Monroe Block Development

[Lowell]

Here are the demolition victims. I'm sorry to see that tidy building on the right go. I always liked it, have photographed it and always forget its name. Anyone remember, it was posted on this board once.



From Crains DB

[EGrant]

That would be the Pochelon Building.

[K-slice]

I thought that was unfortunate too! I always found this building fascinating as the designers seemed to incorporate elements of much larger buildings [[large flag poles, gargoyles and other ornamentation) into this relatively short and narrow structure.

[archfan]

I always liked the Pochelon Building, even though I hadn't heard it's name. The height and narrowness remind me of a European building, especially when there were still flags on those angled poles.

[EastsideAl]

As I think I may have posted earlier in this thread, the taller building on the right is indeed the Pochelon Building. It's named for Al Pochelon, a Detroit florist, socialite, sportsman, yachtsman, etc. who had the building built in 1913 to house his large L. Bemb Floral Co. [[named for his mother, who founded the business).

The lower building at the corner was built several years later as the original headquarters of FTD, the national and international flower delivery service that Al Pochelon was among the founders of. It originally had greenhouses and gardens on its roof for Pochelon's florist business. It was "remuddled" in true early '70s style by the union labor, workman's comp, and personal injury law firm that eventually became Sachs Waldman, who occupied both buildings until they were sold to Gilbert's company in 2013.

[Burnsie]

Any chance of the Pochelon's gargoyles being saved and installed somewhere, anywhere [[hopefully at least Michigan if not Detroit) where the public can continue to admire them? Or are they going to be mindlessly smashed to bits?

[Jason]

There's a whole industry dedicated to selling ornament and other parts from old buildings so I wouldn't be surprised.

[southen]

Pure speculation on my part, but I feel like there may be a slight redesign coming for Monroe Blocks much like we have seen with the Hudson's site. Periodically I check in on the architect's website, which tends to have the latest renderings of the project. The two attached images were among the most recent added months ago. They have since been removed.

Is the project expanding in scope or shrinking? I have a feeling they are going to be decreasing the size of the towers given the increased investment in Hudson's. I hope I am wrong though.

[Atticus]

Pure speculation on my part, but I feel like there may be a slight redesign coming for Monroe Blocks much like we have seen with the Hudson's site. Periodically I check in on the architect's website, which tends to have the latest renderings of the project. The two attached images were among the most recent added months ago. They have since been removed.

Is the project expanding in scope or shrinking? I have a feeling they are going to be decreasing the size of the towers given the increased investment in Hudson's. I hope I am wrong though.

Good observations. If I remember correctly, the tower on the corner of Monroe and Randolph was part of "Phase 2" anyway, so I think that project may be a few years off. If anything, it may get delayed a bit further rather than just constructed shorter.

As for the Monroe block tower overlooking Campus Martius, I think that was proposed as all commercial use. And while the block portion of the Hudson development [[the portion with commercial use) was increased slightly, the tower height increase had to do with the addition of the second hotel in the tower, not additional commercial space. And aside from the hotel [[if that is considered commercial), there isn't commercial uses programmed for the Hudson tower other than possibly ground floor retail.

[southen]

You are correct, the tower itself is going to be 800,000 square feet of commercial space. In the comparison I was looking at the Hudson development as a whole, including the podium development which has increased by several hundred thousand square feet of commercial space. I feel like the addition of that space coupled with the additional funding needed to increase the tower height might impact Monroe.

I am probably wrong though and DG will come back with new renderings of Monroe showing an even taller building.

[313WX]

Spec office buildings all across the country are struggling to get off the ground right now, so I'd be surprised if the all-office tower becomes taller / bigger. In the post Great Recession era, it's rare to see 800K ft. of office space get built without a major corporate hq or expansion lined up.

In fact, it wouldn't shock me at all either if it shrunk.

[Danny]

The Delta City Building Project is in full swing. And Gilbert head of OCP Quicken Loans is leading the way.

[Worldsgreatest]

Gilbert has made it clear they need the space and vacancy rates are extremely low so there's no reason why they would suddenly downsize Monroe block, that's just baseless conjecture. I wonder why Chemical Bank doesn't sign on for space in the tower instead of building new space on Woodward though.

[hybridy]

Spec office buildings all across the country are struggling to get off the ground right now, so I'd be surprised if the all-office tower becomes taller / bigger. In the post Great Recession era, it's rare to see 800K ft. of office space get built without a major corporate hq or expansion lined up.

In fact, it wouldn't shock me at all either if it shrunk.

Local design firms have been laying off and ceased hiring. This is indicative of the downturn as projects are based on demand/speculation. One local firm just dumped 30% of their staff in addition to high rate of departures already in motion.

Detroit feels this worse sooner and it will last longer evidenced by the longterm hemorrhaging population trend. Next recession is imminent and it’s gonna hurt real bad. I am glad I got out at high price and locked in a record low rate for mortgage. Time to batten down the hatches.

DG isn’t using conventional financing to build his projects. He’s using taxpayer’s dollars.

I doubt Monroe block happens in this economic cycle, of at all.

Hudson’s will flood market with unnecessary office space and hotel rooms, but it’s newness appeals. Ren Cen 2.0, if it even gets completed.

[Worldsgreatest]

You're making things up as hotel space in the city is severely lacking and desperately needed that's an easy way to fill the project, no flooding required. Office space at Hudson's is a small fraction of what's being proposed at Monroe block, more baseless conjecture. People have been warning about a big downturn since 2014, keep hoping though.

[hybridy]

You're making things up as hotel space in the city is severely lacking and desperately needed that's an easy way to fill the project, no flooding required. Office space at Hudson's is a small fraction of what's being proposed at Monroe block, more baseless conjecture. People have been warning about a big downturn since 2014, keep hoping though.

If a major conference can jump hotels in a few days notice without issue, this would indicate an excess of overall inventory. Ren cen marriott has 1k rooms and Westin would rather unfill rooms than lower rates to correspond with real demand. Only boutique projects are getting built...other metros have been flooded with flags/brands + boutiques.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...ac/1737321002/

[EGrant]

CityLab is not a major conference lol.

[southen]

I know this is just more "baseless conjecture" but I do find it interesting that the newest Hudson renderings show a Monroe Blocks development that is no longer 100 feet taller than nearby Cadillac Center, but about the same height like in earlier renderings...

[Dexlin]

I do not think you can tell that from this rendering, and even in the case that one could, it's still a rendering for another building. Not everything in the background is always illustrated exactly to scale.

It's probably time to wait until we actually hear something than over-analyizing and speculating something we've been given no word on. What we know for now is what we were given months ago about this project; that's it. This kind of tea leave reading for this project is getting a bit ridiculous.

[Worldsgreatest]

If they scaled it down to what was originally proposed then you wouldn't even be able to see it from that point of view since it was just barely taller than OCM, if anything this proves the opposite, nothing has changed. I don't think Cadillac in that render is even at an accurate position/height/width [[Cadillac is way fatter than that), same thing happened with the Stott building in past renders. They don't put much effort in super accurate scaling of background buildings since it's not important.

[hybridy]

CityLab is not a major conference lol.

ill grant you that, but filling 150-250 room block in the course of a few days between properties in the CBD doesn't say a whole lot.

[Dexlin]

Downtown Detroit is obviously not over hoteled. But I'm glad you know better than the professionals, apparently.

Give it a rest, already, hybridy.

[K-slice]

I agree with hybrid that an economic downtown is just around the corner and it will undoubtedly effect some of the projects we are looking forward to.

That being said, urban centers will still be "the place to be" no matter where the economy goes. Demand [[and thus rent) in places like downtown Detroit, RO, Brimingham, etc won't be as effected as suburban office parks in Novi, Southfield, and Troy.

[Atticus]

I agree with hybrid that an economic downtown is just around the corner and it will undoubtedly effect some of the projects we are looking forward to.

That being said, urban centers will still be "the place to be" no matter where the economy goes. Demand [[and thus rent) in places like downtown Detroit, RO, Brimingham, etc won't be as effected as suburban office parks in Novi, Southfield, and Troy.

I agree, and will also add that Detroit is woefully behind in the hotel offerings.

Ignore Chicago, and even just compare Detroit to Indy, Cleveland, Cincy, etc. If a coming recession spells gloom to the sparse amnount of Detroit hotels that will exist, I hate to image what is in store for our Midwestern bretheren in that regard.

[CrashDummy]

Hudson’s will flood market with unnecessary office space and hotel rooms, but it’s newness appeals. Ren Cen 2.0, if it even gets completed.

I think such direct comparisons fail to appreciate the enormity of the Renaissance Center, one of the world's largest buildings at 5.5 million square feet. Estimates for the Hudson's and Monroe projects together are little more than half that total, about 3 million sq ft. The combined office space is planned to be 1.2 million sq ft, well below half of the Ren Cen's 3 million. Hotel space is probably the closest comparison, with a planned addition of about 1000 rooms compared to 1300 at the Marriott.

The Monroe and Hudson's projects do remedy what the Ren Cen failed to do though, which is add residential. Estimates are a modest 750 units, a good amount, but will hardly flood the market.