergman.

It's remarkable how far you can zoom and pan with just your mouse. And yes, there are visible seams in the image.

Here's a different one identifying people in the image:
Inauguration 2013: Explore the scene outside the Capitol.

[GMan]

I don't recall any protesters at Obama's inauguration — at least not in public. I don't think any were even expected.

Why should they have been expected, Soros and the globalists got their preferred candidate elected.

[clubboss]

I don't recall any protesters at Obama's inauguration — at least not in public.

Neither do I, and I have never seen worldwide protests of an American
president.
Not even George W. Bush received this much negative attention beating Al Gore.

[bust]

Now the Trump administration has coined a new word for lies: "alternative facts". That's how Kellyanne Conway, Trump's former campaign manager and current counselor, described their lies on NBC's "Meet the Press" this morning. The people pushing fake news are not just some cretins who supported his campaign but the president himself. Anyone hoping he'd cut that out after lying his way into office must be sadly disappointed.

White House Pushes ‘Alternative Facts.’ Here Are the Real Ones.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/22/u...ite-house.html

If you're not a subscriber and already used this month's quota of free articles you can get to the article here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22W...+Real+Ones.%22

Meanwhile, fresh off declaring he's "at war with the media" Trump says he will choose what journalists can attend his press conferences. Until now, the non-partisan and non-profit White House Correspondents' Association has made the decision.

Donald Trump says he will pick reporters covering White House
http://tv.guardian.ng/news/world-new...ite-house/amp/

It's starting to look like the comparisons with Mussolini were no exaggeration. Is this what the beginnings of fascism look like? It's hard to believe our country could so quickly come to this. Are there no republicans with a conscience and a backbone willing to stand up against it?

[GMan]

Now the Trump administration has coined a new word for lies: "alternative facts". That's how Kellyanne Conway, Trump's former campaign manager and current counselor, described their lies on NBC's "Meet the Press" this morning. The people pushing fake news are not just some cretins who supported his campaign but the president himself. Anyone hoping he'd cut that out after lying his way into office must be sadly disappointed.

White House Pushes ‘Alternative Facts.’ Here Are the Real Ones.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/22/u...ite-house.html

If you're not a subscriber and already used this month's quota of free articles you can get to the article here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22W...+Real+Ones.%22

Meanwhile, fresh off declaring he's "at war with the media" Trump says he will choose what journalists can attend his press conferences. Until now, the non-partisan and non-profit White House Correspondents' Association has made the decision.

Donald Trump says he will pick reporters covering White House
http://tv.guardian.ng/news/world-new...ite-house/amp/

It's starting to look like the comparisons with Mussolini were no exaggeration. Is this what the beginnings of fascism look like? It's hard to believe our country could so quickly come to this. Are there no republicans with a conscience and a backbone willing to stand up against it?

It's the same with every administration. The media is just starting to complain that they are being called out when they were a major player in the last admin.
There were a lot of half truths out of Josh Earnest mouth.

[canuck]

It's the same with every administration. The media is just starting to complain that they are being called out when they were a major player in the last admin.
There were a lot of half truths out of Josh Earnest mouth.

Who needs a statesman when you can have a media star for President. Damned media. Lol. Orange is the new black.