2 Emergency Managers criminally charged by Bill Schuette regarding Flint.

**brizee** · December-21-16, 11:50 AM

"Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette's criminal investigation of the Flint water crisis moved a step closer to the highest levels of state government Tuesday as he brought felony charges against two former emergency managers who reported to former Treasurer Andy Dillon and were appointed by Republican Gov. Rick Snyder."
http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...rges/95644964/

At least one member of Snyder's cabinet, Department of Health and Human Services Minister Nick Lyon, has already been publicly identified as a target of the investigation, though Schuette has denied there are any targets other than those who are charged and no charges were announced Tuesday against Lyon.

Schuette brought 20-year felonies — conspiracy and false pretense charges — against four defendants he alleged conspired to operate the Flint Water Treatment Plant when it wasn't safe to do so. He said the defendants used a phony environmental order to allow Flint to borrow money to proceed with the new $285-million Karegnondi Water Authority pipeline, while tying Flint to the Flint River for its drinking water in the interim.

Well well well!

This and the bitchfight in Macomb county, looks like some of the ruling class here is starting to eat each other.

Dare I dream of Snyder getting frogmarched...

**Hypestyles** · December-21-16, 12:01 PM

Whatever the legal outcomes for the accused, I predict that Snyder will not face criminal charges at any point. He'll be "allowed" to go into another job/organization, possibly as CEO.
Mr. Schuette is basically guaranteed to be the next governor. An acolyte of his will be the next AG.

**Wesley Mouch** · December-21-16, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by brizee

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...rges/95644964/

Well well well!

This and the bitchfight in Macomb county, looks like some of the ruling class here is starting to eat each other.

Dare I dream of Snyder getting frogmarched...

I do hope that justice and not vengence results. "a fixation with finances and balance sheets ... at the expense of public health and safety." are strong words.

The Flint circumstances has become a media circus -- where a fixation with political games comes .... at the expense of truth. Let's be careful -- yet let's protect our citizens too.

**313WX** · December-21-16, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

Whatever the legal outcomes for the accused, I predict that Snyder will not face criminal charges at any point. He'll be "allowed" to go into another job/organization, possibly as CEO.
Mr. Schuette is basically guaranteed to be the next governor. An acolyte of his will be the next AG.

Howard Croft is also facing charges.

If you recall, he's the one who, in an interview with Curt Guyette, said bluntly that the marching orders came from Snyder's office.

So don't be surprised if he sings like a canary for a plea deal.

**Bobl** · December-21-16, 02:05 PM

AG Schuette's job is to protect the Governor, at any cost. [[sigh)

**Gistok** · December-21-16, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I do hope that justice and not vengence results. "a fixation with finances and balance sheets ... at the expense of public health and safety." are strong words.

The Flint circumstances has become a media circus -- where a fixation with political games comes .... at the expense of truth. Let's be careful -- yet let's protect our citizens too.

It's ironic that you use the term "fixation" twice in this single thread. Because if you go to the very long original thread on the Flint water issue... the only fixation you will find is that every 3rd post is yours... talking about not making it a political football.

Now that Republican Bill Schuette [[not my favorite politician, but one that seems to be fair in doing his work here).... he is "fixated" on getting both Democratic AND Republicans that were responsible for this mess... to be accountable and punished for their actions.

You keep using different words... but always saying the same thing.... is that really necessary? We understood you the first time... and the time after that...and the time after that... and the time after that....

**jt1** · December-21-16, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Bobl

AG Schuette's job is to protect the Governor, at any cost. [[sigh)

Nope,he doesn't car about Snyder, justice, Flint or anyone else. He cares about the publicity for his run for Governor

**313WX** · December-21-16, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

Nope,he doesn't car about Snyder, justice, Flint or anyone else. He cares about the publicity for his run for Governor

I had my doubts before, but it is now looking that way.

**Jimaz** · December-21-16, 06:27 PM

Well, convicted or not, this certainly throws a wet towel on the "wisdom"

of the whole Emergency Manager scheme.

I still say the reason they're called "Emergency Managers" is because their real [[secret internal dogwhistle) job is to exacerbate emergencies rather than to remediate them.

It appears these Emergency Managers followed their orders faithfully.

**DeLemur** · December-21-16, 08:13 PM

The Emergency manager, Gov. Snyder and Flint water crisis is really a travesty. I mean GM stopped using the water because it was corroding their engine blocks. The state brought bottled water to employees in Flint, yet still no one would listen to the residents. That the Governor won't step down is just another sign that shame is lost in 2016.

I applaud Schuette for widening the scope. Now he needs to take it to the Governor's circle. For a 'nerd' he certainly knew nothing about water treatment chemicals or responsible city management nor responsibility for gross negligence.

**Bobl** · December-21-16, 09:50 PM

And the taxpayer tab for the Governor's legal defense is somewhere in the neighorhood of three and a half million dollars, and soon will jump higher.

**Bigdd** · December-22-16, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Bobl

And the taxpayer tab for the Governor's legal defense is somewhere in the neighorhood of three and a half million dollars, and soon will jump higher.

Defense of what?

He hasn't been accused of anything has he? No charges?

While he may not have a hand in this,.. it certainly will be a massive blot in his otherwise stellar governorship,.. and will likely be the thing that keeps him from winning re-election by a landslide, if he wins at all.

EDIT,... I see now. Civil lawsuits.

**Wesley Mouch** · December-22-16, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

It's ironic that you use the term "fixation" twice in this single thread. Because if you go to the very long original thread on the Flint water issue... the only fixation you will find is that every 3rd post is yours... talking about not making it a political football.

Now that Republican Bill Schuette [[not my favorite politician, but one that seems to be fair in doing his work here).... he is "fixated" on getting both Democratic AND Republicans that were responsible for this mess... to be accountable and punished for their actions.

You keep using different words... but always saying the same thing.... is that really necessary? We understood you the first time... and the time after that...and the time after that... and the time after that....

Guilty of fixation on the Flint Crisis. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty.

I am fixated on shining a light on 'group think'. Fake News. Truth devalued. Demagogues preaching. Republican rubber masks lifted to show the Devil. I do miss it. Can we talk about Global Warming now?

Guilty. Guilty. Guilty.

**Jimaz** · December-22-16, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Bobl

And the taxpayer tab for the Governor's legal defense is somewhere in the neighorhood of three and a half million dollars, and soon will jump higher.

This morning on WWJ I heard those costs were approaching $5 million and yes, it's taxpayer funded.

**bust** · December-22-16, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Guilty of fixation on the Flint Crisis. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty.

I am fixated on shining a light on 'group think'. Fake News. Truth devalued. Demagogues preaching. Republican rubber masks lifted to show the Devil. I do miss it. Can we talk about Global Warming now?

Guilty. Guilty. Guilty.

Where were you shining your light when the group think, fake news, mendacious preachery, and hypocritcal demonization was massively orchestrated in support of your party's candidate? What recent american figure has devalued truth more than the demagogue-elect? And the republican party in support of him?

Guilty indeed!

P.S.: No need to worry about global warming. The incoming head of the EPA says it doesn't exist.

**Bigdd** · December-22-16, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by bust

P.S.: No need to worry about global warning. Our incoming head of the EPA says it doesn't exist.

Same with all the scientific data that clearly shows the Earth is cooling. 30,000 scientists agree.

**bust** · December-22-16, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bigdd

Same with all the scientific data that clearly shows the Earth is cooling. 30,000 scientists agree.

Did you get that from the same fake news source that told you Michelle Obama is a transvestite?

NASA: Scientific consensus: Earth's climate is warming

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

Wesley: Witness what havoc your party has wrought.

**BankruptcyGuy** · December-22-16, 01:44 PM

Two things:

1. I hope people appreciate that these charges are ground-breaking. Across the country, accusations against politicians take two forms: corruption with incompetence [[Kilpatrick) and corruption without incompetence [[Blago in IL). These are charges related to incompetence without corruption. It's new ground.

2. I probably wouldn't hold my breath hoping that these charges stick. Unless there are some "you should delete that email you sent me" pieces of evidence out there, and there very well may be, it will be awfully hard to make these charges result in convictions. The fact that the feds haven't gotten involved in charges tends to lead me in that direction as well.

Those who have said that this is probably [[not surely, but likely) that Schuette is doing this to distance himself from Snyder to further his 2018 gubernatorial campaign are probably right. To quote a great Detroiter [[Lily Tomlin), "No matter how cynical I get, I find it impossible to keep up."

**Wesley Mouch** · December-22-16, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by BankruptcyGuy

Two things:

1. I hope people appreciate that these charges are ground-breaking. Across the country, accusations against politicians take two forms: corruption with incompetence [[Kilpatrick) and corruption without incompetence [[Blago in IL). These are charges related to incompetence without corruption. It's new ground.

2. I probably wouldn't hold my breath hoping that these charges stick. Unless there are some "you should delete that email you sent me" pieces of evidence out there, and there very well may be, it will be awfully hard to make these charges result in convictions. The fact that the feds haven't gotten involved in charges tends to lead me in that direction as well.

Those who have said that this is probably [[not surely, but likely) that Schuette is doing this to distance himself from Snyder to further his 2018 gubernatorial campaign are probably right. To quote a great Detroiter [[Lily Tomlin), "No matter how cynical I get, I find it impossible to keep up."

Thanks, as usual, for taking us one more step in the direction of understanding.

Is the next cynical step to presume Snyder is orchestrating this... cognizant that he is now poison -- and can only now function as a Kingmaker?

Leaving aside the merits of the cases, the Flint issue was a very successful placement of guilt. Atonement is required.

**JBMcB** · December-24-16, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

Well, convicted or not, this certainly throws a wet towel on the "wisdom"

of the whole Emergency Manager scheme.

OK, so let's say the emergency manager laws go away.

Now, let's say for the sake of argument, Muskegon's finances are imploding. Their pension funds are empty. They have a top and bottom heavy city government that nobody is doing anything about. City council just approved a huge, high interest bond for building an AAA baseball arena that doesn't have a team yet. The DDA has been buying up land and doing nothing with it. Nobody has the political will to do anything to fix anything.

How do you fix this?

**313WX** · December-24-16, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

OK, so let's say the emergency manager laws go away.

Now, let's say for the sake of argument, Muskegon's finances are imploding. Their pension funds are empty. They have a top and bottom heavy city government that nobody is doing anything about. City council just approved a huge, high interest bond for building an AAA baseball arena that doesn't have a team yet. The DDA has been buying up land and doing nothing with it. Nobody has the political will to do anything to fix anything.

How do you fix this?

Chapter 9 Bankruptcy.

**Jimaz** · December-24-16, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

OK, so let's say the emergency manager laws go away.

Now, let's say for the sake of argument, Muskegon's finances are imploding. Their pension funds are empty. They have a top and bottom heavy city government that nobody is doing anything about. City council just approved a huge, high interest bond for building an AAA baseball arena that doesn't have a team yet. The DDA has been buying up land and doing nothing with it. Nobody has the political will to do anything to fix anything.

How do you fix this?

See, the root problem here is the rampant perversion of today's political language. Nobody can understand what anyone is saying.

If by "fix this," you mean "how do we correct the problem that Muskegon isn't going to hell fast enough?" then the solution is clearly to appoint an emergency manager. This is now proven. They can accelerate any disaster.

I once had trouble understanding why emergency managers and those who appoint them are so eager to destroy their constituent's lives. Now I can reconcile their words and actions by recognizing them as the parasitic saboteurs in power™ that they are. That way it all makes sense.

**gumby** · December-26-16, 11:45 PM

Bullshit. All you did on that other thread was make excuses for Snyder. You bought the Republican talking points hook line and sinker.

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Guilty of fixation on the Flint Crisis. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty.

I am fixated on shining a light on 'group think'. Fake News. Truth devalued. Demagogues preaching. Republican rubber masks lifted to show the Devil. I do miss it. Can we talk about Global Warming now?

Guilty. Guilty. Guilty.

**313WX** · December-27-16, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by gumby

Bullshit. All you did on that other thread was make excuses for Snyder. You bought the Republican talking points hook line and sinker.

Snyder could be charged today and he [[along with another poster who has a similar posting style as he does) would still find some way to yuck up excuses for him.

**Wesley Mouch** · December-27-16, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

OK, so let's say the emergency manager laws go away.

Now, let's say for the sake of argument, Muskegon's finances are imploding. Their pension funds are empty. They have a top and bottom heavy city government that nobody is doing anything about. City council just approved a huge, high interest bond for building an AAA baseball arena that doesn't have a team yet. The DDA has been buying up land and doing nothing with it. Nobody has the political will to do anything to fix anything.

How do you fix this?

Why fix it? Just let it collapse.

That was my argument early on in the Detroit mess. The best solution is to allow the entities that cannot manage their own finances to collapse and dissolve. The employees should be left with nothing. Pensioners with no income. Citizens with no services.

If this was what would be faced in a collapse -- there'd be no collapses. Like Mutual Assured Destruction, Municipal Collapse [[MC) would be something that citizens would avoid.

They would elect responsible leaders. They'd demand services. They'd push for efficiency. They'd demand results.

Yes, I know. It a fantasy. But at least one where the citizens, pensioners, and employees have a better chance than our current system where it the worst managed organizations get the most help to ensure ongoing and continuous failure. Its fun to dream.