Welcome To Trump World

[canuck]

Her son was born in 2011.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huma_Abedin#Personal_life

Were you thinking of this guy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imran_Awan

Chuckles. This is a real fun thread.

[oladub]

Pam, I missed the Awan clan in my short list of off-hand Obama administration scandals. Thank you for that addition. It was Valerie Jarrett, another Hillary colleague, I was thinking of. As you pointed out, it couldn't have been Huma Abadin as I previously wrote. The computer firm chosen to roll out the [[un)ACA with a no bid $678M contract was a Canadian firm already in trouble for incompetence for fouling up its Ontario health contract. It was an odd choice but Valerie Jarrett's daughter's husband Tony Ballisoon worked there and the company was owned by Tony's father Bas Ballisoon who was also an Ontario MP. Michelle Obama's college roommate also worked for the same company. President and Eric Holder attended the wedding of Valerie Jarrett's daughter and Tony Ballosoon and were reported to have had conversation with Bas Ballisoon there. Either its a long list of coincidences or was cronyism at its worst. The rollout of the [[un)ACA by this firm was a fiasco.

[carolcb]

Thank you for saying so.

[bust]

This makes me sick.

After the Kavanaugh Allegations, Republicans Offer a Shocking Defense: Sexual Assault Isn’t a Big Deal
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-c...snt-a-big-deal

From the article:

"A startling number of conservative figures have reacted as if they believe Ford, and have thus ended up in the peculiar position of defending the right of a Supreme Court Justice to have previously attempted to commit rape—a stance that at once faithfully corresponds to and defiantly refutes the current Zeitgeist. These defenders think that the seventeen-year-old Kavanaugh could easily, as Ford alleges, have gotten wasted at a party, pushed a younger girl into a bedroom, pinned her on a bed, and tried to pull off her clothes while covering her mouth to keep her from screaming. They think this, they say, because they know that plenty of men and boys do things like this. On these points, they are in perfect agreement with the women who have defined the #MeToo movement. And yet their conclusion is so diametrically opposed to the moral lessons of the past year that it seems almost deliberately petulant. We now mostly accept that lots of men have committed sexual assault, but one part of the country is saying, “Yes, this is precisely the problem,” and the other part is saying, “Yes, that is why it would obviously be a non-issue to have one of these men on the Supreme Court."

It sounds oh so familiar. We've seen it here.

maybe he did grind against her 30 + years ago, but the statute of limitations has also run out for Obama smoking pot, Professor Ford attending an underage drinking party, and whatever W. Bush and Bill Clinton did as minors should anyone decide to derail their careers or sue them based on what they did or were believed to have done as minors.

And from another thread:

I'm glad I don't have to answer to everything I did as a minor when I look for new work. Thank goodness for the statute of limitations.

Even this, in reference to victims of Jack Lessenberry's sexual harassment at WSU:

If these accusations are true, then shame on the victims...

Look who else is professing attitudes like this. More from the New Yorker:

"The people who appear willing to believe Ford include Rod Dreher, the American Conservative writer, who tweeted, “I do not understand why the loutish drunken behavior of a 17 year old high school boy has anything to tell us about the character of a 53 year old judge.” The former congressman Joe Walsh tweeted, “If stupid, bad, or drunken behavior as a minor back in high school were the standard, every male politician in Washington, DC would fail.” An anonymous lawyer close to the White House told Politico, “If somebody can be brought down by accusations like this, then you, me, every man certainly should be worried.” Bari Weiss, the Times opinion columnist, said, on MSNBC, that she believed Ford, and then asked, “What about the deeper, moral, cultural, like, the ethical question here? Let’s say he did this exactly as she said. Should the fact that a seventeen-year-old presumably very drunk kid did this—should this be disqualifying?” On Fox News, Ari Fleischer said, “How much in society should any of us be held liable today when we lived a good life, an upstanding life by all accounts, and then something that maybe is an arguable issue took place in high school? Should that deny us chances later in life?” [[Donald Trump, of course, called for the execution of the Central Park Five when they were teen-age rape suspects, and, as recently as 2016, continued to call them guilty, though they were exonerated by DNA evidence.)

What’s surfacing in these comments is something that has, up until now, mostly been dodged, or left unspoken: that it has traditionally been accepted for men to sexually assault women, particularly at parties, particularly when they’re young. But the fact that this behavior has been tacitly understood as permissible does not mean that people—even while young, even while drunk at parties—have understood it to be O.K. It’s true that our earliest sexual experiences tend to be messy and confusing, and that this is, to some degree, inevitable and natural. It’s also true that, even in the Reagan era, and even to a sloppy and inexperienced teen-ager, preventing someone from screaming in fear during a sexual encounter is a stunningly clear and universally recognized sign that something is wrong. [[On Tuesday, a female high-school student tweeted, “the emergence of this whole ‘teenage boys should get a pass because they’re not mature enough to understand consent’ narrative is probably one of the most unsettling things I have ever witnessed.”) Kavanaugh’s defenders are putting plainly a previously euphemized message: white and wealthy teen-age boys have the right to engage in criminal sexual cruelty as long as they later get a good job, start a family, and “settle down.”"

It was just "boys being boys", right?

Well, maybe when they don't fall far from a rotten tree, from the perspective of the tree.

Donald Trump Jr suggests women who can't 'handle' harassment 'don’t belong in the workforce'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/po...ont-belong-in/

It's hard to believe there are people who still feel it's ok to advocate for this.

[oladub]

bust, Since the title of your linked article is "Republicans Offer a Shocking Defense: Sexual Assault Isn’t a Big Deal", please note that nowhere did I say that sexual abuse isn't a big deal. It is. So are false accusations. I wrote, "maybe he did grind against her 30 + years ago". "Maybe" indicates that I don't know if he did. However, law requires proof; things like documentation, knowing what year and what place the story took place in some 30+ years ago give or take a couple of years, witnesses. If you don't have such things and all you have is beliefs and rumors, that is not law. It is more akin to a witch hunt.

I knew a psychologist who does hypnosis and past life regression as part of her practice. She said that she didn't know if there was any truth to the accounts her patients give of details of their past lives; often bad things. However, she said that patients often feel better afterwards. I'm wondering if Professor Ford's story isn't a bit like that. "Her allegations were documented by her therapist in notes from sessions in 2012 and 2013". - Vox 9/19

Regarding the abuse of women, I suggest doing a Google images search for the term "Biden groping" to see photo documentation of some embarrassed women being groped. Or, alternatively, although facts and numbers don't seem to be your forte, Rep Kieth Ellison has two women charging him with physical abuse. One has records of calling 9/11 in 2005 and hospital records associated with her allegations. Documentation always trumps 30+ year old hearsay in a court of law.

Did you have some links any new witnesses, documentation, or new things Professor Ford remembered or anything else nominally in the world of facts to add?

[bust]

bust, Law requires proof; things like documentation, knowing what year and what place the story took place in some 30+ years ago give or take a couple of years, witnesses. If you don't have such things and all you have is beliefs and rumors, that is not law. It is more akin to a witch hunt.

I knew a psychologist who does hypnosis and past life regression as part of her practice. She said that she didn't know if there was any truth to the accounts her patients give of details of their past lives; often bad things. However, she said that patients often feel better afterwards. I'm wondering if Professor Ford's story isn't a bit like that. "Her allegations were documented by her therapist in notes from sessions in 2012 and 2013". - Vox 9/19

Since you are interested in the abuse of women, I suggest doing a Google images search for the term "Biden groping" to see photo documentation of some embarrassed women being groped. Or, alternatively, although facts and numbers don't seem to be your forte, Rep Kieth Ellison has two women charging him with physical abuse. One has records of calling 9/11 in 2005 and hospital records associated with her allegations. To me, this seems like firmer ground if your interest is that of protecting women from harmful men. Documentation always trumps 30+ year old hearsay in a court of law.

Did you have some links any new witnesses, documentation, or new things Professor Ford remembered or anything else nominally in the world of facts to add?

That's not the point, of course.
I've seen a lot. You have too.
Whether the professor is telling the truth, it's your defense.

[oladub]

That's not the point, of course.
I've seen a lot. You have too.
Whether the professor is telling the truth, it's your defense.

Yes it is the point unless you want to move the goalpost. In your previous post, you linked to an article about Republicans suggesting that sexual assault wasn't a big deal. Unlike witch hunts, law presumes innocence until proven guilty. Proof requires documentation, witnesses, My reply included that "law requires proof; things like documentation, knowing what year and what place the story took place in some 30+ years ago give or take a couple of years, witnesses. If you don't have such things and all you have is beliefs and rumors, that is not law. It is more akin to a witch hunt." Yes, I've seen a lot including liars. That's a good reason to insist on evidence instead of beliefs and rumors. Democrats have now paraded two women into the national spotlight. Neither's story, so far, has any witnesses. Ms. Ramirez story at least is about Kavanaugh when he was 18 instead of being a minor. Unfortunately, for her, the other people she claims were witnesses, so far, can't remember either the party, or any such thing happening, or Ms. Ramirez ever mentioning her tale. Next week, maybe Democrats will trot out someone else. What ever happened to the 'Pissgate" story the Hillary campaign paid an English agent for to destroy Trump?

Repeat: "Did you have some links any new witnesses, documentation, or new things Professor Ford remembered or anything else nominally in the world of facts to add?"

[carolcb]

Have you seen Judge Cavanaugh and Mr. Judge's yearbook pages from their senior year?

[Richard]

Lol,no but then again I also have not seen yours from 35 years ago so I can pass judgement on that.

Was he wearing a pink woman part on his head while drunk at a frat party?

We are in a dark place when we use ones 35 year old yearbook picture as a judge of character,does it disqualify him as a judge?

[carolcb]

It is not the picture. I graduated from HS 44 years ago, and I learned quite a few terms I did not learn in Wayne County or Washtenaw County from his yearbook...but then I was a church-going Teamster's daughter, not some uber-wealthy prep with no one to tell him no. Check it out between whatever it is you spend your days doing.

[Richard]

Well the accuser has admitted to be quite the promiscuous one as one of her past regrets.

I was also raised with religious background and one of the things taught was to not put yourself in positions of regret.

I have never attended a frat party or even collage for that matter but have seen actions at plenty of spring breaks.

I am thinking that attending a frat party with drugs,alcohol,and a bunch of young boys or men that are at the height of puberty, just kinda has to be one of those red flag kinda things in a woman’s mind.

Having written that I also have come across my share of wild and crazy women and it seems like we are inundated with popular tv shows where the women are as aggressive as the men are portrayed,20 shades of grey or what ever it was called made millions.

I am not shure how ones income figures into all of this just as much as trying to wrap my head around how come if it was such a traumatic experience why wait 35 years,they had police back then and even at that the least of it would be on record and not a he said she said thing when it becomes convenient for a cause.

He has had a career all these years and she said nothing,even now she passed the information on to a democratic politician instead of law enforcement,so she turned what was an alleged incident into a political agenda.

What message is being sent to future allegations,hold them until it becomes convenient?

The one thing that I do not spend my day doing is searching 35 year old year books let alone even remember what happened at some party 35 years ago.I guess I have a life,such as it is.

What is next , Katlin is going to accuse Bruce of fondling her 25 years ago?

Kinda ironic though,push collages to be the melting pot of entitled liberalism and wonder why they produce entitled products.Or alleged entitled products.

[carolcb]

I don't know who Katlin and Bruce are.

I can tell you, however, that I do know people who I knew many, many years ago, and if they were up for the Supreme Court, I would consider saying something. Some of the people who i knew/grew up with/who were the worst behaved, biggest mistake makers, are now wealthy arch conservatives. Go figure.

It seems to me in your 4th and 5th paragraphs you are blaming the woman. Shesh, would you not think you would be safe amongst such high standing white boys to be in a party with the Judge? The best schools? Not to mention his darn address was printed in his yearbook, as if it were not snobbery to the hilt to begin with. Remember all the 1960's and beyond BS about coming from the right neighborhood, right family, attending church?

Let me say this - women are not believed. Blame it on religion. Blame it on men in power. Blame it on the liars.

I don't know if you have children. If you had a daughter, and she told you that someone had touched her inappropriately, would you not want her to be believed? Would you want that person on the Supreme Court?

If nothing else the last year or so has proven that "absolute power corrupts absolutely".

Sit back and watch. Personally, I hope that he goes down. I know that our President, whose sexual behavior is enough to make you vomit, will chose someone that will have the same belief system as Kavanaugh, but hopefully isn't a sexual predator.

[Richard]

The problem is you are baseing and convicting people on what you perceive and not the facts.


That fact is yet another point in favor of Kavanaugh and against his accuser. The woman behind the claim has admitted that she can recall almost nothing specific about the incident, including its location, time, or other people involved.


http://conservativefighters.org/news...lear-his-name/


You hope he goes down,maybe one day somebody will also falsely accuse you or your family members and they will also go down.

As much as people dislike the current administration,that mindset is more dangerous then anything that they can come up with.

In the 1970s in Minneapolis 53 child care facilities were targeted for child molestation,they were all shut down and charges were filed,it was later determined that the person interviewing the children were coaching the children on what to say.

Hundreds of lives were ruined,businesses destroyed,hundreds of families left without daycare.

All based on false accusations and you would have been there yelling “ I hope you all go down”

That is almost as silly as demanding the FBI investigate,something that is not even in thier jurisdiction or scope of thier mission.

I hope he sues her so she lives the rest of her life in a cardboard box under an overpass,you claim to care about personal accountability but it seems to be selective to what ever the cause is.

As a responsible parent I taught my daughter not to put herself into situations and if somebody had touched her inappropriately she knew how to handle it.

I realize that men are the scum of the earth to you but in case you have not or choose not to notice there are plenty of scum of the earth women to go around also and they also place false accusations,that is why we have a system of laws,something happens then you file a police report immediately and get a copy.

Right then and there and not 30 years down the road,that is just a demented mind or simply put ... a wacko.

So basically it becomes a collective of wackos willing to circumvent laws to fit an agenda,whining about perceived circumventing of laws.

Kinda brings us back to the days of somebody says something and the town grabs a rope and heads to the nearest tree.

This has nothing to do with a woman and Kavanaugh,if it did it would have been released in July when she gave it to the Democratic Party.

So the Democratic Party stuck it in the drawer and held on to it as a last ditch effort to place a bomb shell in the bottom of the ninth.

What that does is show how low in the gutter a political party will go but they learned that from Hillary as a template on how to win elections.

Common sense would say maybe it is time to switch directions but when all you can come up with is perceived dirt verses real solutions it becomes clearer why the Democratic controlled inner cities are the same.

[bust]

I hope he sues her so she lives the rest of her life in a cardboard box under an overpass...

You can't even see it. You began your post saying "The problem is you are baseing and convicting people on what you perceive and not the facts." And yet here you are, believing the accused, and convicting the accuser based on what you perceive with no basis in facts.

As a responsible parent I taught my daughter not to put herself into situations and if somebody had touched her inappropriately she knew how to handle it.

What you just did is called victim-blaming.

...we have a system of laws,something happens then you file a police report immediately and get a copy.

Right then and there and not 30 years down the road,that is just a demented mind or simply put ... a wacko.

More victim blaming.

And I can't believe you still don't understand why a victim of a sexual assault may choose not to file a report. It has been explained over and over again. But only if you are willing to listen are you able to learn.

Here are just a few examples of the enormous information that exists on the subject.

Why Don't Victims of Sexual Harassment Come Forward Sooner?
These are eight reasons why victims of sexual harassment don't come forward.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...forward-sooner

Why So Many Victims of Sexual Harassment Stay Silent, Still
Two decades after Anita Hill's testimony against Supreme Court nominee Clarence Thomas, women are still punished for confronting their harassers.
https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/ar...-still/266820/

Toronto's Globe and Mail says "roughly 90 per cent of sexual assaults, even those referred to crisis lines, are never brought to the attention of the authorities."

Why women who are sexually assaulted remain silent
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle21414605/

And another testimonial, from today:

Padma Lakshmi: I Was Raped at 16 and I Kept Silent
I understand why a woman would wait years to disclose a sexual assault.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/25/o...ault-rape.html

By the way, I also understand. Not only have I had to endure sexual harassment [[yes, as a man), several women very close to me have been victims of much worse: rape and sexual assault. None of them reported the crimes. They already suffered far too much. Don't you dare blame them.

[Richard]

Nice try on the diversion of the victim blaming.

The discussion was about 1 female placing allegations against a judicial elect.

It allegedly happened 35 years ago.
She does not remember the date or time or even month that it allegedly happened.
Her witnesses do not recall it ever happened.

Etc etc.

So how is it possible that I can blame the witness or victim blaming when it has not even been established that it actually happened,the only thing that has happened, is she made the accusation.

You are playing judge and jury based on an alleged occurrence and have already convicted him.

Maybe you and carol can bring your evidence to the hearings and clear the record for the rest of the world.

I see you in a bar or restaurant or even at work,I go down to the police station and tell them that you grabbed my thingy and propositioned me,
the police show up at you job and question you,it is my duty to post on social media and inform your employer what happened who would be obligated to suspend you in order to protect the rest of the employees.

My word against yours but who do you think will be damaged more?

You are standing on a crowded bus,the bus hits a pothole and you bump into the woman in front of you,she turns around and slaps you and accuses you of grabbing her behind.

She calls the police and presses charges,now you are labeled and get to spend the time defending yourself and once again you would be a liability at your job.

See how easy that is,think really hard.

If you dispute my allegations or the woman’s on the bus you are victim blaming according to your bar.

Look very close at every single one of your co workers tomorrow,any single one of them could make your life a living hell and you would be considered guilty because you would be the bad person.

You really want to go down that road?

Life is tough for everybody and everybody has had some traumatic experience in life,if you do not deal with it at the time,why live 35 years with it and then all of the sudden come out with it.

He has had several well publicized career advancements under different administrations,how come she did not feel the need to come out under the previous administration and voice her feelings,is it maybe because she is a part of the resist movement that she quickly scrubbed from her social media ?

Sense when is it considered victim blaming when I posted that she should be held accountable for her actions if she is placing false allegations,notice a certain set of rules only seem to apply to a certain party?

If you really think about it,Adam was minding his own business and it was eve that tried to corrupt him with the poison Apple,so men having to defend themselves against unscrupulous women has been going for thousands of years.

[Jimaz]

What I see is the discussion being constricted to Kavanaugh's sexual harassment so as to distract from the many other objections to his confirmation, e.g., Trump nominating him as his "get out of jail free" card.

That issue alone shouldn't be taken off the table, even inadvertently. Crooks shouldn't be allowed to select their own judges — unless we want a "rule of outlaw" system of government.

[Richard]

We are already there,unfortunately we cannot just whip out the 6 shooter while we are playing judge,jury and executioner.

Thom told you he was a crook or you actually have a record of a conviction because no matter how much one cannot tell the difference between illegal and undocumented we still are supposed to be a nation of laws and supposedly innocent before proven guilty.

But I would be cool with you all’s shoot em on site and let god figure it out later way of thinking ,life would proably be much easier.

Tomorrow when you wake up your beloved president will still be Trump no matter how many tears fall.

[canuck]

Nice try on the diversion of the victim blaming.

The discussion was about 1 female placing allegations against a judicial elect.

It allegedly happened 35 years ago.
She does not remember the date or time or even month that it allegedly happened.
Her witnesses do not recall it ever happened.

Etc etc.

So how is it possible that I can blame the witness or victim blaming when it has not even been established that it actually happened,the only thing that has happened, is she made the accusation.

You are playing judge and jury based on an alleged occurrence and have already convicted him.

Maybe you and carol can bring your evidence to the hearings and clear the record for the rest of the world.

I see you in a bar or restaurant or even at work,I go down to the police station and tell them that you grabbed my thingy and propositioned me,
the police show up at you job and question you,it is my duty to post on social media and inform your employer what happened who would be obligated to suspend you in order to protect the rest of the employees.

My word against yours but who do you think will be damaged more?

You are standing on a crowded bus,the bus hits a pothole and you bump into the woman in front of you,she turns around and slaps you and accuses you of grabbing her behind.

She calls the police and presses charges,now you are labeled and get to spend the time defending yourself and once again you would be a liability at your job.

See how easy that is,think really hard.

If you dispute my allegations or the woman’s on the bus you are victim blaming according to your bar.

Look very close at every single one of your co workers tomorrow,any single one of them could make your life a living hell and you would be considered guilty because you would be the bad person.

You really want to go down that road?

Life is tough for everybody and everybody has had some traumatic experience in life,if you do not deal with it at the time,why live 35 years with it and then all of the sudden come out with it.

He has had several well publicized career advancements under different administrations,how come she did not feel the need to come out under the previous administration and voice her feelings,is it maybe because she is a part of the resist movement that she quickly scrubbed from her social media ?

Sense when is it considered victim blaming when I posted that she should be held accountable for her actions if she is placing false allegations,notice a certain set of rules only seem to apply to a certain party?

If you really think about it,Adam was minding his own business and it was eve that tried to corrupt him with the poison Apple,so men having to defend themselves against unscrupulous women has been going for thousands of years.

How do you like them apples ?
I am finally closer to understanding the reason your pussy grabber in chief is shitting himself. All them poison apples...

Shit happens when you get to know someone in a "biblical way" outside the sacred ties of marriage. It never ends well... lol

[Richard]

While I agree marriage should be held sacred it is interesting how selective the public’s version of what sound moral character is and who it applies to.

Then President Kennedy was and still is beloved by millions,the then president elect Hillary Clinton was not exactly the flying nun,and millions of Americans are stuck in generational poverty in the ghettos by a political party.

So what has he done while in office? What he may have done before was between him,his maker and his wife.

70% of the heroine flowing into the US,came through Canada.

It appears that Canadian politicians are bought and sold like playing cards.

Shania Twain,in an interview reflects on how they were so poor when she was a child she took mustard sandwiches to school for lunch,but was to proud to ask those with means for an apple.

And you guys dumped Justin Bieber on us,you really want to get into a lecture on morality?

Because something is in ones mind it does not make it real,no matter how hard they try.

It does not matter anyways because we are already dead because he started WW3 with Korea,o wait,no we are not.

Funny how all of those opposition scenarios have yet to play out,things are still rolling forward and he is still the President.

Thats gotta hurt.

[bust]

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr.

[Richard]

^ yes, we see that played out 24/7 on CNN and with the Fienstien crowd.

You should twit that to her or tweet,what ever they call it.

[Jimaz]

Trump Admin Sends 1,600 Kids to Texas Tent City as Number of Detained Children Hits Record High

The Trump administration is transferring detained migrant children from shelters across the country to a barren tent city in West Texas. The New York Times reports that hundreds of children are being sent each week from shelters to the tent city, which currently houses 1,600 children. The facility reportedly has no school, and children have only limited access to legal services. The U.S. government is now detaining a record 13,000 migrant children. We speak with Louise Melling, deputy legal director at the ACLU, who says, “We have more children in detention now than ever before.”

[Richard]

^ so what is the issue?

The parents are useing the claim that they will be killed if returned on the asylum application.

So the choice is a tent,a cot and 3 square meals with security provided or be dead.

In perspective they are not being sentenced to life in prison and considering the alternative even if they are there for a year,it is a small price to pay for a future that millions only dream about.

In contrast there are proably 13,000 Americans in California alone sleeping in the street that probably would love to trade places.

[Maof]

here's our president folks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJEx_t4VTgQ

quite a difference from last week.

“I thought her testimony was very compelling and she looks like a very fine woman to me, very fine woman,” Trump said of Ford while speaking to reporters on Friday. “It was an incredible moment I think in the history of our country,” he continued. “But certainly [Ford] was a very credible witness. She was very good in many respects.”

[gnome]

Does anyone think the change of seasons will affect our President’s terrible bone-spur affliction?