Welcome To Trump World

[Richard]

Always? World War 2 ring a bell?

Perfect example of working together in order to meet an greater objective while knowing full well that you still would not be friends in the end.

[Bong-Man]

It is a blatant mistake,forget about whether Russia hacked for a second and think for a moment and for future reference,if you were another country and wanted to do a hack would it be in your best interest to leave a crumb in the footprint in order to divert attention away from you?

You would leave a crumb to divert attention ? I'd explain the plot of Hanzel & Gretyl to you, but like President Trump, you'd probably get lost along the way. That's for future reference by the way.

[Richard]

You would leave a crumb to divert attention ? I'd explain the plot of Hanzel & Gretyl to you, but like President Trump, you'd probably get lost along the way. That's for future reference by the way.

I guess it is possible for someone that eats,sleeps and lives their life depending on not being discovered would do something like that.

Just like I would walk out of the house naked because I forgot to put my clothes on,possible,but highly unlikely.

[canuck]

Let's make America grate again. Beware the power of Montenegro.

[Bong-Man]

Trump stepped over a line by boldly admitting that the U.S is not innocent. Anyone want to disagree with that? He is getting hammered for it. Many on the right and left are concerned about losing face in admitting culpability.

Interesting analysis. I'm not going to disagree with you...I'd just like to point out that you're calling President Trump bold for admitting America isn't innocent. President Obama pretty much said the same, and it was labeled, "The Apology Tour". Funny how that works. There is one major difference though...President Obama was admitting that to our allies, not our enemies.

Director Coats isn't being shy about the absurdity of President Trump's statements and actions. If you're an American, and you think it's acceptable for President Trump to have yet another closed-door meeting with Putin after what we just experienced, you've lost it. You can watch and listen to all the alternative news you'd like, buy into any current or past conspiracies, or disbelieve the integrity of any U.S. Gov't agency, but when every major news network, Republicans, Democrats, anyone who ever held the offices in question disagrees with President Trump's methods and approach for the last week, we've got a problem. President Trump wasn't elected by the base he panders to. He was elected by swing voters. They watched...they heard....they know what they saw, and they won't forget.

As a moderate democrat, I hope he's stupid enough to have another meeting with the same parameters before the mid-terms. As an American, I cringe.

[oladub]

Bong-man, if you are a moderate Democrat, moderate Democrats sound a bit like Joe McCarthy. Either presidents can and/or should negotiate or not. It has to be done in private. As the video Pam posted on another thread pointed out, the details of any agreement are typically hammered out in a week or three after such negotiations. The Senate has to concur with a 2/3 majority to make such agreements treaties. There is your chance to kill peace if not acceptable. Obama, since you brought him up, also negotiated agreements in private, for instance, on Iran and the environment. Since the Senate didn't concur, they were never treaties, so Trump used executive orders to override them.

I called President Trump bold and a statesman for taking on neocons; now the neocon and Democratic establishment. He had to know their would be a price to pay for taking on the establishment's narrative. I'm disappointed that he is backing off in response to the double barrel blast from neocon Republicans and Democrats and their corporatist puppet press blast against his peace effort*. If I "am an American", as you put it, you better believe that I support efforts in the direction of peace and believe now is the time to speak out against the new McCarthyism endangering the world. The alternative is too gristle. The U.S. and Russia are beginning kill each other in Syria, nuclear treaties are expiring and have to be updated to reflect new technology, and it seems Putin and Trump agreed to keep Iranian forces from further encroaching on the Israeli border. That's dangerous stuff that has to be addressed. Kudos to Trump for sitting in rooms with Kim and Putin.

*If you hear the truth you've spoken
twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools
-Rudyard Kipling

[Bong-Man]

Bong-man, if you are a moderate Democrat, moderate Democrats sound like Joe McCarthy. Either presidents can and/or should negotiate or not. It has to be done in private. As

the video Pam posted on another thread pointed out

, the details of any agreement are typically hammered out in a week or three after such negotiations. The Senate has to concur with a 2/3 majority to make such agreements treaties. There is your chance to kill peace if not acceptable. Obama, since you brought him up, also negotiated agreements in private, for instance, on Iran and the environment. Since the Senate didn't concur, they were never treaties, so Trump used executive orders to override them.

I understand the procedure, and I'm all for communicating and negotiating. It wasn't that he had a meeting with Putin. That's his job. It's how he presented himself and our country before, during, and after the meeting. That includes the treatment of our long-time allies, his response to the Bi-partisan Russian Interference report, and any possible private discussions with Putin that may be related. If he threw his own intelligence team and his own appointee under the bus in public, what was said and agreed to in private ? It's not a conspiracy that people on both sides of the aisle now wonder...it's a natural and logical conclusion based on his own actions of the past week. 'The Political Apprentice' has no one but himself and his very large and insecure ego to blame.

Who are these naïve people who think the cold war ended ? It didn't end, it just took a new form. MAD still exists in all its' glory. Better delivery systems with more power and accuracy are in place, and we're about to raise the stakes to the military in space.

Always enjoy your posts and views Oladub….even when I wasn't participating in discussions.

[Richard]

I guess it depends on how one looks at things weather his private meeting was throwing people under the bus or a preference to look one in the eye and find out exactly where they are headed,where they stand and what their intentions are.

We know it all operates way above our pay grade and we are only told what they want to tell us,private meeting or not,odds are we would have never known what was discussed anyways.

We can speculate,my speculation would be and based on what is happening in Europe as a whole.

NATO,formed after WW2 in order to prevent Russian aggression in Europe.

As we have seen,Russia has no problem being aggressive and NATO has done little to stop it.

At this point what is the mission of NATO?

Then the whole issue of the current president pissing off our allies.

Which brings up the EU.

The EU wants open borders or no borders in a push to make every country equal,one common currency,and one international police force that has the power to enter countries at will and make policies.

Which would be the role of NATO,as a European police force.

Enter the UK and Brexit,the voters decided that they do not want to be a part of a bigger picture that dissolves their countries ability to make decisions that effect their sovereignty.

In a unified Europe every country would donate into a pot and that pot would be used to prop up other countries that do not have the economy to support themselves,or those workers would be free to travel to another country to reside and work.

Problem is countries like the UK have national healthcare and benefits that no other countries have,so most would prefer to mass migrate to a place where benefits are easily obtained.

The UK cannot cover those costs,51% of the national health budget is tied up in litigation and they are having serious issues funding it.

So why did the President appear to diss Mrs May in the UK?

The voters decided on Brexit and Brexit now and not some long protracted ordeal,she was starting to backtrack and extending the exit,notice her cabinet was starting to resign,she was losing support of Brexit and people were getting mad,did he give her a wake up call or diss her?

His only job at that time was to assure the voters in the UK that we would still have their back in trade and support so they would not be a stand alone country up against the EU should it come down to it.

He did that.

Germany makes a pipeline deal with Russia that involves 75% of their energy needs,it may not seem like a big deal until you look at what is happening now with riots in Iraq and Iran when one country shuts off the power flow and it is 90 degrees out.

If your country depends on another for 75% percent of your power needs you are basically at their whim if they want to create instability within.

Who are the powers in Europe,England,Germany,Russia.

Russia controls Germany what is left?

That kinda puts the UK in a worrisome position.

There is a lot more going on but when one looks at the big picture of what is really going on,is he really pissing people off and why would he do it?

Or is he backing people up against the wall and finding out who exactly is in our corner,the only two that we can be sure of right now is Poland,and the UK if the rest are not then why are we wasting military budget that could be used elsewhere,and when the chips are down they end up saying thanks but we decided to go another way.

We are making sacrifices in this country for their stability and security,personally,I do not care if our president pisses them off,it is their responsibility to prove to us where their loyalties lay.

The easy answer is he is an ass,but do people really think he is that bored?

The second part is,he was and is an international business and land owner is it really in his and more importantly the other international financiers best interest to create a unstable situation or is it better to have a more stable worldwide economy.

[oladub]

Who are these naïve people who think the cold war ended ? It didn't end, it just took a new form. MAD still exists in all its' glory. Better delivery systems with more power and accuracy are in place, and we're about to raise the stakes to the military in space.

Always enjoy your posts and views Oladub….even when I wasn't participating in discussions.

Thank you. Great progress was made in ending the cold war when the Soviet Union collapsed. Some of that progress has been reversed. Some reports have it that the U.S. killed 200 Russian contractors, not regular army soldiers, in Syria. That's getting into high risk reprisal territory. Putin, for his part, has been buzzing NATO aircraft. All of this has to be reigned in. Negotiating with Putin is a start. If the Senate doesn't like what comes out of that meeting, that is that, no treaty, and we will have to deal with consequences of cold war escalation. Trump should have just said, "We talked about the grandkids" because that's the audience of their talks. Our present crossroad offers distinct alternatives. I just walked into McDonalds and the TV is showing someone blasting Trump for assuming some measure of U.S. responsibility for the cold war. I detest the ongoing fanning of the flames of war by Republican neocons and their Democratic allies perhaps in it for political advantage. Democrats, meanwhile are registering illegal aliens to vote in San Francisco while decrying foreign influence in elections. Crazy!Rhetorically- How many stupid wars and near wars do we have to have? How many of our young people and how much of our national wealth do we have to sacrifice on the establishment's alter? If Democrats have a better plan to pursue peace, now is the time to lay it out.

[Richard]

^ that blows my mind where they are allowing illegals to vote in the school board elections,most of them can not even care enough to speak the common language of English,let alone know how our system works well enough to regulate it.

[bust]

Veritable radio silence here from the usual culprits on the travesty which was the Putin-Trump summit.

Go on, defend it. I dare you.

[bust]

Pam, the Soviets fought Hitler because Hitler invaded them.
Never during that war or any other were they our friends.
Here's a history about what happened next that is easy to understand:
https://www.ducksters.com/history/cold_war/summary.php

[bust]

How does Mueller know 12 Russians hacked the DNC servers,when the servers were never turned over to the FBI for examination?

This trope is a ridiculous diversion from the facts that matter.
Too bad technology is difficult to understand. It makes many more susceptible to the tomfoolery besides the usual tomfooled [[like you know, you).
Here's as simple an explanation as I could find in the time I was willing to devote to the effort:

Trump's Stupid ‘Where Is the DNC Server?’ Conspiracy Theory, Explained
Trump refuses to believe all the evidence that Russia hacked the DNC, because he understands nothing about how digital forensics works.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...hack-explained

Don't even try to get away with the fake news argument, at least not from the right-wing perspective.
Vice was founded by a prominent leader of the far right. He left but his boys still run the show.

[bust]

Richard, sometimes you ring true as an intellectually misguided Tampa strip club entrepreneur with four thumbs, a smart phone, and a DY habit. Sometimes as an imposter social media agent provocateur.

You're certainly not a bot. I don't think artificial intelligence has yet advanced to a state where it can be so plausibly wacky. But what a trove of AI bot training material your posts provide!

[Richard]

Richard, sometimes you ring true as an intellectually misguided Tampa strip club entrepreneur with four thumbs, a smart phone, and a DY habit. Sometimes as an imposter social media agent provocateur.

You're certainly not a bot. I don't think artificial intelligence has yet advanced to a state where it can be so plausibly wacky. But what a trove of AI bot training material your posts provide!

Remember your last temper tantrum got posts deleted?

But that is part of the sickness,when you have no substance you resort to personal attacks.

It is Monday,got any proof of collusion yet? It is only $25 million later.

You need some sleep so I will tell you a little bedtime story.

In 2014 a group of corrupt police officers pulled over a school bus in Mexico,they then turned 17 children over to the cartel to be used for leverage in collecting ransom.

7 of those children were shot because the parents could not come up with the ransom.

The weapons used were manufactured by Heckler&Koch of Germany,the only way they received those weapons was by export through the Government of Germany,who is number 4 on the list of suppliers of conflict weapons.

You can say anybody has excess to those weapons but the thing is that they were produced only for military or special ops use so they are very rare.

You live in a world of manipulation and believe everybody is our friend when every country is out for themselves when it comes to making a buck,there is not a country in this world that does not do things underhanded no matter what you think.

You keep believing Russia is the boggy man,because that is what they told you,what makes you think any other country is high and mighty?

You want to talk about hacking,what about China? They have been hacking corporations and costing billions in this country for a long time but nobody has a problem with that,they actually support them by buying their junk.

So while they are throwing American corporations under the bus they are financing the very thing they claim to oppose.

But that would be your preference.

No point in even discussing the meeting between your president and Putin,the press there only wanted to hear one thing and showed how little their world actually is.

You seem to not have a problem being led about by a nose ring,which is your prerogative,but to try to stifle others speech by using sad attempts of personal discredit or name calling puts you right in there with Venezuela,China,Cuba and Russia,who knows,maybe that is your agenda and where you are comfortable at.

[TKshreve]

This trope is a ridiculous diversion from the facts that matter.
Too bad technology is difficult to understand. It makes many more susceptible to the tomfoolery besides the usual tomfooled [[like you know, you).
Here's as simple an explanation as I could find in the time I was willing to devote to the effort:

Trump's Stupid ‘Where Is the DNC Server?’ Conspiracy Theory, Explained
Trump refuses to believe all the evidence that Russia hacked the DNC, because he understands nothing about how digital forensics works.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...hack-explained

Don't even try to get away with the fake news argument, at least not from the right-wing perspective.
Vice was founded by a prominent leader of the far right. He left but his boys still run the show.

Could you make it even simpler, while doing three times the research for me?

I think you should take a step back and look at all the work you're doing to simply justify what is already fact to most of the people here. Some choose to remain willfully ignorant to the conventional wisdom of the matter at hand. It is common knowledge that Russia interefered in our electoral process. While our President needs multiple public statements and a speak-and-spell in order to get his view on the matter expressed, just about everyone else is on board with the idea that Russia pushed a state-led campaign to meddle in our elections. It is the extent to which this was done, and more so, what American entities were complicit in this aggression, that we are eager to learn. Mueller already knows though. Count those chickens before they hatch.

When you find yourself doing cartwheels, lunges and hand springs in an effort to convince those here that some facts actually happened, I would say that your time could be better put to use.

On another note: how about the latest Twitter threats from Trump to Iran now. Talk about stoking the fire, huh? He just can't keep his fat, little fingers off that phone of his long enough to let the dust settle. At least we're seeing continue pressure from Mueller in the form of indictments, Cohen cooperation and now Trump's former campaign chairman is about to face the music in court. Pass the popcorn - things are heating up!!!

[Zacha341]

The bottom line is that both parties meddle in swaying and influencing elections - local and national. Nothing new here, but how far does that reach to what happens at the polls is what concerns me the most.

The dems need not act like prissy clean in this, no less the repubs.

[TKshreve]

The bottom line is that both parties meddle in swaying and influencing elections - local and national. Nothing new here, but how far does that reach to what happens at the polls is what concerns me the most.

The dems need not act like prissy clean in this, no less the repubs.

See, but you're talking about OUR political parties influencing elections. While that is a concern in and of itself, the topic is Russia influencing our elections. It is a matter of national security. Are you simply ok with this? Is it news? Is it news to you? Or is it fake news to you?

[bust]

Richard, tantrums don't happen with a smile. ;~b

[Jimaz]

Robert Reich: We're Living a Constitutional Crisis

[Zacha341]

Point well taken [[the Russia aspect that is).... And no, I am not ok with it. I wasn't when the former presidents did it.

See, but you're talking about OUR political parties influencing elections. While that is a concern in and of itself, the topic is Russia influencing our elections. It is a matter of national security. Are you simply ok with this? Is it news? Is it news to you? Or is it fake news to you?

[TKshreve]

Point well taken [[the Russia aspect that is).... And no, I am not ok with it. I wasn't when the former presidents did it.

Who and what are you referring to? I don't remember a former president meddling with our own elections. Just trying to follow your point here.

[Richard]

Who and what are you referring to? I don't remember a former president meddling with our own elections. Just trying to follow your point here.

Of course you will not remember because it fits the profile.

You can peel the orange yourself,FBI starts an investigation and receives permission to spy on US citizens,based on fake material.

The meddling was started on the previous administrations watch but Rice told investigators to stand down.Why?

They say that the digital evidence points to Russian hacking of the DNC,but yet it points to a thumb drive that was delivered to Wikileaks after was internaly copied from the DNC.

Facebook said disruption in fake posts targeted no particular party,it was already explained before that the majority was tracked down to one guy doing it to make click bank.

You do need to get the popcorn out because now it is going down to traitors within the previous administration who will now be outed.

Your radical left with your heads buried in the sand is destroying the Democratic Party,which is the intent because you have to latch onto somebody's skirts because you know your headed off of the cliff.

You are turning the blue wave into a bad faucet washer drip,all of this has little to do with Trump,your first mistake is in thinking the sensible democrats are that gullible.

Trump was a well known democrat,he ran under the Republican Party because that is where they wanted him,he is not a republican hense the drain the swamp.

There are many Americans that are more traitorous then the currant president can muster in his little finger,You guys are Russia's best friend and are being manipulated by them.

They are pretty good at it apparently because you are already at that stage of convincing yourselves of something that does not exist.

Monday is almost over with,have you at least come up with a tiny bit of evidence about the collusion happening within your own heads?

Yes or no?

[Richard]

If you guys get really bored,do a search on the previous administrations top officials and where they are working now.

They are all working for defense contractors and the same financial institutions that they bailed out,I guess they do not like to rock the boat.

X president Obama was paid 400,000 for a speach in front of Wall Street.

Interesting how one can write anti Trump opinion articles about a little girl at the border while also being a paid advocate for privatization of border patrol holding facilities and jails.That is taking homeland security to the next level.

[coracle]

Just watched the America/EU trade talk announcements at the White House. Like Trump promised me, I’m getting tired of winning. Had to switch channels to CNN because feelings of such exultantly cannot be good for one’s long term health. We need to watch assholes for “balance”.

Only six years before we have to return to the the misery of “obama years”.