Welcome To Trump World

[313WX]

Republicans were under immense pressure to repeal and replace Obamacare too, that didn't stop them from failing to do so at the last second on multiple attempts. You shouldn't underestimate Republican incompetence at this point.

Susan Collins' vote on the Senate tax bill was predicated on the promise that Republicans would pass Alexander-Murray or some other legislation to fund and stabilize the high-risk pools for the insurance markets. That would likely ensure that Obamacare survives even in the absence of the individual mandate tax penalty being repealed. If it looks like the House isn't up for that, perhaps Collins' vote on whatever comes out of conference can no longer be guaranteed. Corker is a "no", GOP can only afford to lose two more votes. Either way, it looks like Obamacare won't be quite as "dead" as you think it will be.

But you're right, I think they'll put something on the President's desk before the end of the year if only so that their entire first year with total power in Washington wasn't a complete and abject failure. Even if that something is a bill written at the very last second by a handful of individuals in a dark room somewhere that the people voting on it haven't even read. But hey, this is the Republican Congress we are talking about, so there's always a chance they can still snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

The failure to fully repeal Obamacare is exactly why they're desperate to succeed with tax reform.

As far as Collins, even if she decides to swing and vote no on the final bill, assuming Corker doesn't change his vote [[don't hold your breath), Pence would still be able to cast the tiebreaking vote.

[canuck]

In the real world women have the same conversations about men,I think one would be hard pressed to find anybody on earth that has never said A derogatory comment about somebody else.

If Trump weren't such a dim star, a pale light, he might have a chance at winning me. As it stands, his lack of everything a statesman stands for, including his habit of casting the first stone so to speak, is unbearable.

It doesn't matter what his nationality is, but the fact that he is the head of state to the most powerful country on earth is a sad fact. The Weinsteins, Frankens, Spaceys were using to varying degrees their position of power over men and women and got their kicks, Trump is no different. He boasted about something I would be shameful about unless I were pissed outta my mind in my waking hours.

[Richard]

He said something that reminded people of the harsh realities of life when it comes to money and power and those who wish to rub shoulders with it.

That is what they are uncomfortable with.

I am in America,you are in Canada,I have a 1997 jaguar that I will trade you for a 2017 jaguar,comfortable with that? Or feel like telling me to piss off that it is not a fair deal.

Canada and a private Canadian company runs a pipeline through the entire country in order to reach the refinery in Texas and then export the finished product overseas.

Canada does not want a stinky refinery in thier country,send it to the US then chastise the US for having stinky refinerys and pollution.

But the guy that helped finish makeing that happen is not a statesman and subject to negitive response by your politions,he is more of a statesmen then me,I would have cut the thing up and melted for scrap to build Chevys

Like I mentioned before,we did not need a statesman,we needed somebody that does not beat around the bush with political correctness and to keep this country from becoming everybody else's little wench.

If he is pissing somebody off then he is doing good because they are only going to get mad when they lose the benefit of the upper hand,if it is a fair situation then there is no need for recourse because everybody is happy.

That is his job and duty to his country and not to line his personal friends and family plans with billions like other statesman and stateswoman.

Not that I will mention any names.

So let me know when you are ready for that trade.

[canuck]

He said something that reminded people of the harsh realities of life when it comes to money and power and those who wish to rub shoulders with it.

That is what they are uncomfortable with.

I am in America,you are in Canada,I have a 1997 jaguar that I will trade you for a 2017 jaguar,comfortable with that? Or feel like telling me to piss off that it is not a fair deal.

Canada and a private Canadian company runs a pipeline through the entire country in order to reach the refinery in Texas and then export the finished product overseas.

Canada does not want a stinky refinery in thier country,send it to the US then chastise the US for having stinky refinerys and pollution.

But the guy that helped finish makeing that happen is not a statesman and subject to negitive response by your politions,he is more of a statesmen then me,I would have cut the thing up and melted for scrap to build Chevys

Like I mentioned before,we did not need a statesman,we needed somebody that does not beat around the bush with political correctness and to keep this country from becoming everybody else's little wench.

If he is pissing somebody off then he is doing good because they are only going to get mad when they lose the benefit of the upper hand,if it is a fair situation then there is no need for recourse because everybody is happy.

That is his job and duty to his country and not to line his personal friends and family plans with billions like other statesman and stateswoman.

Not that I will mention any names.

So let me know when you are ready for that trade.

I'll trade you a quart of rubbing alcohol for whatever you have been drinking.

[Richard]

I'll trade you a quart of rubbing alcohol for whatever you have been drinking.

No,if you give up your rubbing alcohol then you have to drink Canadian whiskey as a back up,I may be a Dick,as meddle put it,but I am not that mean.

[aj3647]

As far as Collins, even if she decides to swing and vote no on the final bill, assuming Corker doesn't change his vote [[don't hold your breath), Pence would still be able to cast the tiebreaking vote.

Well the GOP better hurry up and pass it before Christmas, because it's going to get a teensy bit more difficult after the new year. Luther Strange's "yes" vote will disappear in about three weeks time, to be replaced by Doug Jones' "no" vote. If Republicans don't pass the tax bill before then, with Corker still a firm "no", Collins will be in a position to kill it entirely. The clock is now ticking for Ryan and McConnell to get this done and voted on in less than two weeks. We've seen them trip up before when under a time crunch.

[gnome]

If Senator from Minnesota, a Democrat, leaves - as he has promised - you will need to recalculate

[313WX]

Well the GOP better hurry up and pass it before Christmas, because it's going to get a teensy bit more difficult after the new year. Luther Strange's "yes" vote will disappear in about three weeks time, to be replaced by Doug Jones' "no" vote. If Republicans don't pass the tax bill before then, with Corker still a firm "no", Collins will be in a position to kill it entirely. The clock is now ticking for Ryan and McConnell to get this done and voted on in less than two weeks. We've seen them trip up before when under a time crunch.

Supposedly, they finalized the tax bill today and will vote on it early next week.

As I said before, the compromise is just a somewhat modified version of the Senate bill.

[313WX]

If Senator from Minnesota, a Democrat, leaves - as he has promised - you will need to recalculate

Meh. The governor already announced he's being replaced by the Lt. Governor [[who's also a Democrat) in the interim.

I'm not sure when the special election will take place, but it's not quite a swing seat either [[there's a reasonable chance the Democrats will keep it).

[oladub]

Gov. Dayton is appointing a staffer to replace Franken. She will defend her seat in 2018.

[jcole]

Gov. Dayton is appointing a staffer to replace Franken. She will defend her seat in 2018.

She's not a "staffer"; she's Lieutenant Governor

[aj3647]

If Senator from Minnesota, a Democrat, leaves - as he has promised - you will need to recalculate

Actually no. Franken didn't announce a date for his resignation, which means he almost certainly will wait until the Senate reconvenes in January, at which point his replacement [[who has already been named) can be sworn in likely the day after he formally resigns. There won't be a gap in that Senate seat and that is by deliberate design.

Also, no, it doesn't change the math even if that seat WAS gapped. You still need 50 votes to pass legislation in a 99-seat Senate. The only thing that changes is that you don't need the Vice President to cast a tie-breaker anymore, but you still need the exact same number of votes as before.

[aj3647]

Supposedly, they finalized the tax bill today and will vote on it early next week.

As I said before, the compromise is just a somewhat modified version of the Senate bill.

No word yet though on whether the Obamacare tax penalty removal is included, at least not that I've seen. We won't get the details on the bill until the end of the week and of course almost no one will have time to read it before it goes up for a vote [[nor will it have time to be properly scored for how much it is going to explode our deficit and national debt).

But yes, looks like Republicans are going to eek out at the last possible second their first and probably only major legislative victory before they get trounced in 2018 and lose the White House in 2020.

Aside from Doug Jones being seated in January, the GOP also has to contend with John McCain's health. If he dies or is otherwise unable to fulfill his duties as a Senator due to health reasons, that leaves the GOP with just 50 votes in the Senate. At that point, Corker or Collins or even Rand Paul can single-handedly derail whatever they want.

2018 is going to be a very interesting year.

[oladub]

She's not a "staffer"; she's Lieutenant Governor

Thank you for the correction. Prior to becoming LG, from 2006 through 2010, Tina Smith served as Chief of Staff for Minneapolis' Mayor. She is not a Minnesota native having moved there in the 80's to do marketing for General Mills. Tina Smith has an Ivy League degree. Her other experience includes being a VP for Planned Parenthood. As Gov' Dayton's Lieutenant Governor, she distinguished herself by shepherding the Vikings U.S. Bank Stadium through the legislature with taxpayers paying $498M of the tab.

Note: Tina Smith is the LG for Gov. Mark Dayton, a Yale graduate whose father was the CEO of Dayton-Hudson.

[313WX]

No word yet though on whether the Obamacare tax penalty removal is included, at least not that I've seen. We won't get the details on the bill until the end of the week and of course almost no one will have time to read it before it goes up for a vote [[nor will it have time to be properly scored for how much it is going to explode our deficit and national debt).

The details were released yesterday, and yes, the bill will include the effective repeal of Obamacare.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...eal/index.html

[aj3647]

The details were released yesterday, and yes, the bill will include the effective repeal of Obamacare.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...eal/index.html

I disagree that removing the tax penalty is an "effective repeal" of Obamacare. That will be the Republican talking point because they failed to repeal it for real, so they will try to characterize the tax penalty removal as a "repeal" so that the simpletons will think that Trump fulfilled his promise of repealing Obamacare [[when in reality, he did no such thing). All of the legal provisions of Obamacare will still be in effect. The only practical effect repealing the tax penalty will have is that it will destabilize the insurance market by depleting the risk pool of more young and healthy individuals, meaning premiums will go up. It's not an effective REPEAL of Obamacare, but it certainly is an effective sabotage of it.

And I would say "be careful what you wish for." If the insurance market enters a death spiral because of this, who do you think the voters will punish in 2018?

[313WX]

I disagree that removing the tax penalty is an "effective repeal" of Obamacare.

We'll have to agree to disagree there.

The mandate is virtually the glue that holds it all together [[Democrats have said this much). Without it, the whole thing falls apart. Even if it's still technically required legally to own insurance, it's now going to be a crime without punishment [[thus, no consequence for not abiding by the requirement)

[aj3647]

We'll have to agree to disagree there.

The mandate is virtually the glue that holds it all together [[Democrats have said this much). Without it, the whole thing falls apart. Even if it's still technically required legally to own insurance, it's now going to be a crime without punishment [[thus, no consequence for not abiding by the requirement)

No, actually, the whole thing doesn't "fall apart." Here's just a short list of what will remain even without the individual mandate tax penalty.

-Dependents can still stay on their parents' insurance until they are 26
-The Medicare "donut hole" still gets closed
-All the health care delivery system reforms remain in place [[Accountable Care Organizations, hospital quality initiatives, etc.)
-Medicaid expansion remains
-The state and national insurance exchanges will still exist
-All of the mandatory Obamacare required provisions for the individual market remain intact [[like the prohibition on insurers dropping policy holders once they get sick, the ban on lifetime coverage caps for essential services, etc.)

Not exactly what I would call a "repeal" if most of what the law was intended to do is still in effect after the bill passes. The only thing the tax bill does is throw a monkey wrench in one of the main funding mechanisms that was set up to cover the costs of providing health care to poor people and those with pre-existing conditions [[i.e. compelling healthy young people to pay into the risk pool).

I don't know if you realize this or not, but Obamacare does a lot more than just subsidize the individual-policy insurance market.

[Pam]

The media is proclaiming a "win" for Trump with the passage of the tax bill. The fact that the American people lose doesn't seem to concern them.

[Maof]

The media is proclaiming a "win" for Trump with the passage of the tax bill. The fact that the American people lose doesn't seem to concern them.

It's all about reversing everything Obama put in place. Why? Because he's black? Mitch McConnell needs to get lost too. It's exhausting day in and day out. Bullshit all the way! So, for all you folks that voted for this guy, you too are screwed.

https://www.thebalance.com/trump-s-t...ts-you-4113968

[oladub]

Total Trump victory. The rich will be the biggest beneficiaries but some of the rich will be stung by losing their federal subsidies from poorer states to pay for their mortgage interest and high red state taxes. A calculator says I'm $614 ahead next year. Here is the first calculator listed. Someone I know making more income said two different calculators said he will be $2,000 and $4,000 ahead. Of course, we can be righteous and return our tax cuts to Washington but what of all the folks who are pleased with being able to spend more of their earned money? Maybe Democrats can run on a platform of restoring higher tax rates if the Russian narrative doesn't work out. Then today, AT&T announced it was giving each of its employees a $1,000 bonus and Wells Fargo said it would raise its lowest wage to $15/hour. Remember how last week we were reading stories about companies using their cuts to do stock buy backs? Some aren't. German financial circles are expressing concerns that US production costs will consequently go down. I know that there are bad things in the bill but for now, this is going down as a Trump victory. Democrats somehow come off sounding like Scrooge over the Holidays.

[aj3647]

Total Trump victory.

Literally, he will personally benefit from these cuts to the tune of tens of millions of dollars, and over time, probably hundreds of millions of dollars to him and his family.

For starters, getting rid of the Estate Tax means that his kids won't pay any taxes on his estate when he finally shuffles off to Hell thanks to a KFC-induced coronary.

Next up is the 17.4% reduction on taxes for "pass through" companies. Fun fact: The Trump Organization is basically a collection of ~500 different pass-through companies owned or partially-owned by Trump and his family. That was almost tailor-written to benefit him financially.

And yet Trump has repeatedly, REPEATEDLY, lied and said that he is worse off under this new tax bill and that he benefits in no way from it. That is a "pants on fire" lie. I honestly don't know how he can keep getting away with boldly telling lies that are so obviously false that they don't even pass the smell test.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...x-plan-n825066

“This is going to cost me a fortune, this thing, believe me," Trump told an enthusiastic crowd in St. Charles, just outside St. Louis. "This is not good for me."

This right here is probably why he has steadfastly refused to release any of his tax returns. Because if he did, then experts can calculate exactly how much money he would stand to save from his own tax reform policies. And then there would be no doubt that his policies are designed to enrich himself at the expense of the working class.

[oladub]

As I mentioned, "the rich will be the biggest beneficiaries" and "I know that there are bad things in the bill but for now, this is going down as a Trump victory. Democrats somehow come off sounding like Scrooge over the Holidays. You helped proved my latter point. Meanwhile, I will enjoy the doubling of my standard deduction and younger, not necessarily rich people, will enjoy having their standard deduction and even day care tax deductions [[formerly a Democratic talking point) almost double. While I don't disagree that Trump and some of his cronies will also benefit financially, passage is a huge political victory for Trump. It wasn't that long ago that you were pointing out that Trump had failed to pass anything. Trump just put that criticism to rest; another victory. Like I said, if the Russian narrative falls flat, Democrats can always champion rescinding Trump's almost doubling of the standard deduction and day care deductions in 2018. One significant negative that is being reported is the loss of personal exemptions which hurts large families. Maybe Democrats could get that back.

I encourage everyone to Google "tax bill calculator" where a number of sites offer five question calculators to estimate whether you are a winner or loser under Trump's new tax plan.

[Zacha341]

Estate taxing needed to go no matter who slammed the door on it!

It's popular to promote it as it spells "get them rich folks", [[especially the repubs) but threshold of taxing level has been heading downward.

Particularly crazy as the moneys have already been taxed. Which all sounds great until it's your own estate affect!

I have a friend with large amount of tended and non-farm land it she was quite concerned about if estate taxing continues.

[aj3647]

Estate taxing needed to go no matter who slammed the door on it!

It's popular to promote it as it spells "get them rich folks", [[especially the repubs) but threshold of taxing level has been heading downward.

The "exclusion amount", i.e. the threshold of an estate's value that is not subject to the Estate tax, has been steadily RISING over time, not "heading downward" as you falsely claimed. It was $3.5 million when Obama took office in 2009. When he left office, it was $5.49 million. It actually saw a year-over-year threshold increase from 2011 to 2017.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate..._and_tax_rates

In fact the threshold is so high that only 0.2% of all Americans have estates large enough to trigger the Estate Tax, or to rephrase that, 99.8% of estates AREN'T subject to the Estate Tax.