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  1. #3701

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    Quote Originally Posted by oladub View Post
    As you pointed out, the impeachment process is constitutional and can be conducted for any reason including not having sex with staffers. Democrats proved they could also try to litigate a different result in a presidential election by trying to recount votes in corrupt Broward County a number of times. Instead of getting out the big magnifying glasses to examine chads, Democrats have spent the last three years trying to come up with some sort of impeachment scenario. Weren't there some here who told us an impeachment would be coming once the Robert Swan Mueller III's report was out? That didn't happen so now Trump is guilty about trying to ascertain if the Bidens had done something wrong. It could have been coincidence that Biden's son was chosen as the best person in the world to man the Burisma board after all. If Trump had uncovered corruption, that wouldn't have only been good for him. It would have been good for the country. By Democratic rules, however, Trump was just supposed to go along with the corruption and not look into it; just write checks.

    Those U.S. taxpayer checks to buoy the Ukranian government wouldn't of course been even necessary had the Obama administration not so badly bungled foreign policy in Ukraine by helping overthrow its elected government and inadvertently drawing Russia in. There was no constitutional basis for overthrowing Libya, Ukraine, and using ISIS to try to overthrow Assad either. If misusing cigars in the oral office and investigating corruption in Ukraine are worthy of impeachment proceedings, conducting unconstitutional wars and the millions of Russian dollars that went into the Clinton Family Foundation while Hillary was SOS were larger constitutional abridgments by orders of magnitude. Yet, Democrats hypocritically ignore that.

    While China has deployed 18,000 miles of high speed trains and is creating weapons the U.S. has no answer for, Democrats are busy tying up our Country for four years trying to unseat our elected President like he was the head of Libya, Syria, or Libya. How would the Founding Fathers have ever guessed that any Americans would do that?
    Is the Impeachment process, laid out in the United States Constitution, a "coup"? Yes or no? If yes, then did the Republicans attempt to undo the 1996 election by attempting a coup to remove Bill Clinton from office when they impeached him? Yes or no? If no, why the double standard?

    Look Cletus, if you don't like Impeachment, then get a 2/3rds vote in Congress and 3/4ths of states to ratify an amendment that removes that process from the U.S. Constitution. You can call it a "coup" all you like, it's in the Constitution and it's 100% LEGAL. Cry about it if it makes you feel better though, it certainly makes me feel better to see your butthurt tears on full display when reality doesn't go the way you want it to.

    P.S. Did you enjoy last night's election returns?

  2. #3702

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    Quote Originally Posted by aj3647 View Post
    Is the Impeachment process, laid out in the United States Constitution, a "coup"? Yes or no? If yes, then did the Republicans attempt to undo the 1996 election by attempting a coup to remove Bill Clinton from office when they impeached him? Yes or no? If no, why the double standard?

    Look Cletus, if you don't like Impeachment, then get a 2/3rds vote in Congress and 3/4ths of states to ratify an amendment that removes that process from the U.S. Constitution. You can call it a "coup" all you like, it's in the Constitution and it's 100% LEGAL. Cry about it if it makes you feel better though, it certainly makes me feel better to see your butthurt tears on full display when reality doesn't go the way you want it to.

    P.S. Did you enjoy last night's election returns?
    Reread the first sentence from my previous post to answer most of your first paragraph's questions. Spending three years doing almost nothing but trying to unseat the elected president however amounts to a coup however. I even mentioned double standards further on.

    But more importantly, we wouldn't being discussing Ukraine if the Obama administration hadn't helped overthrow the elected Ukraine government. I am amazed when anyone, including the press, ignores constitutional cancers and instead whines over something that could be interpreted as a pimple.

    No, I didn't like the results last night in Kentucky and Virginia for the same reason I don't like it when Peronists win in Argentina or Marxists win in Venezuela. Such results are ultimately paid for by the middle class. I hate to see the United States lose.

  3. #3703

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    Quote Originally Posted by aj3647 View Post
    Is the Impeachment process, laid out in the United States Constitution, a "coup"? Yes or no? If yes, then did the Republicans attempt to undo the 1996 election by attempting a coup to remove Bill Clinton from office when they impeached him? Yes or no? If no, why the double standard?

    Look Cletus, if you don't like Impeachment, then get a 2/3rds vote in Congress and 3/4ths of states to ratify an amendment that removes that process from the U.S. Constitution. You can call it a "coup" all you like, it's in the Constitution and it's 100% LEGAL. Cry about it if it makes you feel better though, it certainly makes me feel better to see your butthurt tears on full display when reality doesn't go the way you want it to.

    P.S. Did you enjoy last night's election returns?
    By the way, your 'whistleblower's' attorney, Mark Zaid, called the impeachment effort a "coup" almost two years ago.



    Calling someone "Cletus" must be something that smug entitled eletists do like when Hillary referred to working Americans as "a basket of deplorables".

  4. #3704

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    Quote Originally Posted by aj3647 View Post
    Who's doing that? Impeachment is a CONSTITUTIONAL process, 100% legal. Did you all forget that just 20 years ago, Republicans impeached Bill Clinton for lying about a blow job? Was THAT a coup too, or only when the Constitution gets applied to Republican Presidents?

    You all are a bunch of hypocrites. Everything the Democrats have done thus far is 100% legal and in full accordance with Constitutional procedures and the rules/policies governing the House of Representatives. It's not a coup, if you don't like the Impeachment process, take it up with the Founding Fathers who created it.
    Don't forget, their hero/idol/cult leader called the Emoluments clauses "fake." These Trump-supporting morons only understand the universe through the bullshit that spews through their orange master's orifice. If Trump says it is x, than it is certainly x, otherwise it's "deep state" and "fake news." They understand nothing about the nature of what is and isn't factual. Then some of them blather on in fairly incoherent rants that they back up not with facts but with some gibberish they see on Breitbart or some random video that never has actual factual information supporting it.

    For their enlightenment: a "fact" is something that can be verified via scientific means or through tracing back to original source material.
    Example:
    "Anthropomorphic climate change is a major threat." Backed up by literally THOUSANDS of scientific, peer-reviewed studies in about a dozen different fields of study. Every single arrow points to that.
    "Climate change is a hoax." Backed up by fossil fuel industry funded groups like the Heritage Foundation (who got their start by denying the dangers of tobacco) and by scientists who are funded by or work for fossil fuel companies. (Of course, it has been revealed that Exxon knew about the ramifications of climate change since the 70s. https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-40-years-ago/ )

    Of course, the Trumpy response is that 10,000 scientists all have some sort of secret agenda that they can't identify, clarify, or explain.

  5. #3705

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    Donald Trump has been ordered to pay $2 million as part of a settlement in a civil suit against his now-defunct "Trump Foundation" charity by the State of New York.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/07/polit...ork/index.html

    The suit was brought about after a shocking pattern of illegal behavior on the part of Trump's charity, including illegal coordination with his Presidential campaign and the gross misuse of charitable funds which included using charitable donations to payoff lawsuits involving Trump's businesses and to purchase luxury goods for the personal use of Trump and his family members. Among those personal items purchased with charitable donations were a six-foot painting of Donald Trump and a signed Tim Tebow football helmet.

    The Trump Foundation voluntarily dissolved in 2017 after it admitted to engaging in illegal "self-dealing" to the IRS.

    The money will be distributed to various non-profit organizations (AKA real charities).

    This brings to $27 million the amount of settlement money Trump has been ordered to personally pay out since being elected as President. In November 2016, he was ordered to pay $25 million in restitution to the victims of his scam "Trump University." No wonder this grifter keep steering taxpayer money to his own businesses.

    And to think, some of you actually admire this criminal.

  6. #3706

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    Quote Originally Posted by rb336 View Post
    Don't forget, their hero/idol/cult leader called the Emoluments clauses "fake." These Trump-supporting morons only understand the universe through the bullshit that spews through their orange master's orifice. If Trump says it is x, than it is certainly x, otherwise it's "deep state" and "fake news." They understand nothing about the nature of what is and isn't factual. Then some of them blather on in fairly incoherent rants that they back up not with facts but with some gibberish they see on Breitbart or some random video that never has actual factual information supporting it.

    For their enlightenment: a "fact" is something that can be verified via scientific means or through tracing back to original source material.
    Example:
    "Anthropomorphic climate change is a major threat." Backed up by literally THOUSANDS of scientific, peer-reviewed studies in about a dozen different fields of study. Every single arrow points to that.
    "Climate change is a hoax." Backed up by fossil fuel industry funded groups like the Heritage Foundation (who got their start by denying the dangers of tobacco) and by scientists who are funded by or work for fossil fuel companies. (Of course, it has been revealed that Exxon knew about the ramifications of climate change since the 70s. https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-40-years-ago/ )

    Of course, the Trumpy response is that 10,000 scientists all have some sort of secret agenda that they can't identify, clarify, or explain.

    Thats pretty good work there,anybody that does not agree with you is the problem.

    Ever find it strange that very few agree with you,maybe that is a sign.

    It is not about climate change,which has been happening for thousands of years,what the scientists disagree on is the impact humans have on it.

    Two things

    The climate experts said that Michigan will no longer have winters and you guys need to rebuild your houses in order to cope with the heat.

    Sense you will no longer be having winters maybe you should take up construction and profit from the rebuilding.

    Please come to Florida and convince the ocean front property owners that sea level will rise and they should sell for pennies on the dollar before it is to late.

    I will pay you commission for every ocean front property that you can secure at that bail out price.

    Outside of that read a little history on climate change through the years and how many times we have already run out of time and died.

    Every year for the last 20 years we were all supposed to be dead because of climate change,I do not need a scientific analysis to tell me I am not dead yet because of climate change.

    It actually has little to do with climate outside of creating opportunities,we had the Industrial Age , then was the technology revolution,now it is climate change what a better way to promote it other then get on board or die.

    You can help save the planet or practice what you preach buy simply throwing out anything that is made in China because you are supporting the death of the planet but consuming thier products.

    My guess is you will not,I was watching a program the other day about a couple that served as crew on a private yacht.

    She made it a point to show that in order to do her part of saving the planet she had a reusable water bottle but yet when they showed the shower,the guy had 1 bottle of shampoo on the rack,she had 7.

    Maybe if you,save the planet or we are all going to die in ten years,were not so hypocritical it would be easier to sell your snake oil.

    In the meantime try and at least be a little honest about what your narrative is,at least the new green deal spells it out about how it actually has nothing to do with saving the planet.
    Last edited by Richard; November-07-19 at 10:15 PM.

  7. #3707

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Thats pretty good work there,anybody that does not agree with you is the problem.
    Scientifically illiterate people, greed, and anti-fact fools from Trump (and Biden) down are the problem.

  8. #3708

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    It just occurred to me that I haven't seen any Annoying Orange videos for quite a while.

    Oh, no! What has His Orangeness done to Annoying Orange to avoid being upstaged and what have his thugs done with the body?



  9. #3709

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    Quote Originally Posted by rb336 View Post
    Scientifically illiterate people, greed, and anti-fact fools from Trump (and Biden) down are the problem.
    It really has nothing to do with you or me or Biden or Trump or how we look at facts,it is about opening up markets and giving a reason to force those markets open.

    Examples

    We used to do grocery shopping and everything was placed in paper bags,they were recyclable and if discarded they would break down in the environment causing no harm.

    The call was to save the planet and save the trees.

    So plastic was brought on to the market as a replacement for bags and bottles.

    The glass bottles used to have a deposit charge on them which encouraged recycling them and many a kid collected them for candy money.

    Beverage companies loved the change over to plastic because the labor force could be cut in half with single use plastics.

    The downside to single use plastic we all know very well.

    Also in the save the trees campaign California and elsewhere enacted strict regulations on what could be done with trees.

    We are now seeing the results of that with California burning,they blame it on the power company but yet regulated every branch cut in keeping the power lines clear it cost them millions,no it did not cost the power company millions,it cost the consumer millions,unnecessary.

    They have know for years that hemp is a suitable paper product.

    Save the planet by cleaning up our rivers and streams of industrial pollution then turn right around and promote more products that contain toxic chemicals that litter our oceans,highways and waterways.

    Save the ozone,Du Pont held the sole patent for refrigeration products,the one most are familiar with is R12,which was used in our cars,refrigerators,air conditioning etc.

    DuPonts patent was set to run out,they were already established and a multi billion dollar dollar company,how are you going to fight them?

    Simple,say that the R12 kills the ozone which killed Duponts patent and opened up the market to lots of the suppliers,the cost to the consumer?

    Billions. Unnecessary

    Switch to electric cars,buy a cell phone buy a smart TV or any other electronic device?

    It takes a little thing called Cobalt,it is currently mined in Africa by anybody that can dig,6 year olds digging in a mine 14 hours a day for a fewpounds of colbalt that they exchange to the broker for 50 cents that the end buyer pays $16 a pond for.

    You guys are yipping on about kids drinking out of toilets at the border.

    Colbalt is a rare earth metal that is crucial to any new technology,without it self driving or electric cars will not exist.

    China is buying up African cities to control it,Greenland also has a nice stash of it which is why Trump was interested in Greenland.

    Who ever controls the cobalt controls new technology.

    So in the push to a green planet remember everything comes at a cost and we are the ones in the end that bears the cost.

    So lets say a law is passed where everybody must drive an electric car,who ever controls the cobalt controls the cost of that car and if it is required to have it then you will have no choice but to pay that cost.

    You mention greed but what makes you think that the whole climate change is not based on greed? It revolves around trillio0ns of dollars in a new economy,are you or I going to collect those trillions,no we are the ones that are going to have to pay it.

    I do not care about climate change,we will never be able to alter its course,what I care about is how it is used to mislead the public and in turn costs the average worker money that they can use in a more productive manner.

    You can believe in it all you want but when you start dipping into my pocket based on a belief then we have problems.

    As it stands right now you can thank a 6 year old in Africa for our latest technology in saving the planet who dreams of being able to drink out of a toilet at the US border.

    Just remember that.

  10. #3710

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    Haley said former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and former White House chief of staff John Kelly both tried to get her to work around the president.
    “Kelly and Tillerson confided in me that when they resisted the president, they weren’t being insubordinate, they were trying to save the country,” Haley wrote in a memoir, according to The Washington Post.
    “It was their decisions, not the president’s, that were in the best interests of America, they said. The president didn’t know what he was doing,” she continued.

    https://m.theepochtimes.com/nikki-ha...p_3142424.html

    Seems like there are quite a few traitors in the midst that need to be tried for treason.

  11. #3711

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Haley said former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and former White House chief of staff John Kelly both tried to get her to work around the president.
    “Kelly and Tillerson confided in me that when they resisted the president, they weren’t being insubordinate, they were trying to save the country,” Haley wrote in a memoir, according to The Washington Post.
    “It was their decisions, not the president’s, that were in the best interests of America, they said. The president didn’t know what he was doing,” she continued.

    https://m.theepochtimes.com/nikki-ha...p_3142424.html

    Seems like there are quite a few traitors in the midst that need to be tried for treason.


    Ahhh!

    I knew it. Try to find me one picture of either Haley, Kelly or Tillerson wearing a Maga hat. All traitors. All spoken for by the Lefty cabal right from the start. It's a good thing Chump can count on stand up guys like you.

  12. #3712

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    ^ it is irrelevant on who wears what hat,it is not any government officials job to self determine what is best for the country outside of the process.

    Do a search on 7 countries in 5 years or terrorist Tuesday’s under the previous administration where suspected terrorist lists were compiled and hit teams sent out to eliminate them no matter what country they were in or if they were actually confirmed terrorists.

    Lots are in politics for self interest or money motivated and the line is blurry as to what is best for the country.

  13. #3713

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    That looks yummy and healthy for some warm toast poli-tricks aside! Absent of high fructose corn syrup I'm hoping!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimaz View Post
    It just occurred to me that I haven't seen any Annoying Orange videos for quite a while....



  14. #3714

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zacha341 View Post
    That looks yummy and healthy for some warm toast poli-tricks aside! Absent of high fructose corn syrup I'm hoping!
    Hudsons/Macy's

  15. #3715

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    Lot's of gift and kitchen shops carry Stonewall. It's made in Maine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maof View Post
    Hudsons/Macy's

  16. #3716

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    How come Schumer embraces the current “whistleblower” but advocates prosecution of Snowden who was a whistleblower?

  17. #3717

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    ^^^ All depends on who ox is being gored!

  18. #3718

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcole View Post
    Lot's of gift and kitchen shops carry Stonewall. It's made in Maine.
    Well heck...didn't know that. Mom worked at Hudson's and always brought it home.

  19. #3719

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    Outside of the big sign placed behind the Democrats that reads,If no impeachment Trump will win the 2020 the inquiry hearings are an interesting propaganda charade.

    Under the Obama administration the only help to the Ukraine was defense,electronics,night vision,some small arms in order to fight the Russians.

    Under the Trump administration they were provided Javlin anti tank missiles and more aggressive weapons.

    The difference is giving the Ukraine the means to actually fight and launch counter attacks verses just standing there.

    The Trump administration had already provided the support that the Ukraine needed after taking office.

    So why would he provide the support that the previous president did not While we are being told that he refused to supply support unless the previous corruption investigation was reinstated,it was canceled out before because Russia was bribing the previous president and investigators.

    New president in place based on anti corruption,so now is the time to get to the bottom of things,including the 2016 election meddling.

    How come after 3 years of the Democratic Party claiming election meddling now they do not want to find out about it.

    The monies that are talked about being held up are granted to the Ukraine who in turn use them to buy weapons from the United States.

    The United States is not the only country involved in the Ukraine as led to believe,NATO and many other countries are also providing support in the same manner.

    The long term ambassadors seem to have an ego problem and I find it crazy that they claim that the have no clue as to foreign policy is performed on many different levels,it seems like they are mad because they were not always in the presidents loop.

    There are 7 other countries that we currently are not releasing funds to because of conditions,personally if we as taxpayers are going to be giving other countries billions of support,there needs to be conditions,not just handing over that money and saying do what you wish with it as what has happened in the past.

    The Dems hold private hearings and cherry picked those who agreed with them in order to present in the public hearings.
    Last edited by Richard; November-13-19 at 12:58 PM.

  20. #3720

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    Basically the crux behind all of this is,under the previous Ukraine presidency and while still under Russian oversite,the guy that was in charge of the department of energy in the Ukraine set up shell corporations and siphoned off billions from the state owned gas company and every other energy company in the Ukraine,by giving his shell companies the contracts.

    Because United States taxpayer funds and also UK funds a corruption investigation was opened.

    The United States and the UK froze bank accounts until the outcome was determined in the courts,the prosecutors accepted bribes and closed the case in the Ukraine which freed up the bank accounts and the money disappeared the same day.

    The guy accused fled the country.

    The things why the United States has an involvement in the corruption in the Ukraine that needs to be resolved.

    The return of millions of United States taxpayer dollars that were spent on the corruption investigation under the previous administration.

    Keep in mind that while all of this was happening,Biden’s son was on the board of directors of the very company where billions were being siphoned off.

    The use of the Ukraine as a proxy for the Russians in order to intervene in the United States 2016 election,so there was no direct ties to Russia.

    It boils down to,does the president of the United States have the responsibility to get to the bottom of things considering the interests of the United States and its taxpayers.

    As a United States citizen do you feel it is okay to let an investigation go that involves corruption and includes United States politicians and private citizens on the scope of billions?

    Everybody wants to know what happened in 2016,the Ukraine is the source that has the evidence and answers.

    The bigger question is why does the Democratic Party or certain elements not want that evidence to come to light,so much that they will impeach a president in order to not bring it to light.

    Even more so,how does a long term ambassador to the Ukraine that is well aware and was present when the corruption was in full swing,claim that he has never heard of cloudstrick.

    Ambassadors are held accountable by the state department.

    It was Hillary Clinton who served under the state department that implemented cloudstrike in the first place.

    I would agree that we as a nation play dirty when it comes to other countries in the interests of national security or what we feel is in our best interests,but is it best policy for our individual government organizations to play games outside of the best interests of the country without the presidents knowlage.

    The state Department has done that under both the Obama administration and under the Trump administration,it also was behind Benghazi in which Hillary became the patsy for.

    I think she was a snake being handled by the snake handlers and we really need to get to the bottom of it,Trump is really the least of the worries to the never Trumpers when you have this stuff happening.

  21. #3721

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    It boils down to,does the president of the United States have the responsibility to get to the bottom of things considering the interests of the United States and its taxpayers.
    That's a huge load of bullshit. Trump was more than willing to hurt Ukraine (which helps Russia) if they wouldn't smear his political opponent. He was willing to damage our national interest for his political gain.

    Want to know why no direct witnesses have made testimony? It's because Trump and his administration have forbade them. It's called obstructing justice.

    Trump is a fraud. You've been had.

  22. #3722

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    Quote Originally Posted by 48307 View Post
    That's a huge load of bullshit. Trump was more than willing to hurt Ukraine (which helps Russia) if they wouldn't smear his political opponent. He was willing to damage our national interest for his political gain.

    Want to know why no direct witnesses have made testimony? It's because Trump and his administration have forbade them. It's called obstructing justice.

    Trump is a fraud. You've been had.
    What really helped Russia was the Obama administration helping overthrow the elected government of Ukraine. According to Kerry, Russia used that incident as an excuse to invade and take over Crimea. (Something similar happened in Syria) The elephant in the room remains Obama's idiotic interventionist foreign policy. Were it not for that, Ukraine would still be in one piece and we wouldn't be having this conversation about whether presidents can hold up funding to investigate illegality. You would, i'm guessing, prefer that Trump had rubber stamped all the money being dumped on crooks, including some American crooks, in Ukraine.

  23. #3723

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    The elephant in the room is Hunter Biden.

    His skill level was less then 99% of everybody on this board and had zero energy experience.

    But yet he was placed on the board of a multi billion dollar foreign energy board of directors.

    Why?

    I guess if you had an interest or connection with that company but did not want to have the appearance of a connection,you would place somebody that you trust on the board who actually would not have to have any experience,just a face of recognition as a representative which gives you culpable deniability.

    When you have countries like the Ukraine,Sryia etc. and there is little over-site and pretty much run by oligarchs,there is billions to be made and everybody gets into the pie.

    Why did Obama refuse to send the Ukraine offensive weapons,because he made a deal with Russia who had thier people in place running the Ukraine that was robbing the energy sector of billions.

    The Ukraine gave us thier nuclear weapons and left themselves naked to the Russians.

    So Obama gave them defensive weapons to make it look like they had our support but prevented them from actually doing harm to the Russians and defending themselves.

    In 1994 the Ukraine had 2000 nuclear weapons,the third largest in the world,we convinced them to give them up to us 5 years later they are attacked by Russia,after we told them we would have thier back in case of an attack.

    We knew at that time Russia had operations in control of the Ukraine government and we did not want the nukes to end up on the black market.

    If we had kept our promise Russia would have never attacked the Ukraine,but there was billions to be made in the turmoil.

    And there sits Hunter Biden smack dab in the middle of it,somebody does not want you to know why.

    I think they need to stick Hunter Biden in Gitmo and use any means necessary in order to get the full story outside of the current diversionary tactics being played out.

    My guess is he will be Suicided before it gets to that anyways.
    Last edited by Richard; November-13-19 at 08:41 PM.

  24. #3724

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    Ah the Tin Foil Hat crowd. Whatever the Bidens did or did not do - Hunter taking a job for which he had no qualifications is not illegal - skeevy, yes, but not illegal - has NOTHING to do with the jist of the matter. Did the President ASK (it is the ASK that is a violation of our election law, not a "quid pro quo" or threat) a foreign government to provide him with something that would be of value to his election - namely investigating the front runner in the Democratic primary race. The highly edited version of the phone call transcript shows, unequivocally, that he DID just that. QED

  25. #3725

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    ^ But yet the ambassador to the Ukraine testimony clearly states in his 3 conversations with the president of the Ukraine in that time line there was no mention of the “deal” ,the “deal” was only brought to light after a political newspaper release.

    The President of the Ukraine was not even aware of the so called deal until it was printed in the newspaper.

    The supposed conditions of the alleged withholding of the aid was that the president of the Ukraine publicly announce that an investigation was going to be reopened.

    But the aid was already released before he even had a chance to do that or even before he knew about it,so the allegations that the aid was conditional on the investigation was actually a farce.

    You really need to watch the actual hearings and testimony,after I watched it then watched ABC afterwards they blatantly lied about what was said.

    It is like they are reporting what they want people to hear based on most do not have the time to devote to watch the actual testimony.

    The ambassador did very well with a prepared statement and he clearly said that he was not on any side but when grilled on the time line facts and where he actually received his information it was all second and third hand and was not direct knowledge.

    1 person made a statement and spread it to 6 who all heard it without realizing it actually came from one source and not the 6 different direct sources that they thought it came from.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FJcv2pQ1PsU
    Last edited by Richard; November-14-19 at 02:21 PM.

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