Welcome To Trump World

[coracle]

I thought the open argument in the Oval Office is the way to go rather than the usual way of doing it in secret so the democrat “bed-wetters” can come out and put whatever spin on it they like.

It was clear that the President was representing ALL AMERICANS while the democrat bed-wetters were REPRESENTING democrats, SOCIALISTS and ILLEGAL ALIENS - but mainly ILLEGAL ALIENS.

[Canadian Visitor]

The cost of illegal immigration across the US is estimated at over 338 billion.

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa!

338 Billion USD, per year? Says Who? What's your source? Show your math!

The anti-illegal immigration group FAIR calculations a gross number of 134B USD, subtract taxes paid and they get 116B USD.

source: https://fairus.org/issue/publication...ates-taxpayers

***

Moreover, those costs include millions of LEGAL US citizens born to said illegals.

Totally legitimate to say that would not have happened IF.

BUT...

When you are busy calculating savings, newsflash, you don't get to deport all the legal Americans, ergo you don't get to save the money you spend on them.

That removes at least 1/3 of cost, maxing you out at about 75B USD gross.

Which also means, your savings drop precipitously in your wall-building scenario.

Further, wall building doesn't actually deport anyone anyway. And net new [[illegal) immigration, as yet, is not a huge portion of current or projected costs.

Finally, if you're to get even 1/2 the savings you would hope, you're going to have to deport the illegal parents of the legal American Citizens.

Ahem.....whose going to pay for the children who get to stay behind?

Since they're all going into foster care...........you guessed it!

Oh, and since you're deporting the ones who pay taxes, your bill just went up even more.

*********

Your Bullshit is thoroughly called every which way.

*********

PS, remember I oppose illegal immigration, think how much meaner I'd be to you if I didn't.

I just hate people who make stuff up and who state things as facts that aren't true.

[Richard]

^ and the gopher pops out of his hole once again.

I am thinking that you went around and counted all of the illegals and water boarded sanctuary cities into providing accurate data when it comes to illegals.

So lets go by your number of 75 billion and look back during the recession where illegals sent back to thier country of origin 120 billion.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lies-home.html

So we paid 75 billion out to a group that managed to send 120 billion home.

Did you figure any of that into your math?

If the point of it all stuck you in the eye would you be able to see it?

The wall prevents more from sneaking in while you deal with the rest.

You can test that theory and call bullsheet on it after you get into a boat,preferably in the middle of the ocean,take an axe,chop a hole in the bottom and start bailing,let us know the results.

When your done with that I have a free bridge for you as a reward,because I am such a nice guy.

I guess you are a bit slow on the concept of it does not matter what you personally hate.

[Maof]

I thought the open argument in the Oval Office is the way to go rather than the usual way of doing it in secret so the democrat “bed-wetters” can come out and put whatever spin on it they like.

He still thinks he doing a reality show...LOL! If he wants to take that route, I'm all for it.

[Maof]

In the meantime, Cohen sentenced to 3 years.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.29acc4551d39

[Richard]

The judge stressed financial crimes of tax evasion and lying to the bank,which half of the country was doing during 2006,so the main thing was tax evasion and a whole article of tears and blaming Trump.

He would have made a good democrat.

He was a lawyer,he should have known the whole just following orders does not work as a defense.

[aj3647]

In the meantime, Cohen sentenced to 3 years.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.29acc4551d39

Let's not forget that for well over a decade, Cohen was "Individual 1's" lawyer, personal "fixer", and had served as an Executive VP of the Trump [["Individual 1") Organization. Cohen was also Deputy Finance Chairman for the Republican National Committee until this year.

Let's not also forget that Cohen was just sentenced to prison for actions that Individual 1 claimed two days ago aren't even crimes. Seems the Judge and the U.S. Attorney's Office disagreed about that assessment.

[aj3647]

The judge stressed financial crimes of tax evasion and lying to the bank,which half of the country was doing during 2006,so the main thing was tax evasion and a whole article of tears and blaming Trump.

And here comes the spin, right on time! Everyone was committing fraud, so no big deal! You're so predictable. Or pathetic, that might be a better word.

Another witch nabbed, onto the next one. Get ready, it's coming. You can't stop it.

[jcole]

It was clear that the President was representing ALL AMERICANS

I don't know where you gathered that, because he certainly isn't representing what I want. Pretty much about anything

[coracle]

I thought the open argument in the Oval Office is the way to go rather than the usual way of doing it in secret so the democrat “bed-wetters” can come out and put whatever spin on it they like.

It was clear that the President was representing ALL AMERICANS while the democrat bed-wetters were REPRESENTING democrats, SOCIALISTS and ILLEGAL ALIENS - but mainly ILLEGAL ALIENS.

I totally agree with every word in your Post.

[Richard]

And here comes the spin, right on time! Everyone was committing fraud, so no big deal! You're so predictable. Or pathetic, that might be a better word.

Another witch nabbed, onto the next one. Get ready, it's coming. You can't stop it.

Via the link provided

“As a lawyer, Mr. Cohen should have known better. Tax evasion undercuts the government’s ability to provide essential services upon which we all depend,” the judge said.

Judges words,not mine.

Or are you implying that the judge is spinning it?

Christmas is coming so I guess we are all entitled to our wishes,did you place your bet on the 7 to one odds?

If you really believe what you are writing it is easy money.

Maybe it was like with Capone,they could not get him on anything else with proof,so they pull the tax evasion card,it kinda shows that they are desperate and hoping crybaby will come up with something after sitting in prison after a few months.

But they already know that as a lawyer in prison,he will have an easy 2.5 years and service members on deployment can spend up to a year without seeing their families and they are getting shot at.

So it will be a cakewalk for him,why would they give him up if he was their ace in the hole against Trump.

Or was it they felt that they could not get anything more substantial out of him so they clinked him.

[Richard]

I thought the open argument in the Oval Office is the way to go rather than the usual way of doing it in secret so the democrat “bed-wetters” can come out and put whatever spin on it they like.

It was clear that the President was representing ALL AMERICANS while the democrat bed-wetters were REPRESENTING democrats, SOCIALISTS and ILLEGAL ALIENS - but mainly ILLEGAL ALIENS.

That is why Pelosi kept repeating that they could find a way to work it out while Shumer just looked like he had to use the bathroom really bad.

She played it right and working it out should be the objective,but if you are pandering to the anti Trump crowd,anything that is actually good for Americans is bad.

[aj3647]

Via the link provided

“As a lawyer, Mr. Cohen should have known better. Tax evasion undercuts the government’s ability to provide essential services upon which we all depend,” the judge said.

Judges words,not mine.

Or are you implying that the judge is spinning it?

Cohen was found guilty on EIGHT felony counts:
-Five counts of tax evasion
-one count of making false statements to a financial institution
-one count of willfully causing an unlawful corporate contribution
-one count of making an excessive campaign contribution at the request of a candidate or campaign.

I'll leave it up to you to guess who the "candidate" is in that last felony count that Michael Cohen plead guilty to and just got sentenced to prison for. Hint, it's not Hillary!

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...weak-it-was-my

The prosecutors also said Cohen committed the campaign finance violations at the direction of "Individual-1," who is widely believed to be Trump.
Cohen concluded that he takes responsibility "for each act that I plead guilty to: The personal ones to me and those involving the President of the United States of America."

Cohen still has yet to be sentenced on his guilty plea for lying to Congress about Trump's plans to build a Trump Tower in Moscow. So there's another one we get to look forward to! In the meantime, the President has now been directly implicated by the U.S. Attorney's Office in a felony offense.

Like I said, something new every day. Every single day.

[aj3647]

Oh, and here's one more revelation for today:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...212-story.html

The U.S. attorney's office in New York says it won't prosecute the National Enquirer's parent company over its efforts to suppress an embarrassing story about Donald Trump during the 2016 presidential campaign.

Like Cohen, the tabloid publisher admitted it was trying to influence the election by protecting Trump from a damaging story.



As part of the deal, AMI acknowledged it made a $150,000 payment to the model "in concert" with the Trump campaign with the intent of influencing the election.


It requires AMI to cooperate with federal prosecutors in any investigation.

When the U.S. Attorney's Office stated in its sentencing documents that Cohen's crimes were "directed" by a political candidate labeled "Individual 1"[[Trump), most experts speculated that they must have some corroborating evidence aside from the personal testimony of the unreliable Michael Cohen. After all, they just implicated the President directly in a felony offense. Now it seems we know at least some of what the evidence is.

AMI Executives are now backing up Cohen's story. That they paid hush money to Karen McDougal to cover up her story in order to help Trump get elected and they did it in full coordination and with the full knowledge of Donald Trump. And they are receiving immunity from prosecution in exchange for their testimony against Trump.

Impeachment. It's coming.

[Canadian Visitor]

I totally agree with every word in your Post.

That makes one of you.

[Canadian Visitor]

So lets go by your number of 75 billion and look back during the recession where illegals sent back to thier country of origin 120 billion.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lies-home.html

So we paid 75 billion out to a group that managed to send 120 billion home.

No, you did not. Nor did your government. You didn't even read the article you dim-witted troll.

That article refers to remittances by LEGAL immigrants. Did you notice that the largest chunk of money didn't go to Mexico or anywhere else to the south?

It went to CHINA, with the second largest amount going to INDIA.

Not folks you're going to keep out by building a wall.

Duh.

.......because I am such a nice guy.

No you're not. Your an ass. You waste my time and the time of everyone here spewing completely unsubstantiated crap.

You then cite a source to prove you're right, when in fact the source says the complete opposite!

That's not nice. That's rude.

I guess you are a bit slow on the concept of it does not matter what you personally hate.

We agree you're more a 'what' than a 'who'

[jcole]

I thought the open argument in the Oval Office is the way to go rather than the usual way of doing it in secret so the democrat “bed-wetters” can come out and put whatever spin on it they like.

It was clear that the President was representing ALL AMERICANS while the democrat bed-wetters were REPRESENTING democrats, SOCIALISTS and ILLEGAL ALIENS - but mainly ILLEGAL ALIENS.

I totally agree with every word in your Post.

That is not surprising.

[oladub]

Indeed.

But you still haven't answered the question. When is Trump being jailed for mass-hiring of illegals and Melania deported for arriving as an illegal?

I mean, no one is gonna take you seriously re. immigration if you simultaneously claim to be "anti-illegal" yet blindly worship someone who mass-hires illegals and even marries an illegal.

You are incorrect to claim that I "still haven't answered the question". I included your question that I responded to. If you mean another question in this, some other thread, ever asked in history, or whatever else is going on in your head, please don't claim I didn't answer the question I cited answering.

But I'll play along with your other question. If Trump violated an immigration law and the statute of limitations doesn't cover it, he should be punished just like every other cheating employer or illegal alien. It would be a small price to pay to get rid of 11M illegal aliens. Since you are so concerned about observing immigration laws, I'm sure you will agree.

Melania Trump obtained US citizenship on a visa reserved for immigrants with "extraordinary ability" and "sustained national and international acclaim", according to a report in the Washington Post.

You can disagree that she has extraordinary ability but that is how she gained a citizenship. I know its a leftist talking point to claim she was or is an illegal alien but the reality is that she is now a citizen. You might as well make a big deal about parties Trump went to in high school and what he did there if you want to win an irrelevancy award. That was tried recently with the Supreme Court nominee.

[oladub]

I agree that something needs to be done about illegal entry but this administration is just pissing people off with all the rhetoric and violent ways of going about it. There needs to be an amnesty for those who are here and have been useful citizens and not criminals. Deportation to those harmful to the US. Then worry about getting the border secured, but not by Hadrian's Wall. Fences could be useful or better manned and more border crossings like we have with Canada. As you say, a lot of this has to do with over-stayed visa's so better policing by the Immigration dept via computer is needed too

Which other laws should be rewarded? I don't like paying taxes and stopping at stop signs when no one is coming. Those are less serious crimes than violating immigration laws. I want to be able to go through stop signs if foreigners can breeze past borders. Attempting to put a monetary value on U.S. citizenships is impossible but a typical family of four requires 13 years of public schooling x $12,300/year/child. That's $319,800 for educating two kids for starters assuming no one in the family ever needs food, health care, housing or other public assistance. The money comes from taxpayers and the hides of U.S. citizens, particularly lower skilled Americans, who have to compete with cheaper foreign labor and scrce government handouts. Democrats used to support American workers but seem to have other priorities these days. I'm with you on fences rather than expensive walls susceptible to actions of economic traitors though. At least fences wouldn't cost as much and are nearly as effective.

In 2006, Paul Krugman wrote that America was experiencing “large increases in the number of low-skill workers relative to other inputs into production, so it’s inevitable that this means a fall in wages.”

[Canadian Visitor]

Which other laws should be rewarded? I don't like paying taxes and stopping at stop signs when no one is coming. Those are less serious crimes than violating immigration laws. I want to be able to go through stop signs if foreigners can breeze past borders. Attempting to put a monetary value on U.S. citizenships is impossible but a typical family of four requires 13 years of public schooling x $12,300/year/child. That's $319,800 for educating two kids for starters assuming no one in the family ever needs food, health care, housing or other public assistance. The money comes from taxpayers and the hides of U.S. citizens, particularly lower skilled Americans, who have to compete with cheaper foreign labor and scrce government handouts. Democrats used to support American workers but seem to have other priorities these days. I'm with you on fences rather than expensive walls susceptible to actions of economic traitors though. At least fences wouldn't cost as much and are nearly as effective.

In 2006, Krugman wrote that America was experiencing “large increases in the number of low-skill workers relative to other inputs into production, so it’s inevitable that this means a fall in wages.”

Your base argument - the law should be enforced and ought not to be so easy to circumvent - is one most people, regardless of their partisan or ideological predispositions can get behind.

Its your failure to be pragmatic that does your argument harm.

Based on the evidence I've seen, there are roughly 4,000,000 legal American Citizens who are the children of illegals.

That's done. You can't repeal someone's birthright citizenship after the fact.

So those 4,000,000 are staying.

Are you going to deport their parents, if the children are legal dependents under the age of 18?

Then they're about to get a whole lot more expensive as you put them into foster care!

This is the thing. Its not about rewarding law breakers.

Its about understanding that you can't unscramble the egg.

Some of this is done, for better or worse.

That's completely apart from issues of millions of people disappearing from their jobs overnight, without notice, as if there were a line millions long of Americans ready to take their place.

Its just not so.

That doesn't mean you reward, or forgive anyone, let alone everyone.

It means you present a workable solution.

For many, cutting off their access to legal employment by enforcing existing laws against employers alone would suffice and more than likely, at least 2,000,000 would return home on their own.

For others, it will mean some form of amnesty as its the only practical choice.

That does not mean you don't penalize them in some way.

If, for instance, they haven't paid legal income tax since arriving, and have been employed, you might make them pay back some portion of what they ought to have paid.

You might also require some form of community service as a give back, 4 hours per week, 50 weeks a year for 2 years?

Lots of options.

The point is to propose a solution not only that the majority can get behind, but that is physically and financially practical to deliver.

***

PS you do know that if you run a stop sign, and aren't charged at the time, that an officer can't actually charge you later, right?

You also know that there's a statute of limitations on most crimes, including many very serious ones.

Finally, you know that people can be pardoned or amnestied for any number of offenses, its not unique to immigration.

Canada is in the process of pardoning people who were convicted of simple possession of pot.

We previously wiped out charges related to gay sex after the state got out of the business of criminalizing people's private lives. [[a long time ago)

Its part of how you move forward.

[Bham1982]

But I'll play along with your other question. If Trump violated an immigration law and the statute of limitations doesn't cover it, he should be punished just like every other cheating employer or illegal alien.

There's no "if". None. Trump has already repeatedly been found to hire illegals, by the hundreds. Trump, in court, has admitted culpability. So why would you support someone who brazenly hires illegals if you care about illegal immigration? The answer is you don't, you just hate brown people and want to make their lives miserable.

Melania Trump obtained US citizenship on a visa reserved for immigrants with "extraordinary ability" and "sustained national and international acclaim", according to a report in the Washington Post.

What's your point? You're fine with illegals practicing immigration fraud?

No one denies that Melania is currently a legal citizen, but the fact is that she was an illegal who obtained legal residency via fraud. She claimed to have never worked in the U.S. which is a lie. She came illegally the same way 90% of illegals come- via plane, under tourist visa, then started working off the books.

I know its a leftist talking point to claim she was or is an illegal alien but the reality is that she is now a citizen.

Absurd, it's not a "leftist talking point", it's reality, confirmed by WSJ and other conservative news sources. It's as much a "leftist talking point" as saying water is wet or the Pope is Catholic.

There's no debate she was working under a tourist visa, as her pay stubs have been published. Unless you support her deportation [[no statute of appeals on immigration fraud) then it's quite clear you don't give a damn about immigration laws.

[Richard]

No, you did not. Nor did your government. You didn't even read the article you dim-witted troll.

That article refers to remittances by LEGAL immigrants. Did you notice that the largest chunk of money didn't go to Mexico or anywhere else to the south?

It went to CHINA, with the second largest amount going to INDIA.

Not folks you're going to keep out by building a wall.

Duh.



No you're not. Your an ass. You waste my time and the time of everyone here spewing completely unsubstantiated crap.

You then cite a source to prove you're right, when in fact the source says the complete opposite!

That's not nice. That's rude.



We agree you're more a 'what' than a 'who'

I am not sure where you come up with this WE stuff,must be that frog in your pocket.

If I am a waste of your time then why do you crawl out of your self imposed block in order to comment?

You just do not make sense,but then again one cannot really expect much from an adult that enjoys the perks of free health care etc. at the expense of school children,the kind of person that eats before their children do is just really low in the order of scumbags.

It is not your job to regulate the time people spend on here or how they spend it,you just think to much of yourself.

In case that you have not noticed a snail could come on here and say trump sucks and gain supporters or in your case a snake.

It really does not take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

Now all you have to do is show me in the link I provided where it specifically reads remittances by legal immigrants.

It does say the numbers obtained were transactions recorded by western union,I am not sure if you have ever visited an immigrant community but money transfer locations are as popular as a corner store and are not recorded by western union,so that number would be higher by far.

Who provides healthcare in the United States for migrant workers?

And you were supposed to be on a boat practicing the finger in the dike theory,I guess you got scared.

[Canadian Visitor]

If I am a waste of your time then why do you crawl out of your self imposed block in order to comment?

To refute the complete BS you post that you claim is true, lest anyone actually believe a single word you say.

.....but then again one cannot really expect much from an adult that enjoys the perks of free health care etc. at the expense of school children,the kind of person that eats before their children do is just really low in the order of scumbags.

This is not only bullshit; and even you, as ignorant as you are have to know that, its mean-spirited bullshit aiming to malign the character of an entire nation based on non-facts.

I have never insulted the United States of America, not even when I disagree with the policies of its government[[s), or some of its truly despicable citizens [[ie. you)

I even confine my insults to you to the facts [[you're wrong 99% of the time, making that easy) and even then I'm only insulting because you go there first and I don't shrink from a fight.

Objectively, child poverty is LOWER in Canada than in the United States. Period. Full Stop.

Source: https://www.oecd.org/els/CO_2_2_Child_Poverty.pdf

There is no national school lunch program, because education is provincial.

And as previously noted we give low income parents CASH to buy their children whatever they need.

But you have never let the facts get in the way of you posting more un-true garbage.

It is not your job to regulate the time people spend on here or how they spend it,you just think to much of yourself.

I'll grant you that I have a healthy ego; but it doesn't possess me to regulate that over which I have no control nor a desire to have such.

What I do have is the ability not to allow you to control a narrative with complete and utter bullshit, by posting the real facts, supported by evidence.

Get over it, snowflake!

Now all you have to do is show me in the link I provided where it specifically reads remittances by legal immigrants.

First off, I have to show you nothing.

Second, its your article.

Third, I already pointed out where the remittances were going.

Are you now suggesting that there's an epidemic of illegal Chinese immigrants in the US? Really? You know exactly where to go!

[oladub]

Your base argument - the law should be enforced and ought not to be so easy to circumvent - is one most people, regardless of their partisan or ideological predispositions can get behind.

Its your failure to be pragmatic that does your argument harm.

Based on the evidence I've seen, there are roughly 4,000,000 legal American Citizens who are the children of illegals.

That's done. You can't repeal someone's birthright citizenship after the fact.

So those 4,000,000 are staying.

Are you going to deport their parents, if the children are legal dependents under the age of 18?

Then they're about to get a whole lot more expensive as you put them into foster care!

This is the thing. Its not about rewarding law breakers.

Its about understanding that you can't unscramble the egg.

Some of this is done, for better or worse.

That's completely apart from issues of millions of people disappearing from their jobs overnight, without notice, as if there were a line millions long of Americans ready to take their place.

Its just not so.

That doesn't mean you reward, or forgive anyone, let alone everyone.

It means you present a workable solution.

For many, cutting off their access to legal employment by enforcing existing laws against employers alone would suffice and more than likely, at least 2,000,000 would return home on their own.

For others, it will mean some form of amnesty as its the only practical choice.

That does not mean you don't penalize them in some way.

If, for instance, they haven't paid legal income tax since arriving, and have been employed, you might make them pay back some portion of what they ought to have paid.

You might also require some form of community service as a give back, 4 hours per week, 50 weeks a year for 2 years?

Lots of options.

The point is to propose a solution not only that the majority can get behind, but that is physically and financially practical to deliver.

***

PS you do know that if you run a stop sign, and aren't charged at the time, that an officer can't actually charge you later, right?

You also know that there's a statute of limitations on most crimes, including many very serious ones.

Finally, you know that people can be pardoned or amnestied for any number of offenses, its not unique to immigration.

Canada is in the process of pardoning people who were convicted of simple possession of pot.

We previously wiped out charges related to gay sex after the state got out of the business of criminalizing people's private lives. [[a long time ago)

Its part of how you move forward.

Pragmatism realizes that subsidizing crime or anything else encourages more of the same. Reagan legalized 5M illegal aliens in returned for promised fences and other get tough measure that never materialized. Now we have 11M additional illegal aliens and, like you say, millions of their children. We tried that. It failed. Congress could pass a Constitutional amendment to clarify "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" but that isn't going to happen.

Yes, I would deport their parents so as not to encourage more anchor babies and birth tourism legal under today's law. When bank robbers or any other criminals are punished, their children usually take a hit. Why should the children of foreign criminals be given preferential treatment over the children of American criminals? That isn't uniform justice.

By all means, punish the cheating employers of illegal non-citizens. Which Democrats, name one, are advocating that? Even Trump is silent on that. Let employers reimburse taxpayers for educational and other costs incurred by their illegal employees and families. Why not let all the apologists of illegal aliens here on this board voluntarily help repay such taxpayer costs and otherwise personally sponsor illegal aliens?

Better yet, why not offer to send our illegal aliens to Canada in lieu of punishment. You might want to financially sponsor a family. Your suggestion that illegal aliens do 400 hours of community service times $15?/hour =$6,000 which wouldn't even cover half of taxpayer costs for just one year on one of their children's public school costs. Figure out how they, or better yet, their employers, could pay back a few hundred thousand dollars per illegal family and get back to us.

[jcole]

Which other laws should be rewarded? I don't like paying taxes and stopping at stop signs when no one is coming. Those are less serious crimes than violating immigration laws. I want to be able to go through stop signs if foreigners can breeze past borders. Attempting to put a monetary value on U.S. citizenships is impossible but a typical family of four requires 13 years of public schooling x $12,300/year/child. That's $319,800 for educating two kids for starters assuming no one in the family ever needs food, health care, housing or other public assistance. The money comes from taxpayers and the hides of U.S. citizens, particularly lower skilled Americans, who have to compete with cheaper foreign labor and scrce government handouts. Democrats used to support American workers but seem to have other priorities these days. I'm with you on fences rather than expensive walls susceptible to actions of economic traitors though. At least fences wouldn't cost as much and are nearly as effective.

In 2006, Paul Krugman wrote that America was experiencing “large increases in the number of low-skill workers relative to other inputs into production, so it’s inevitable that this means a fall in wages.”

So apparently the claims that the immigration issue is all the fault of the "left" is as much bullshit as all the other bullshit laid at our feet. I say I agree with tightening borders, and all you can do is ridicule me for not wanting to deport people who have lived her and been good citizens and tearing them away from their legal children. I should know better than to try to reason or offer solutions to someone on "the right".
I can't see there being any kind of cooperation if the right can't even give an inch on deporting everyone and locking the doors. So much for the great melting pot.