Welcome To Trump World

[oladub]

[[Trump) has now put the Iraqi government in the position of kicking the US out, which will result in Iran coming in - openly - and thereby given them a larger power base. This is a president too stupid to understand the myriad consequences of his actions.

I don't understand your position. I'm all for getting the U.S. out of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria ASAP. Sunnis and Shiites have been at it for 1,300 years. There is no point in being in the middle of that. We also don't need Iraqi or Iranian oil anymore. You seem to suggest that if we did leave, it will give Iran a bigger power base and that infers we shouldn't leave. Then, in your next post, you criticize Trump for indicating he wants to stay in Iraq.

When the deadline for U.S. troops to leave Iraq was coming due, Obama also tried to negotiate having them stay longer. Iraq still wanted U.S. troops out so Obama did remove them. I hope Trump will do the same. What choice does he have? The only presidential candidate who is vocally opposing interventionism is Tulsi Gabbard although Bernie, to his credit, did once vote to not get involved in Iraq.

I doubt that Trump will get anything back for 13 years of building up Iraq. We probably won't get any incentive cash back from Iran either after Iran scrapped its end of the nuclear agreement.

[ABetterDetroit]

zacha, While W. Bush was still President, the Iraqi parliament ordered U.S. forces out by certain date which came do when Obama was president. Obama, to his credit, not that he had a choice, removed our troops. Iraq wasn't able to handle the vacuum and requested that U.S. troops be sent back in. Obama obliged Iraq.

The Iraqi parliament is to meet and discuss Trump's action. Some in Iraq consider it a violation of Iraqi sovereignty. We can only hope that Iraq will order U.S. forces out of Iraq again. We have been there 16 years. Our involvement has cost us $1T and thousands of American lives. If Iraq doesn't want us there - good! We should get out of Afghanistan and Syria while we are at it. If European leaders want to moan and groan about Trumps actions as Commander in Chief and they know how better to manage the situation, they can do the next sixteen years.

Original take there oladub. I am highly dubious of your theory that the killing of General Soleimani will lead to a complete withdraw of American forces from the entire Middle East.

You seem to really like invented irrelevant points. European rulers are hardly to blame no matter how bad you want them to be for the drastic downward spiral of Iranian American relations. Take a bite of reality for a change. That is all on Trump not the Europeans.

[oladub]

Original take there oladub. I am highly dubious of your theory that the killing of General Soleimani will lead to a complete withdraw of American forces from the entire Middle East.

It was my expressed hope, not my theory, that Iraq would again tell the U.S. to leave. The good news is that subsequently the Iraqi Parliament has since voted 170-0 for the U.S. to get out.

You seem to really like invented irrelevant points. European rulers are hardly to blame no matter how bad you want them to be for the drastic downward spiral of Iranian American relations. Take a bite of reality for a change. That is all on Trump not the Europeans.

I didn't blame Europe for anything except for its criticism. Europe depends more on Iraqi oil than we do. It follows that it is in Europe's interest to pick up where the U.S. left off if Europe chooses to do so. To the extent that the U.S. reduces its presence in the mid-east, tensions between Iran and the U.S. should lessen. "France’s Secretary of State for European Affairs said: “We have woken up to a more dangerous world.”" It's alway been dangerous for American troops in Iraq.

[ABetterDetroit]

It was my expressed hope, not my theory, that Iraq would again tell the U.S. to leave. The good news is that subsequently the Iraqi Parliament has since voted 170-0 for the U.S. to get out.



I didn't blame Europe for anything except for its criticism. Europe depends more on Iraqi oil than we do. It follows that it is in Europe's interest to pick up where the U.S. left off if Europe chooses to do so. To the extent that the U.S. reduces its presence in the mid-east, tensions between Iran and the U.S. should lessen. "France’s Secretary of State for European Affairs said: “We have woken up to a more dangerous world.”" It's alway been dangerous for American troops in Iraq.

The currant crisis between America and the Islamic Republic of Iran has little to do with IRAQ. They are just a convenient battlefield.

Connect the damn dots and pay less attention to the stupid smoke screen.

On September 14 somebody attacked the largest oil processing facility in the world in Saudi Arabia. Less than 4 months later we are on the brink of war against Iran. It is Saudi oil again and again over and over with these GD Republicans.

Where did Trump take his first official International trip on Air Force One as President? Who had a major problem with the Iran nuclear deal besides the Israelis? Whose bullshit does Trump keep buying and pushing? The answer is always the same.

“But...but... he said he wants out of the wars” He says and tweets damn near everything at one time or another. He contradicts himself often. How can anyone keep taking him at his word? He has been President for three years it is long past due to judge him by his actions and not by his moronic pep rallies.

Face the truth oladub. We are yet again on the brink of war to protect Saudi interests. Not American interests. Saudi interest. Worse yet, they suck at making smart moves in their own interest but somehow we still follow their stupid lead even though it is never their own blood spilled when it all goes to shit.

[Canadian Visitor]

For one moment, lets put aside what we imagine agendas might be; and only examine the contemporary evidence.

I surveyed newscasts today from several countries, notably the U.S., Canada, and the U.K

I see the drumbeats of war. I'm not one inclined to conspiracy theories. I don't think you can let 100 journalists or their editors in a plot and not have that blow open..........

But we all understand that governments, directly, and indirectly sometimes influence the agenda of whats reported, and even how.

Everything to me, smells like a war is brewing. To be clear, I hope I'm wrong.

But it doesn't look good to me.

I have no sympathy for the House of Saud, or the regime in Iran.......but the chances that this does not end well for many more is tangible.

Again, I hope I'm wrong.

[ABetterDetroit]

For one moment, lets put aside what we imagine agendas might be; and only examine the contemporary evidence.

I surveyed newscasts today from several countries, notably the U.S., Canada, and the U.K

I see the drumbeats of war. I'm not one inclined to conspiracy theories. I don't think you can let 100 journalists or their editors in a plot and not have that blow open..........

But we all understand that governments, directly, and indirectly sometimes influence the agenda of whats reported, and even how.

Everything to me, smells like a war is brewing. To be clear, I hope I'm wrong.

But it doesn't look good to me.

I have no sympathy for the House of Saud, or the regime in Iran.......but the chances that this does not end well for many more is tangible.

Again, I hope I'm wrong.

I hear the same drum beats CV and I agree it doesn’t look good.

If there is any hope for diplomacy or mediation of any kind I hope it comes soon because it is badly needed immediately.

[oladub]

The currant crisis between America and the Islamic Republic of Iran has little to do with IRAQ. They are just a convenient battlefield.

Connect the damn dots and pay less attention to the stupid smoke screen.

On September 14 somebody attacked the largest oil processing facility in the world in Saudi Arabia. Less than 4 months later we are on the brink of war against Iran. It is Saudi oil again and again over and over with these GD Republicans.

Where did Trump take his first official International trip on Air Force One as President? Who had a major problem with the Iran nuclear deal besides the Israelis? Whose bullshit does Trump keep buying and pushing? The answer is always the same.

“But...but... he said he wants out of the wars” He says and tweets damn near everything at one time or another. He contradicts himself often. How can anyone keep taking him at his word? He has been President for three years it is long past due to judge him by his actions and not by his moronic pep rallies.

Face the truth oladub. We are yet again on the brink of war to protect Saudi interests. Not American interests. Saudi interest. Worse yet, they suck at making smart moves in their own interest but somehow we still follow their stupid lead even though it is never their own blood spilled when it all goes to shit.

The President of the United States bowing to Saudi King Abdullah.

ABD, I'm on record here as wanting the United States out of middle eastern countries ASAP. I noticed you aren't. I hear a lot of Trump bashing but besides Gabbard and maybe Bernie, Democrats aren't saying much about bringing the troops home either. A couple of months ago, Democrats were mad at Trump for getting 400 troops out of harms way in Syria. This week, they are mad at Trump for killing someone who had been killing U.S. troops. What next? Senators Clinton and Kerry, among others, helped get us into Iraq. Hillary was a cheerleader for Bush's war in Iraq. So, do you want to get our troops out ASAP or leave them there a little longer? Please elaborate.

[Dan Wesson]

Y'all know that Iran ain't got no Walmarts?



They only got Targets.

[rb336]

Y'all know that Iran ain't got no Walmarts?
They only got Targets.

Isn't that dumb?

[ABetterDetroit]

The President of the United States bowing to Saudi King Abdullah.

ABD, I'm on record here as wanting the United States out of middle eastern countries ASAP. I noticed you aren't. I hear a lot of Trump bashing but besides Gabbard and maybe Bernie, Democrats aren't saying much about bringing the troops home either. A couple of months ago, Democrats were mad at Trump for getting 400 troops out of harms way in Syria. This week, they are mad at Trump for killing someone who had been killing U.S. troops. What next? Senators Clinton and Kerry, among others, helped get us into Iraq. Hillary was a cheerleader for Bush's war in Iraq. So, do you want to get our troops out ASAP or leave them there a little longer? Please elaborate.

Trumps curtsy

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ind...016.html%3famp

[oladub]

Trumps curtsy

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ind...016.html%3famp

Curtsy definition: a woman's or girl's formal greeting.

Trump is accepting a gift from someone who is shorter. Obama is bowing. Obama is making a formal greeting. There's a difference. Apples to apples below-


I was sort of hoping that you would endorse removing our troops from Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan in addition to bashing Trump.

[Maof]

And so it begins....https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/07/polit...raq/index.html

[aj3647]

I doubt that Trump will get anything back for 13 years of building up Iraq. We probably won't get any incentive cash back from Iran either after Iran scrapped its end of the nuclear agreement.

You mean they scrapped their end of the deal that Trump scrapped all the way back in May?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44045957

How terribly unfair of them not to continue to follow a deal that Trump scrapped first!

To the extent that the U.S. reduces its presence in the mid-east, tensions between Iran and the U.S. should lessen.

And yet...

750 soldiers with 82nd Airborne headed for CENTCOM, additional 4,000 troops expected to deploy as Iran tensions mount

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashp...ensions-mount/

So let's look at the end result here:
-THOUSANDS MORE American troops into harm's way
-Whereas once Iraq was a dangerous place for Americans to be, now the entire Middle East [[and indeed anywhere within Iranian ballistic missile range) is now a dangerous place to be for Americans.

Win, Oladub? Trump's making things better in your opinion, is he? Next up comes retaliatory U.S. missile strikes and airstrikes on Iran itself. You shit yourself with rage over Obama and Libya, and here you are making fucking excuses for a conflict that will be 100x worse.

[Richard]

I was to young in 1953 when the CIA backed a Iran coup in 1953,but I was there in 1978 when we took the Sha out and still there in 1979 when we tried to get the 50 hostages back,then there was the 5 hostages that Obama got released under the same cloud that they are trying to impeach the current president over,then there was the 10 sailors that surrendered to Iran also under the previous president.

I guess most are unaware that we have been on the brink of war with Iran sense the 1950s,this is no different now.

Well yes it is because Iran now finds support in the progressive left of the United States,they are the same now.

They share the same similarities,gain power through oppression,elimination of the constitution,run campaigns of hatred and smear campaigns towards thier opposition,then jail and kill everybody that disagrees with you.

We do not fuel our cars on Saudi oil,they provide raw crude to the shipping Industry,so anybody using the argument that we suck up to Saudi for thier oil is a hypocrite,because we do like our shipped in cheap products from overseas.

They are tiny as a country,if somebody like Iran were to take them they would control the worlds shipping industry,and that can crush economies real fast.

80s and 90s 70% of our gasoline came from Venezuela where we paid over market rate in order to prop up their economy to prevent the socialist from taking over,it did not work though.

Saudi is our landing strip in the sand,much like Cuba was to Russia in the 60s,Just our place to be in the thick of things,it actually has little to do with oil.

Nobody is going to tell Iran what they can or cannot do,so why enter into a nuke deal where we are supposed to honor our part while they tell us FU,that whole arms deal was a fake facade.

They are like the school yard bully that supports other bullies in other parts of the world,they push thier agenda and we push ours,the difference is thier agenda comes with suicide vests and terrorist attacks.

Once and awhile you have to kick the school yard bullies ass and bring them down to size and send the message that thier form is not tolerated,some times a spanking is just in order.

It does not matter if we go to war with them or not,which we may or may not do at this time,but one thing is for certain that day will come,always has always will.

Obama was a wuss when it came to foreign policy,these guys are thugs,you do not give them a kiss on the cheek and ask them to please stop,they only know one game and if you do not stand up to them they think you are a pushover.

Iran is like the US is 1/2 the country wants to be led by a socialist dictatorship while the other half wants democracy so it will always be a battle,then throw in the funding of terrorists across the world and it is a toxic mix.

How come everybody forgets and had no problem with Obama launching more drone and missile strikes then any other president in history with never approaching congress for approval.

There is nothing different going on in Iran now then what was happening under the previous president,or the president before them,or the one before them.

The Sha put a bounty on Bush Sr.

Bush Jr called WMDs and spanked them,we just can not be having these thug countries putting hits out on our presidents without repercussions,it’s like anything else you get them first before they get you.

Trump is doing pretty good on the providing jobs aspect,even on the international stage he is creating job openings in Iran.

We are going into an election year,Trump is not going to war but he is certainly not going to lay down like a wuss and screw this country like the progressive Dems are campaigning and wishing for.

He is going to spank them like they need to be,Iran backed Assad in Syria and is buddies/allies with Russia and China,but they still are doing attacks in those countries so they are not exactly on thier allies Christmas list and they know if they push to hard they are going to be in thier own little sandbox.

We already have a 50% democratic base there in country,we could throw an internal chaos so fast they would not even have a chance to think about a war with us.

[oladub]

You mean they scrapped their end of the deal that Trump scrapped all the way back in May?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44045957

How terribly unfair of them not to continue to follow a deal that Trump scrapped first!

"deal". I credit you for using the right word. It was not a treaty. Neither was the Paris Accord. They were flim flam Obama deals pretending to be treaties. Like two of the three little piggies, Obama came up with a flimsy deal. Even Iran isn't pretending to honor it anymore.

And yet...

750 soldiers with 82nd Airborne headed for CENTCOM, additional 4,000 troops expected to deploy as Iran tensions mount

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashp...ensions-mount/

So let's look at the end result here:
-THOUSANDS MORE American troops into harm's way
-Whereas once Iraq was a dangerous place for Americans to be, now the entire Middle East [[and indeed anywhere within Iranian ballistic missile range) is now a dangerous place to be for Americans.

Win, Oladub? Trump's making things better in your opinion, is he? Next up comes retaliatory U.S. missile strikes and airstrikes on Iran itself. You shit yourself with rage over Obama and Libya, and here you are making fucking excuses for a conflict that will be 100x worse.

I've always been for pulling out of Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. That's my record here. Your record is to bitch and bash Trump. Why don't you just say that you also want the U.S. to pull out ASAP?

Both parties supported the Iraq war. Senators Biden, Kerry, and Clinton were among those who voted to give Bush the their power to decide whether to go to war in Iraq. We are still there almost 17 years later thanks to anyone who supported those politicians. Trump did not start the Iraq War. They went in because of imaginary WMDs. Then it was ISIS. Now we are caught up in a 1,300 year old conflict between Sunnis and Shiites. Would you vote for Biden? Did you vote for Hillary? I would like to imagine that you support those Americans in the Embassy and air bases who are being pelted with missiles.

When did I say "win"? You are making stuff up again. I said "out". There is no way we were ever going to win over there.

Thank you for your armchair military advice. You should send
it to the Joint Chiefs. I'm sure they would like your advice on how to secure the Embassy and air bases without more defensive capacity.

Although you haven't expressed any ideas about how the U.S. should exit, it that's even what you want, I will. Since the Iraqi Parliament resolution requests that the U.S. should leave, then that is what we should do. We shouldn't remain there as unwelcome guests. To do an orderly retreat, we should do whatever is necessary toward that end as determined by the Joint Chiefs. Dangers include the possibilities of the Iranian army invading Iraq and Iraqis turning on us. No matter what happens, China wins. Every rocket we send into Iran comes out of our kids' futures but umbrellas won't be enough to stop Iranian missiles from pouring in.

[Richard]

^ at the moment Iraq cannot really do much,they have a temporary government in place,they can say things but really have little power of enforcement.

They are just basically in place to handle the daily running of the country,pay the electric bills etc.

Until thier elections happen then it could go either way.

[oladub]

^ at the moment Iraq cannot really do much,they have a temporary government in place,they can say things but really have little power of enforcement.

They are just basically in place to handle the daily running of the country,pay the electric bills etc.

Until thier elections happen then it could go either way.

I was thinking more like Iranian supported militias, random mobs like at our embassy and snipers. There must be a lot of pent up frustration and hatred toward Americans that might be expressed that could make road trips to a port more difficult.

[Zacha341]

A case of doing too much. Or being 'extra' [[the deep bowing) as the teens say.

]

[Richard]

I was thinking more like Iranian supported militias, random mobs like at our embassy and snipers. There must be a lot of pent up frustration and hatred toward Americans that might be expressed that could make road trips to a port more difficult.

1983 truck bomb killed 241 marines and service personal in Beirut,is the most notable,they were on base in thier barracks.

Over there just being an American paints a target on you no matter where you are always has been,there is the anti west kill the Christians faction that will always be there.

The only thing different now is because Trump is involved so the propaganda is going to play out like this is the first time anything is happening over there.

They have been sending American service bodies back to the states for the last 30 years,nobody never really paid it much attention.

They were organizing the technology for cyber infrastructure attacks,imagine a Coordinated power outage hitting cities like New York but several at the same time,they still have not finished hardening the eastern grid,shut down the entire east coast and part of Canada in one swoop.Nukes are obsolete anymore.

We have an entire generation hooked on not having cash on hand,shut the power down for a few weeks and watch what happens.Cities would be in flames just from the looting.

[Richard]

A case of doing too much. Or being 'extra' [[the deep bowing) as the teens say.

He irks me with that stuff,just like the female reporters that go over to report on the Mid East,they cover up out of respect to their traditions but when they are here and expected to respect our traditions then you are a racist for asking the same.

I think if Obama had his way we would all be down on our knees praying 5 times a day and attending mosques.

Most of the Mid East ones over there will extend their hand to offer a hand shake out of respect to you before they would expect you to bow to them.

Take the radical aspect ones out of the picture and everybody else is the same,they just want what is best for thier family,a lot are forced to fight in order to protect thier families from the ones they are fighting for.

[Maof]

"I think if Obama had his way we would all be down on our knees praying 5 times a day and attending mosques."

You probably believe he wasn't a U.S. born citizen too.

[Zacha341]

LOL! I don't think you have to go that far [[question former president Obama's citizenship) to get that he was clearly overly obeisance here.

The best, balanced gesture in most social/ diplomatics settings like this is do as others are doing, not more, or less. American's often overdo it, especially in difference to Islam.

A simple case of trying too hard! As evidenced by the look on the face of those he was greeting.

[Richard]

"I think if Obama had his way we would all be down on our knees praying 5 times a day and attending mosques."

You probably believe he wasn't a U.S. born citizen too.

You have evidence to prove otherwise?


The Iranian strikes on the US bases came with a two hour pre warning which gave personal time to get into the bunkers.

Check and checkmate,Trump got the freak and the Iranians got thier payback with the missile strikes to appease thier base and save face,that aught to really piss the Dems off because they did not get thier war.

Just cannot seem to win for losing,no Russians,no impeachment,no war,I wonder what they are going to try next.

[Dan Wesson]

LOL! I don't think you have to go that far [[question former president Obama's citizenship) to get that he was clearly overly obeisance here.

The best, balanced gesture in most social/ diplomatics settings like this is do as others are doing, not more, or less. American's often overdo it, especially in difference to Islam.

A simple case of trying too hard! As evidenced by the look on the face of those he was greeting.

Obeisance!!

Now there is a crossword puzzle word if I ever saw one.

[Zacha341]

^^^ I used it just for you!