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  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimaz View Post
    The recent unusual flood of three posts of the same image reveals the desperate (x3!) overcompensation for:

    Steven Colbert is such an annoying little wussy fuck, isn't he?

  2. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    How can people say/freak out over what is in a health care bill when it has not even been presented yet?
    The revised version of the Senate bill has been presented, or at least leaked.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/13/politi...ext/index.html

    Even the rich get screwed in that one. Only young and relatively healthy people (who don't need health insurance and wouldn't have to pay a penalty) are the winners.
    Last edited by 313WX; July-16-17 at 06:56 AM.

  3. #153

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    I never got that part about not needing insurance whether young and healthy or old and not. Frankly, anything can happen at any time to reverse one's fortune. Universal Health Care provider coverage in case of disease but also accidental mishaps of varying importance. Why is this such an obtuse concept stateside?

  4. #154

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    Steven Colbert is such an annoying little wussy fuck, isn't he?
    Only in your eyes apparently, millions of others disagree.

    And read your post to wussy fuck your self.
    Last edited by Bigb23; July-16-17 at 07:39 AM.

  5. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck View Post
    I never got that part about not needing insurance whether young and healthy or old and not. Frankly, anything can happen at any time to reverse one's fortune. Universal Health Care provider coverage in case of disease but also accidental mishaps of varying importance. Why is this such an obtuse concept stateside?
    True, anything can happen.

    That said, there are a couple facts to consider.

    1. *Statistically*, young and healthy people are unlikely to experience a health crisis that would require the need for insurance. That's when your muscles, bones and immune system are all in their prime.

    2. Life is all about making tough choices. While many Millennials would *prefer* to have insurance coverage, when they're struggling to find good paying / secure jobs and are buried under hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt that they can never discharge in bankruptcy, it's hard to justify signing up for an additional expense (that's going to cost them thousands of additional dollars yearly) for a service they're unlikely to ever use.

    BTW, I do support "Universal Health Care" and Millennials overwhelmingly support it as well. That's why they came out in droves for Bernie Sanders, who was the Democratic candidate strongly pushing for a Single-Payer system, or at least a Public Option.
    Last edited by 313WX; July-16-17 at 08:06 AM.

  6. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck View Post
    I never got that part about not needing insurance whether young and healthy or old and not. Frankly, anything can happen at any time to reverse one's fortune. Universal Health Care provider coverage in case of disease but also accidental mishaps of varying importance. Why is this such an obtuse concept stateside?
    I'm ok with a single payer plan like those of Canadian provinces. However, the 10th Amendment of the US Constitution strongly suggests that because providing health care insurance is not a power delegated to the US federal government, that such options are delegated to states. My question is why no blue state has advanced a single payer health plan. My answer is that Democratic politicians are as much on the hook for campaign contributions from the same factions as Republicans.

    I once listened to the Canadian Council from Chicago explain why Canadians pay only 60% as much for health care as US citizens. His top three reasons were that lawyers, bureaucrats, and insurance interests were largely cut out. Other significant reasons included province wide bulk prices for pharmaceuticals and lower doctor pay offset by no need for medical liability insurance to pass along.

    California recently put forth a single payer plan but it must have kept lawyers, bureaucrats, insurance and Rx profits feeding from the health care trough because it would have cost over twice as much as California's present budget. Vermont tried to advance a single payer plan under Obama's presidency but its plan was scuttled by Obamacare bureaucrats in Washington who insisted that societally unaffordable Obamacare, with its lawyers, bureaucrats, and corporate profits, be kept at the core of any single payer plan. Democrats in Washington are just using single payer as an issue as long as Trump is President for 4-8 years. Meanwhile, no Democratic governor of any solid blue state wants to threaten major campaign contributors.

  7. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigb23 View Post
    Only in your eyes apparently, millions of others disagree.

    And read your post to wussy fuck your self.
    Millions of people think McDonald's is the cat's ass, (which it probably is) but that doesn't mean it's good or good for you. Oh, and thank you, you too.
    Last edited by Honky Tonk; July-16-17 at 09:51 AM.

  8. #158
    Join Date
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    My question is why no blue state has advanced a single payer health plan. My answer is that Democratic politicians are as much on the hook for campaign contributions from the same factions as Republicans.
    Yes. Too many politicians of both parties are bought by the insurance and pharma industries.

    https://youtu.be/Ng2FNvShMpo

  9. #159

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    To 313wx and oladub,

    Bernie Sanders also campaigned on the issue of lower tuitions which are another part of the big picture as you stated, 313wx. Another reason for high cost of medical is the vast difference in costs that are incurred by medical faculty graduates. Most wealthy countries have a fraction of the high tuitions and some don't have any. I believe Canada has the 2nd highest cost of meds after the US because of our proximity. Pharma companies always invoke the possibility of moving their HQs and labs from Canadian cities when questions about cost reduction arise. So, in a system where the high education fees are normal, the cost deferred to insurers amalgamating the monies to Hospitals and clinics, the cost needs to be high.

    Who profits the most? The insurer. He can justify the high cost and benefits from a higher margin than in other countries. The system may have fewer hurdles in providing services, accruing technology because institutions can always add on the costs since the private insurer has fewer stops than the Universal one. Insurers want Health Care to be expensive and will do everything possible to maintain ever-growing margins. This includes, indeed justifies ever higher education costs. These entry level costs to the medical profession are part of the conditioning that goes with approval for a lifestyle, a set of privileges that sets apart doctors from the rest in a well planned way, and again, it all seems very normal.

  10. #160

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    I mentioned the Canadian Consul. This was about 10 years ago. He made a couple of points about Canadian single payer plans' treatment of doctors. At the time, doctors could only be sued for a maximum of $10,000 in Canada. This meant that there was no need for doctors to buy liability insurance and pass those costs on. Consider if a doctor works 220 days a year and has to pay e.g. $80,000/year liability insurance. That would work out to about $320 of liability insurance a doctor has to pass on to however many patients he/she sees on an average day. Also, when government paid for medical school tuition, doctors could not cite the sacrifice they went through paying medical school tuition as a basis for making mega-salaries for the rest of their careers. As it stands, Democrats are the party most opposed to tort reform liability limits.

  11. #161

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    Yes. The above point you bring up serves to illustrate the huge profits insurers make when the legal system feeds on the medical system. Now, try to disentangle and do away with all that whipped cream that topped this lucrative cake for so long, alongside the alternative systems worldwide that followed another path.
    Last edited by canuck; July-16-17 at 11:57 PM.

  12. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honky Tonk View Post
    Millions of people think McDonald's is the cat's ass, (which it probably is) but that doesn't mean it's good or good for you. Oh, and thank you, you too.
    Haven't tried the cats ass but I never pass on Sausage McMuffin with Egg and Cheese on a Bagel slathered with ketchup and fries on the side with ketchup; washed down with a Senior Coffee. I gorra go, it's given me the urge!

    While I'm wolfing "them" down I'll be enjoying looking at Jimaz post #140, which did my job for me, by adding to the "recent unusual flood" of the picture as well as prompting your own added reproduction attached to appropriate comments.

    Life is good at Mcdonald's at breakfast time. (I might try the cat's ass).
    Last edited by coracle; July-17-17 at 07:15 AM.

  13. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    What *has* Trump achieved besides killing the TPP and stepping up the enforcement of illegal immigration (I give him credit for and support both)? Honest question.
    My biggest disappointment with Trump was when he unconstitutionally attacked a Syrian airbase and shot down a Syrian plane. I was beginning to think the neocons had gotten to him. Today he may have redeemed himself. This is 'huge' as Trump would say.

    Syria war: Trump 'ends CIA arms programme for rebels'


    Kerry/Obama/H. Clinton foreign policy, condoned by too many Republicans, unconstitutionally helped overthrow Khaddafi and attempted to overthrow Assad leading to hundreds of thousands of Arab deaths and millions of refugees. It was so insane that rebel factions armed by the CIA were fighting rebels armed by the Pentagon. If true and assuming other funding of 'rebels' by the US has also ended, this act of Trump will do more to end the war in Syria and the outflow of refugees than anything else Trump could have done.

    Also related to your questions: Trump trade negotiators, unlike past administrations, did not buckle in talks with China. This isn't necessarily good but suggests that Trump is making an effort to keep his campaign promises to better uphold the US with regards to balance of trade with China. If this keeps up, Trump won't get to make million dollar speeches in Japan, Russia, and China, like other recently retired Presidents.

  14. #164

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    Let the churches fund the universal healthcare... just sayin'

  15. #165

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    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/...9321497551182/

    I'm surprised this action didn't receive more discussion from the media, as I see it as a direct shot at the President. A 98-2 vote is rare these days, and I think Tillerson's explanation is exactly why it did pass 98-2. Even Republicans speaking publicly for him are secretly jumping ship. It also brings up the effects the Russian investigation and other lunacies of this administration may have long-term when it comes to eroding the powers of the Executive branch.

  16. #166

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    The two votes against increased sanctions were those of Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders.

  17. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by oladub View Post
    The two votes against increased sanctions were those of Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders.
    Sounds about right.

    Something tells me that deep down, Bernie isn't buying the Russia BS either (seeing it for what it really is, a distraction by Hillbots) and is only towing the line to appease the Democrats.

  18. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by coracle View Post
    Haven't tried the cats ass but I never pass on Sausage McMuffin with Egg and Cheese on a Bagel slathered with ketchup and fries on the side with ketchup; washed down with a Senior Coffee.

    Mmmmmmmm.... Heart stopping goodness!

  19. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bong-Man View Post
    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/...9321497551182/
    .................................................. ..........................
    ...
    This exemplifies the deep state as again they try to weaken the presidency and it's powers if it goes against their desires, not the countries interests.

    If Mueller is expanding his investigation into D.T.'s business holdings, I hope he is willing to look at other prominent Russian dealings.

    Starting with H.R.C. okaying the deal for U.S. uranium mining interests to be sold to a Russian company and the Clinton foundations enrichment with a donation from the purchaser.
    How about Biden son's contracts with a Ukranian Oil company? Or Harry Reid's son's involvement with a Chinese Solar Company. Don't forget Tillerson's Exxon involvement and his involvement over Russia sanction violations. What about Podesta's involvment in a Russian company with ties to the Kremlin that pumped $35million into a small "green energy" startup with the ok of H.R.C.

    There's plenty of fish to fry. But they keep fishing the same fishing hole hoping for a catch.
    By keeping the president in check and preventing his policies from going into effect, lawmakers protect their vital interest of making $$$.

  20. #170

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    The two no votes had more to do with Iran than Russia. Paul usually thinks most sanctions are a waste of time, no matter who it involves. Bernie claims to have voted no due to the timing of the action. Iran had just been attacked by ISIS. He also claimed additional sanctions would put the Iran nuke agreement at risk.

    This exemplifies the deep state as again they try to weaken the presidency and it's powers if it goes against their desires, not the countries interests.
    Donations and normal commerce are a far cry from securing loans from an adversary, especially when you're a candidate for the Presidency. Considering Paul Manafort's outstanding loan, I'm sure Mr. Mueller will be digging quite a ways back not only into Donald's finances, but of all the 'players' who have now been identified. We already know Mueller's digging there, or the Senate wouldn't have had to ask him for clearance for the 'players' to testify next week. I don't see Donald's threat towards Mueller investigating his private finances any different than his past threat about 'existing audio tapes' towards Comey. He's blowing smoke, because that's all he can do.

    My personal peeve is the current status of Jared Kushner. With what we already know, why does this man still have security clearances for anything ? Is someone afraid he won't be able to secure lasting peace in the Middle-East for the rest of us ?

    If this keeps up, Trump won't get to make million dollar speeches in Japan, Russia, and China, like other recently retired Presidents.
    No, but insider deals on resorts, hotels, and golf courses will still be an option....crappy ties too.

  21. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMan View Post

    Starting with H.R.C. okaying the deal for U.S. uranium mining interests to be sold to a Russian company and the Clinton foundations enrichment with a donation from the purchaser.
    Snopes debunked this conspiracy theory:
    http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinto...m-russia-deal/

    1) The Uranium One deal was not Clinton’s to veto or approve
    2) Despite transfer of ownership, the uranium remained in the U.S.
    3) The timing of most of the donations to the Clinton Foundation does not match

    Why should Robert Mueller waste his time investigating Right Wing conspiracy theories? Let me guess, next he should investigate Pizzagate? You know, just because you read something on InfoWars doesn't make it true.


    As for your "Deep State" Right Wing conspiracy theory talking point: Robert Mueller was appointed by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. Who appointed Rod Rosenstein to be Deputy AG? Was it Obama? Clinton? Oh wait it was Donald J Trump. Dude was literally hand-picked by Trump Himself. ZOMG Donald Trump is part of the Deep State!
    Last edited by aj3647; July-21-17 at 09:16 AM.

  22. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by aj3647 View Post
    Snopes debunked this conspiracy theory:
    http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinto...m-russia-deal/

    1) The Uranium One deal was not Clinton’s to veto or approve
    2) Despite transfer of ownership, the uranium remained in the U.S.
    3) The timing of most of the donations to the Clinton Foundation does not match

    Why should Robert Mueller waste his time investigating Right Wing conspiracy theories? Let me guess, next he should investigate Pizzagate? You know, just because you read something on InfoWars doesn't make it true.


    As for your "Deep State" Right Wing conspiracy theory talking point: Robert Mueller was appointed by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. Who appointed Rod Rosenstein to be Deputy AG? Was it Obama? Clinton? Oh wait it was Donald J Trump. Dude was literally hand-picked by Trump Himself. ZOMG Donald Trump is part of the Deep State!
    So Snopes is the new standard eh? Hillary's state dept approved the deal. There is a lot of debate about the Snopes site.

    As far as a right wing deep state, who said it was just the right wing? I hope this investigation brings congress and the lobbyists workings to light. There are a lot of Rich "public servants"

  23. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMan View Post
    So Snopes is the new standard eh? Hillary's state dept approved the deal. There is a lot of debate about the Snopes site.
    They provided a detailed, point-by-point rebuttal of the conspiracy theory and provided sources. Do you care to dispute those points, or are you simply going to attack the source without justification?

    Ah yes, "there is a lot of debate" about Snopes. Is that equivalent of Trump's "some people are saying?"

    Fine. Forget Snopes then. Here's another debunking from the Pulitzer Prize-winning Politifact.com.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...inton-got-pai/

    Facts matter. Evidence matters. If you want to make claims, back them up with sources.

    It doesn't matter. No amount of facts or evidence is going to dissuade you from believing what you choose to believe, even if what you believe is objectively wrong. We live in Trump World now, where facts don't matter anymore. Reality is whatever Donald Trump and Fox News and Alex Jones says it is.

  24. #174

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    Meanwhile, today in Trump World, Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort (dubbed the "Florida White House" because Trump spends so much time there) has applied for 70 H-2B foreign worker visas. During "Made in America" week, no less.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mar-a-la...-america-week/

    Trump's private resort asked for the visas so they could hire 15 housekeepers, 20 cooks and 35 waiters from foreign countries to work at the premiere Trump-owned property.

    I guess he couldn't find Americans to do those jobs? Didn't want to raise wages to attract qualified American workers?

  25. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by aj3647 View Post
    Meanwhile, today in Trump World, Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort (dubbed the "Florida White House" because Trump spends so much time there) has applied for 70 H-2B foreign worker visas. During "Made in America" week, no less.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mar-a-la...-america-week/

    Trump's private resort asked for the visas so they could hire 15 housekeepers, 20 cooks and 35 waiters from foreign countries to work at the premiere Trump-owned property.

    I guess he couldn't find Americans to do those jobs? Didn't want to raise wages to attract qualified American workers?
    Let's hope the press finds time from the Russia story to ask.

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