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  1. #326

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    What's taking so long! Where is the development Gilbert??

  2. #327

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    This might be a reason why they're picking up pace on this project again. Office rent in the city has dramatically risen just since last year alone.

    https://www.crainsdetroit.com/voices...ildings-report

  3. #328

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetBill View Post
    Frankly, I wish they would scrap the project ( likely will happen anyway ), and concentrate their time and resources and build a great project on the Hudsons site, as planned..
    lol no. there is not a chance in hell this gets scrapped. This is prime downtown real estate and the city office market is extremely healthy. They need an anchor tenant though aside from quicken which seems like will occupy much of this space too.

  4. #329

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro25 View Post
    This might be a reason why they're picking up pace on this project again. Office rent in the city has dramatically risen just since last year alone.

    https://www.crainsdetroit.com/voices...ildings-report
    Tower 200 in the RenCen is over half-empty? Is this just a recent downsizing by GM?

  5. #330

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    Quote Originally Posted by 401don View Post
    Tower 200 in the RenCen is over half-empty? Is this just a recent downsizing by GM?
    I would assume that they moved people around just to make 1 large RenCen space more marketable...

    https://www.crainsdetroit.com/voices...ildings-report

  6. #331
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    54

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    I would doubt anything comes of this as proposed. Taubman said in the 90's, residents lead to retail. Perhaps some of that comes to fruition in the D.

  7. #332
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    54

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    No amount of marketing will lead to robust residential. High Rises in particular

  8. #333

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    Any updates on the project, from somebody on the inside

  9. #334

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    Im afraid we will be asking this same question a year from now. Just hoping Hudsons site starts on something visible from ground level within a year and that it has an idea what exactly they are building and its purpose. It was mentioned earlier here that city office and residential demand and needs are at a premium. Bedrock has done incredible things but thats a marketing hype Bedrock has been using for several years now to hopefully encourage new investors and tennants. Reality is its no where near that..The proof is in the putting.. Progress presently downtown is good, but not at a break neck pace. These major projects are progressing very slowly or none at all. Completing the Book Tower will be a great accomplishment and they seem to be-on point there. Very slow development like we are experiencing on the other big projects simply doesn’t happen in a demanding market as developers construct as fast as they possibly can to meet real demands. Downtown is actually doing very nicely, and we should all be very proud of it, and there’s certainly good solid new development coming in, but I really feel we’re at a ratio now that our needs are being met by existing facilities, renovations, and some smaller new development. Large new commercial tenants and hotel conglomerates are not lining up to get into downtown presently,, thats why Hudsons is crawling, and Monroe is completely stalled.
    Last edited by DetBill; November-08-19 at 10:12 PM.

  10. #335

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetBill View Post
    Im afraid we will be asking this same question a year from now. Just hoping Hudsons site starts on something visible from ground level within a year and that it has an idea what exactly they are building and its purpose. It was mentioned earlier here that city office and residential demand and needs are at a premium. Bedrock has done incredible things but thats a marketing hype Bedrock has been using for several years now to hopefully encourage new investors and tennants. Reality is its no where near that..The proof is in the putting.. Progress presently downtown is good, but not at a break neck pace. These major projects are progressing very slowly or none at all. Completing the Book Tower will be a great accomplishment and they seem to be-on point there. Very slow development like we are experiencing on the other big projects simply doesn’t happen in a demanding market as developers construct as fast as they possibly can to meet real demands. Downtown is actually doing very nicely, and we should all be very proud of it, and there’s certainly good solid new development coming in, but I really feel we’re at a ratio now that our needs are being met by existing facilities, renovations, and some smaller new development. Large new commercial tenants and hotel conglomerates are not lining up to get into downtown presently,, thats why Hudsons is crawling, and Monroe is completely stalled.
    The City is still a very difficult place to do business and developments. It has gotten much better no question, but “getting better” is still well short of being good.

    Bedrock has the past experience, money, and connections to get things accomplished. But for developers not familiar with the process, it is often too complicated to get the necessary permit approvals. Adding onto the onion, the city has historically been both very corrupt and incompetent. Thus when a developer today runs into red tape, an
    unfamiliar developer likely doesn’t know if they are just at a bureaucratic stand still, or if they need to pay someone off. It is more often the former, but given the city’s past, it is easy to see why an unfamiliar developer might think it is the latter.

    Anyway, all of that makes it complicated for new developers to join Bedrock and crew in the city. Without enough financial backing and someone to guide you through the process, the maze can be overwhelming.

  11. #336

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    This will obviously be built eventually. Quicken and the family of companies will need the space with their absurdly high growth and complex mixed use projects do not just happen right away as some are saying.

    I think people forget how much Bedrock is juggling right now. Countless major renovations and new construction. Nobody but the most skilled and competent development company could pull this sort of stuff off we're very lucky to have them as most other cities would kill for it.

  12. #337

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro25 View Post
    This will obviously be built eventually. Quicken and the family of companies will need the space with their absurdly high growth and complex mixed use projects do not just happen right away as some are saying.

    I think people forget how much Bedrock is juggling right now. Countless major renovations and new construction. Nobody but the most skilled and competent development company could pull this sort of stuff off we're very lucky to have them as most other cities would kill for it.
    Saying "most other cities would kill for it" is quite the exaggeration.

    Most cities don't need only one developmemt company because they have tens, if not hundreds of Bedrocks / Quickens / Gilberts working on various projects of this scale right now

  13. #338

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    Saying "most other cities would kill for it" is quite the exaggeration.

    Most cities don't need only one developmemt company because they have tens, if not hundreds of Bedrocks / Quickens / Gilberts working on various projects of this scale right now
    Most cities have hundreds of Bedrocks/Quickens/Gilberts working on projects of this size? Now THAT is an exaggeration.

  14. #339

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast View Post
    Most cities have hundreds of Bedrocks/Quickens/Gilberts working on projects of this size? Now THAT is an exaggeration.
    Maybe not hundreds? But I swear, where I live in Austin, not a day goes by where some new tower isn’t announced. Wish I could spread the love and send some development that way to Michigan!! I’m worried what next year’s recession will do to Detroits’s development....

  15. #340

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    When folks have said that nothing is happening at the Hudson's site, I have combated that falsehood.

    To say that nothing is happening at the Monroe blocks site is an accurate statement.

    I don't buy that it has anything to do with One Campus Martius or the Hudson's site. I think it has everything to do with market conditions, demand, and financing.

    Gilbert\Bedrock still has plenty of credibility with what they have renovated and built. If they Hudson's site is stalled for whatever reason I hope they will just be honest.

    For me the big focus right now is the Hudson's site. I hope that it gets finished. All the evidence at the Hudson's site suggests they are fully committed. Hopefully it will add onto the snowball and help build momentum toward the Monroe Blocks.

    Although, realistically, a recession is coming and could delay some of the skyward progress beyond the Hudson's site.

  16. #341

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmberko11 View Post
    Maybe not hundreds? But I swear, where I live in Austin, not a day goes by where some new tower isn’t announced. Wish I could spread the love and send some development that way to Michigan!! I’m worried what next year’s recession will do to Detroits’s development....
    Thanks for getting my point, that being there are numerous developers like Bedrock working on large scale projects in most cities. So there's no reason for them to trade that for Detroit's situations.

    To your point about a new tower being announced practically daily, same goes for Atlanta, Nashville, Seattle, Chicago, etc.
    Last edited by 313WX; November-09-19 at 02:25 PM.

  17. #342

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    Saying "most other cities would kill for it" is quite the exaggeration.
    I don't think so. Setting aside New York, Chicago, Bay Area, Boston, Seattle or LA, maybe Philly since those are the only cities that get similar urban friendly large scale projects. Still all of them would very much want a Bedrock.

    Most cities don't need only one developmemt company because they have tens, if not hundreds of Bedrocks / Quickens / Gilberts working on various projects of this scale right now
    Most cities have development companies who's only goal is to please shareholders and not carry out a vision that's better for society in the long run. I cant think of a single developer that's doing exactly what Bedrock is and delivering the same quality.

    No US city has hundreds of hometown billionaire developers... That's just false. New York City has a bit over a hundred Billionaires in total.
    Last edited by Metro25; November-09-19 at 02:46 PM.

  18. #343

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    Thanks for getting my point, that being there are numerous developers like Bedrock working on large scale projects in most cities. So there's no reason for them to trade that for Detroit's situations.
    Your point is entirely unrelated to what I said. There is no single developer in Austin doing as much as Bedrock is in Detroit compare apples to apples not oranges. They would kill to have a Bedrock all to themselves. Detroit also has numerous developers and investors at this point.

    It sounds like you just dont want to admit that Bedrock is unique when they obviously are.
    Last edited by Metro25; November-09-19 at 02:55 PM.

  19. #344

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro25 View Post
    There is no single developer in Austin doing as much as Bedrock is in Detroit....
    That's a good thing.

    In fact, it's actually a lot more precarious to have one man/developer alone pursuing projects like the Hudson site or Monroe Block (what if Bedrock weny belly up, or Dan Gilbert suddenly died and his empire was acquired by a NYC-based venture capital firm?).

    So why would Austin or most other cities "kill for that?"

    Detroit also has numerous developers and investors at this point.
    With exception to that 1 involved in the project on the site of the Hammer-and-Nail building in Midtown, please name the other developers that are working on high rises in Detroit.

  20. #345

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    Quote Originally Posted by 313WX View Post
    With exception to that 1 involved in the project on the site of the Hammer-and-Nail building in Midtown, please name the other developers that are working on high rises in Detroit.
    Assuming you’re talking about The Mid, there’s...
    TCF Bank
    The Ilitches are working on the Eddystone currently
    The Park Avenue Building reno is still planned
    Ford with MCS
    Albert Kahn Building and Chroma in New Center

    There’s a few others I can’t think of off the top of my head, and several potential high rises to be officially announced in the next couple years (Opera House tower, potential high rise on the Joe Louis site)

    And there’s other huge projects underway that aren’t high rises like Gordie Howe International Bridge.

  21. #346

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    Why are you changing goal posts to high-rises? I said developers and investors. There's a lot going on and a lot of people involved.

    The point is Bedrock is an exceptional developer that any city would be drooling over themselves to have, period. Considering the cult Detroit-focused culture of the conglomerate's leadership group they're not going anywhere any time soon.

    If you disagree that's fine. But I'd rather this off topic argument not go on for any longer and obviously neither of us are changing our views.

  22. #347

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSortzi View Post
    Assuming you’re talking about The Mid, there’s...
    TCF Bank
    The Ilitches are working on the Eddystone currently
    The Park Avenue Building reno is still planned
    Ford with MCS
    Albert Kahn Building and Chroma in New Center
    Also Roxbury Group with the formerly West Elm hotel and Lee Plaza. They were also the ones who did Hammer and Nail and the Whitney Building so maybe they dont count...

    Lafayette West, which seems to be in limbo right now though. I also saw a new render of Brush+Watson on the architect's Instagram and it shows they've added a small high rise to the project.

  23. #348

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro25 View Post
    Also Roxbury Group with the formerly West Elm hotel and Lee Plaza. They were also the ones who did Hammer and Nail and the Whitney Building so maybe they dont count...

    Lafayette West, which seems to be in limbo right now though. I also saw a new render of Brush+Watson on the architect's Instagram and it shows they've added a small high rise to the project.
    Hey, nice find on the brush + Watson project. Looks good! Visited the architect’s instagram and saw the new renderings.

    Other successful cities like Austin, Seattle, Atlanta and so on don’t need a savior like Bedrock to resurrect them from the dead. Detroit still needs more players. While it’s true bedrock isn’t the only developer in town...without them?? Detroit’s development would be seriously stunted. You wouldn’t be seeing many if not ANY new high rises. And obviously skyscrapers aren’t the only form of development but nevertheless, they are a good sign that a city is doing well economically. Hopefully Detroit can get some new hotels built. And I’m not talking boutique. Lol. The Hudson’s is definitely a landmark project and let’s hope they land a big chain so this project can be the catalyst for more to come. I think the Monroe project will eventually happen. But with the recession around the corner I have my doubts if or when it’ll happen. It’d be sad to see it scrapped as that is greatly needed in downtown Detroit.

  24. #349

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSortzi View Post
    Assuming you’re talking about The Mid...
    Yes, that's the one.

  25. #350

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro25 View Post
    Why are you changing goal posts to high-rises?
    To be clear, the context that led to your sidebar comment (when you said "this is will obviously be built eventually") was the prospects of The Monroe Block development (a high-rise project) coming to fruition.
    Last edited by 313WX; November-09-19 at 06:53 PM.

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