Welcome To Trump World

[Zacha341]

and then there's this guy....

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...lso-ncna883676

Pelosi responds...

Pelosi: "I Don't Even Know Why There Aren't Uprisings All Over The Country" Over Migrant Child Separation

[Jimaz]

Pelosi shoots back! Uprisings to commence! Read in full......

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/14/pelosi_i_dont_even_know_wh...here_arent_uprisings_ all_over_the_country_over_migrant_child_separation .html#!

Link repair:

Pelosi: "I Don't Even Know Why There Aren't Uprisings All Over The Country" Over Migrant Child Separation

[[That link was corrupted by the DetroitYES! Yankee Underscore Tango bug.)

[Zacha341]

OH! Is that contagious? ----

Thanks!

[Zacha341]

and then there's this guy....

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...lso-ncna883676

Skip Sessions interpretation. As the article cites we see others have referenced the Bible towards championing freedom. Read Romans 13 for yourself I say.

[Maof]

Of course, there's always Sarah Huckabee Sanders as well..."it is very biblical to enforce the law". . Playing the blame game just like her boss.


https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...ration-w521546

[Richard]

Of course nobody sheds a tear over the border patrol agent that got killed last week by one of those special immigrants.

Of course he was a fellow American whose life means nothing compared to an illegal immigrant.

Of course the parents of the children did not take into account the ramifications of their illegal act and the impact on,but then again why should they when there is plenty of support for not taking responsibility for your actions and place the blame on others.

Throw your child in front of the speeding train and blame the conductor for not stopping fast enough.

Lol talk about playing the blame game,you guys spend every waking moment placing the blame on everybody else.

I'll bet if your boiling water and burn it,that it would be somehow,some way the current presidents fault.

It is entertaining though.Kinda like a circus of minions running around in circles crying woe is me.

[Zacha341]

In part this pandering to illegals is a numbers game. The far right would like their votes too, but it goes against their narrative.

On the other hand the far left knows that if they reward the illegals with unquestioned entry they'll have a loyal voting block.

This is about political leverage.

[Richard]

Shure but are the illegals smart enough to see the end result of the rest of the lib dem voting block.

They do seem to like to keep their voting block poor and sleeping in the street.

[Maof]

Of course nobody sheds a tear over the border patrol agent that got killed last week by one of those special immigrants.

Of course he was a fellow American whose life means nothing compared to an illegal immigrant.

Of course the parents of the children did not take into account the ramifications of their illegal act and the impact on,but then again why should they when there is plenty of support for not taking responsibility for your actions and place the blame on others.

Throw your child in front of the speeding train and blame the conductor for not stopping fast enough.

Lol talk about playing the blame game,you guys spend every waking moment placing the blame on everybody else.

I'll bet if your boiling water and burn it,that it would be somehow,some way the current presidents fault.

It is entertaining though.Kinda like a circus of minions running around in circles crying woe is me.

Per usual, your spinning the discussion and coming up with some off the wall comparisons. And yes, they are ALWAYS blaming the other party along with past administrations from both sides, especially, Obama. Trump and/or most of his "party" can't come up with anything else to explain what they do and say and consistently blaming others is juvenile at best.

And quoting biblical passages to justify what is going on, is inappropriate and should not be a part of any administration.

[oladub]

This fits the no borders crowd's narrative but is inaccurate. My understanding is that the "children", often older teens - a semantic distortion, are taken from parents arrested for violating immigration laws. The editorial cartoonist would be more accurate if he had depicted the parents in custody instead of abandoning their child. What kind of criminals would invade the United States knowing that their children would be separated from them if they are arrested? It's like Palestinians who bring their children into border conflict situations where there is a good chance of violence occurring . We should feel sorry for the children in either case in part for having parents so ready to sacrifice their children. My solution would be to immediately reunite those parents and children while repatriating them.

[Richard]

Per usual, your spinning the discussion and coming up with some off the wall comparisons. And yes, they are ALWAYS blaming the other party along with past administrations from both sides, especially, Obama. Trump and/or most of his "party" can't come up with anything else to explain what they do and say and consistently blaming others is juvenile at best.

And quoting biblical passages to justify what is going on, is inappropriate and should not be a part of any administration.

How is it off the wall?

The southern border states have been begging for help while the rest of the country told them to piss off,Obamas answer was to turn a blind eye.

The currant administration has not created any new policy or laws,they are enforcing the laws on the books.

Anybody that creates an illegal act in the United States with their children present the children are removed and not placed into custody with the parents.

Correct?

If any US citizen endangers the life of their child they are arrested and seperated and the children are placed in foster care.

Correct?

Put it out on social media that somebody put their child in danger and everybody is out for blood.

So the message is illegals have more rights and compassion then American citizens.

So the other option is to place the children in the federal facility so they can see that there are consequences for illegal actions because apparently that is something that the parents will not teach them and if they are allowed in they already know it is okay to break the law in America,it is also apparent that many Americans have taught their children that it is okay to break the law because they seem to have little respect for it and actually encourage it and justify it.

How come Nobody said a thing when president bush was doing the exact same thing,so now you have a bunch of people useing children as a tool to show more anger at the currant administration.

Notice how nobody is privately offering to fund the children and take temporary custody,no solutions, just use it to benefit a cause as long as it does not cost them out of their pocket or disrupt their families.

Half of the country is encouraging illegal immigration then bitching when consequences are applied,they are just as culpable.

How come you do not show the same empathy and outrage for the inner city children that do not have a chance,they do not matter or count?

[Zacha341]

Hmmm, these factors do seem to emerge withstanding the politics.

Anybody that creates an illegal act in the United States with their children present the children are removed and not placed into custody with the parents.

Correct?

If any US citizen endangers the life of their child they are arrested and seperated and the children are placed in foster care.

Correct?

Put it out on social media that somebody put their child in danger and everybody is out for blood.

So the message is illegals have more rights and compassion then American citizens.

[Zacha341]

The voting block [[assumption of the women's vote percentage) thing blew up for Hillary and the black vote is changing!

Many black people I talk to would quickly saw off their right arm before aligning with Trump. However, do know we are not happy about having our borders wide open and the coddling to illegals.

This-bending-over-backwards for illegals 'tolerance' thing is mostly 'Get Trump!' partisan based - at any cost.

We're not Republicans of Foxers, but it's clear that illegals only further erode economic opportunities for blacks. Yet the left claims they're soooo concerned with 'people of color'. I guess we're not the precise 'right color' now.

Shure but are the illegals smart enough to see the end result of the rest of the lib dem voting block.

They do seem to like to keep their voting block poor and sleeping in the street.

[Richard]

The thing is there is really little that The current or any president can do,it is up to congress,the previous president kicked the can down the road with the power of the pen giving many a false sense of hope knowing full well policy changes like the wind.

Anybody who has ever dealt with the immigration system knows it has been broken for a long time and pretty much is based on the ability to pay,even legally it takes many years and thousands of dollars to complete.

The current situation is just a snap shot of a bigger problem that needs to be addressed,The current president is pushing to come to the table now because with the midterms coming up it will be extended into the next year.

So instead of looking for reasons for hate maybe it is better to channel the same energy into pushing both sides to get it done now.

We can stand up and protest and yell Trumps an ass all day long but it does not solve anything if people were really serious about helping those children then they would look for results instead of discourse.

The democrats want point blank free borders and no country in the world has that,so why continue to effect lives in a negative way while knowing full well you are taking a stance that will never go no where and then useing that impasse as a tool in order to spread discontent towards a president that can really do little about it.

I say democrats but there seems to be a split in the democrat party and a big difference between the liberal democrats and the conservative democrats.

I think the liberal democrats need to come out from behind the skirts of the conservative democrats and stand on their own two feet with their own party.

I think sometimes it is not fair to lump all democrats together there is a lot of them that can think fairly and reasonably and can come up with a solution that appeases both side and is fair for both sides.

[Zacha341]

Yes, I agree all democrats are not the same. Nope. Further the liberal democrats need to come out from behind the skirts of the FAR LEFT, which IMO is as odious as the far right.

Perhaps more in their pretense to be for 'people', ergo their form of fascism masked as tolerance and equal rights.

On the other hand, the eh' humanitarian expectation is not much anticipated of the FAR RIGHT. Got that.

And does any country benefit from fully open borders? Check Canada, Mexico and Japan for example. Apologetically NOT open.

But I guess Ame-rika is so odious it should be the first to try it.

[Richard]

The voting block thing blew up for Hillary and the black vote is changing!

Many black people I talk to would quickly saw off their right arm before aligning with Trump. However, do know we are not happy about having our borders wide open and the coddling to illegals.

This-bending-over-backwards for illegals 'tolerance' thing is mostly 'Get Trump!' partisan based - at any cost.

We're not Republicans of Foxers, but it's clear that illegals only further erode economic opportunities for blacks. Yet the left claims they're soooo concerned with 'people of color'. I guess we're not the precise 'right color' now.

I can really only speak from personal experiences and interactions with the black community and being in a different city,with our restruants being Caribbean style with 85% African American customer base.

Military African Americans were pro Trump,I have seen and assisted in a hugh increase new African American start ups,they did not have a ton of money but they attribute the confidence in taking the risk with the current administration wheather they agree with him or not.

A lot of lower income do not necessarily agree with the current administration but after many years of stagnation are willing to see how it goes.

But at any rate it irks me that all of this wasted energy on hate that could be channeled in positive results,we have Somebody in the White House finally that is ready to break barriers and do what is best for the country.

If that same energy of hatred was channeled into skills training and other training programs and actually give people a chance,I do not believe we need to import the best and brightest,we have them here already and need to give them a chance instead of keeping everybody smashed down like a bug for stupid political games.

Nobody has to like the guy they just need to like their fellow citizens more then their personal hatred and do the right thing for them.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Yeah I can see many blacks in the military being pro-Trump. Good point to mention. Yes, the division, energy wasting and hate is not helping. The politricks are so useful.

[Zacha341]

My question further is what was happening during the Obama administration? Were the children kept with the immigration policy offending parents then?

I get that the numbers are up, but I'm just wandering if the policy has changed that much more now that Trump is president.

My solution would be to immediately reunite those parents and children while repatriating them.

[Richard]

The difference is the Obama administration took the stance of not enforcing the laws or Kinda like looked the other way,it was not a solution but did allow for less of the limelight.

The currant president did not make any new laws,which he does not have the power to do but he does have the power to enforce the currant laws on the books.

It is not really policy persay it is the general stance an administration takes,Obamas was stand down,Trumps is enforce the laws.

Which is what he is doing,it should really be no surprise,like with the whole trade thing he did say what he was going to do 2 years ago,so there should be no surprise.

Everybody has had two years to come to the table and resolve this,but yet here we are.

With both trade and immigration then President Bush did the same exact thing but stopped because the whole war thing takes a lot of energy.

Nobody said anything or had a problem with it at that time but it was also not front stage center.

Thr current president seems to like to put things front and center loudly to draw attention to it and get it resolved with a sense of urgency.

The business side says hey do what it takes to get it handled now and it gets done now because the boss said so,the political side says we need to do this but we need to milk it for all it is worth and look great while doing it without actually doing anything.

The whole immigration thing is interwoven like a knitted afgan,if you pull on one thread it disrupts and changes the structure,as we found out with DACA it's hard to place a band aid here and there,there needs to be a complete overhaul of the system.

[bust]

My question further is what was happening during the Obama administration? Were the children kept with the immigration policy offending parents then?

I get that the numbers are up, but I'm just wandering if the policy has changed that much more now that Trump is president.

Zacha, this is a new policy, unprecedented in American history until Trump.

An article in the New York Times yesterday described how Trump's policy came about. I'll quote the beginning in case you can't get past the paywall. I encourage you to read the rest if you can...

How Trump Came to Enforce a Practice of Separating Migrant Families
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/16/u...ion-trump.html

"WASHINGTON — Almost immediately after President Trump took office, his administration began weighing what for years had been regarded as the nuclear option in the effort to discourage immigrants from unlawfully entering the United States.

Children would be separated from their parents if the families had been apprehended entering the country illegally, John F. Kelly, then the homeland security secretary, said in March 2017, “in order to deter more movement along this terribly dangerous network.”

For more than a decade, even as illegal immigration levels fell overall, seasonal spikes in unauthorized border crossings had bedeviled American presidents in both political parties, prompting them to cast about for increasingly aggressive ways to discourage migrants from making the trek.

Yet for George W. Bush and Barack Obama, the idea of crying children torn from their parents’ arms was simply too inhumane — and too politically perilous — to embrace as policy, and Mr. Trump, though he had made an immigration crackdown one of the central issues of his campaign, succumbed to the same reality, publicly dropping the idea after Mr. Kelly’s comments touched off a swift backlash.

But advocates inside the administration, most prominently Stephen Miller, Mr. Trump’s senior policy adviser, never gave up on the idea. Last month, facing a sharp uptick in illegal border crossings, Mr. Trump ordered a new effort to criminally prosecute anyone who crossed the border unlawfully — with few exceptions for parents traveling with their minor children."

PS. I'm not a Democrat -- I don't uncritically identify with any party -- but I much more closely align with the Democrats' policies than those of the Republicans, especially lately. No one asked, but here's what I think.

I hear you that we should not simply open our borders to everyone. Of course we should not. Yet despite how the right wants to paint Democrats, I can't think of a single one who wants that. Our first responsibility is with our fellow Americans, and about this we are all on the same page.

I think we need reasonable immigration policies that benefit Americans. After all receiving new immigrants does benefit Americans, unless it is managed incorrectly.

I think we need to strongly discourage illegal immigration. And I think we must be reasonable, ethical, and humane how we handle that. Separating children from their parents at the border is a gross violation of those principles. It is a gross violation of American principles in general. I think deporting people who have built their lives here after they were brought here as children is too.

It is crucial for discouraging illegal immigration to hold employers who hire illegal immigrants accountable for breaking the law. These law-breaking employers are after all only a tiny percentage of Americans, and they are by far the primary beneficiaries of illegal immigration, aside from the illegal immigrants themselves. They do this to keep wages artificially low and working conditions illegally poor. And as you suggested, this comes at the expense of Americans who would otherwise benefit from the job.

I don't buy the argument that employers can't find Americans willing to provide that labor. Because hiring illegal immigrants willing to accept less also comes at the expense of the wages and working conditions Americans could otherwise find. And many of those jobs that today are so often filled by illegal immigrants are some of the very same jobs I worked when I was young.

I think it is our duty as a principled nation to continue to welcome asylum seekers fleeing legitimate threats. It is furthermore our duty as a self-interested nation to reasonably ensure that means of entry is not abused.

And I think it is appropriate to include perceived merit / benefit to our nation as an input into the formula used to determine who is eligible to immigrate to the United States legally. As others have mentioned, all [[or almost all -- I'm not sure) other countries with functional governments do that.

Meanwhile, I am acutely aware how difficult it is today to immigrate to this country legally.

Both the way we handle illegal immigration and legal immigration need reform.

And hell no, I don't trust the Trump administration to do that.

[coracle]

“Both the way we handle illegal immigration and legal immigration definitely need reform”.
ABSOLUTELY, Build a f......g BIG WALL. DEPORT ALL illegals including DACA. Stamp out the lottery and chain immigration AND ONLY ACCEPT THOSE THAT WE WANT. [[Stop the invasion of America from shithole countries).

There are “BILLIONS” standing in line just waiting for the chance to sign on for our welfare and America is “full” of stupid liberals that can’t say “NO”.

[Zacha341]

Thank you for your detailed response. I felt there was something MORE going on in this case, even understanding and agreeing that we cannot have open borders. Thanks for that article detailing for example the increasing 'nuclear' strategies.

Yes, I don't think the broad-brushing of democrats or liberals is useful, it more crucial to understanding the the extremes of both party and what their agendas are. And the repudiation of all reason both put forth [[the Far Left and Far Right). This is not Ellis Island time, where we needed the populations; sustainablility must be considered, and that factor is being distracted by the bright colors or politics. If we are too worn out from their games to understand the underlying agenda's we remain head turners in this sick tennis match -- look over there, look over here.

SO per article cited there are some exceptions for minors from this recent enforcement of the laws applied? So this explains why Trump is hated ever more. Yet we need immigration reform. Yet, this admin is making that harder to consider.

So instead you've got a world view heading just the opposite of no border enforcement what so ever.

Children involved are the perfect pawn for such.

I almost want to say frig-it and let everyone in, AND then we'll see HOW that works out. That will showcase once and for all why we should have had some reasonable immigration policy.

This side of it will continue to render hypotheticals everyone can argue about...........

...I think it is our duty as a principled nation to continue to welcome asylum seekers fleeing legitimate threats. It is furthermore our duty as a self-interested nation to reasonably ensure that means of entry is not abused.

And I think it is appropriate to include perceived merit / benefit to our nation as an input into the formula used to determine who is eligible to immigrate to the United States legally. As others have mentioned, all [[or almost all -- I'm not sure) other countries with functional governments do that.

Meanwhile, I am acutely aware how difficult it is today to immigrate to this country legally.

Both the way we handle illegal immigration and legal immigration need reform.

And hell no, I don't trust the Trump administration to do that.

[Zacha341]

Thank you for your detailed response. I hear that it's an enforcement but as it involves children IT IS the third-rail of politics and tricks. Further, Trump and his party are more codified as the embodiment of evil.

Children taken from families? Many are not going to do the fine print reading on that -- at blurred vision it's odious, first glance. Thus on the other extreme, more are emboldened to believe that immigration laws are useless. Great!

In the mean time our country is weakening under the very narrative of all of this. Some want to come here to escape the very madness, and totalitarianism we are becoming. Yep, it won't be much difference or opportunity if this angst and mess continues.

... The currant president did not make any new laws,which he does not have the power to do but he does have the power to enforce the currant laws on the books.

It is not really policy persay it is the general stance an administration takes,Obamas was stand down,Trumps is enforce the laws.

Which is what he is doing,it should really be no surprise,like with the whole trade thing he did say what he was going to do 2 years ago,so there should be no surprise.

[ABetterDetroit]

It is crucial for discouraging illegal immigration to hold employers who hire illegal immigrants accountable for breaking the law. These law-breaking employers are after all only a tiny percentage of Americans, and they are by far the primary beneficiaries of illegal immigration, aside from the illegal immigrants themselves. They do this to keep wages artificially low and working conditions illegally poor. And as you suggested, this comes at the expense of Americans who would otherwise benefit from the job.

“Crucial” is a understatement here.

IF one is inclined to STOP illegal immigration the above is the only way it can be done. A 25 Billion dollar wall is pointless if nothing is changed about the employers who dodge the laws.

The simple truth that Trump ignores this obvious fact on his supposedly corner stone issue implies that he and his party do not actually give a shit about illegal immigrants. Complaining about illegals was nothing more than building a base of power on fear and getting a juicy government contract thrown their way while they where at it.

$250 fine first offense? 2K for a second? Yet we need a 25 Billion dollar wall to stop this problem? Seriously???

What a absolute joke. It proves that a fool is in fact born every minute and the people in power will profit from others stupidity in a “Huge” way.

This policy works out even better for the wealthy when the real corner stone of their political platform is targeted at the middle class in that “if you admire the wealthy so much start paying more of the bills because we want the largest tax cuts!”

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-libra...mmigrants.html

[rb336]

Technically speaking, the VAST majority of people who are being jailed and having their kids stolen from them ARE NOT BREAKING ANY LAWS. They come to the border, go to the INS office, and ask for asylum. there is NO law against that. These are not the people sneaking over the border