Monroe Block Development

**EGrant** · May-17-19, 04:59 PM

How do projects in New York or Chicago handle this? I'd assume there isn't much room for staging there either

**401don** · May-17-19, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by EGrant

How do projects in New York or Chicago handle this? I'd assume there isn't much room for staging there either

Staging sounds like something the builder wants to save money from trucking things in & out as needed. There's a 70-80 storey building going up on every vacant corner in Toronto and not a spare foot for staging.

**Atticus** · May-17-19, 08:03 PM

Whether anyone has mentioned it or not, I still think the vetting of the concept for the second Monroe Block has slowed things from moving forward on block one.

They are obviously going to want to build one big underground parking garage that spans both blocks. To do so practically requires essentially tearing up and building the whole thing at once. The above ground portion of block two can wait a bit before construction, but it makes no sense to stage the parking garage portion either way.

To build the parking garage, you need to know two things:
1- You have all your approvals in place for the demolition of the theatre and other structures. Not sure if there is a group fighting the theater demo or not. And even if it is a done deal, those permits still take time.
2- You need to know where your foundations go, and where/how the load bearing columns should be constructed and placed in the garage. This is a much more difficult question for block two, which is still up in the air as far as how the above ground portion will look. But you still need to know that to build the garage, and subsequently block one.

I am sure the other reasons they have listed play a factor, but I would be willing to bet that one [[or both) of the two reasons I listed above is the raal
hold up.

**Worldsgreatest** · May-17-19, 08:07 PM

i think they really want a decent lease signed before the fully go in with this one.

**Gistok** · May-17-19, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Atticus

Not sure if there is a group fighting the theater demo or not.

I was part of the Preservation Wayne [[now Preservation Detroit) volunteers that cleaned out the rubble and fallen plasterwork out of the National Theater back circa 2002. The city provided us with 3 large dumpsters for the debris. We did this on a weekend. It was to help out the city to market the space for other development.

And then of course the Superbowl facade improvement grants were given out in 2005, and the National Theater facade [[only) was cleaned up.

I remember Kathryn Clarkson, the then Executive Director of Preservation Wayne mention that the interior was more than likely too far gone to recreate it in its' original appearance. She mentioned that it would be nice to save the facade and the Pewabic Tiles lining the ticket lobby.

The city had over a dozen years to market the building, but there were no takers [[except for the group that got it from the city and then did nothing with it, and the city had to sue to get it back). So I doubt that Preservation Detroit is going to give Dan Gilbert any grief over the demolition, as long as the facade is salvaged and reused for the Monroe development [[Gilbert is planning on doing so).

Detroit's preservation circles have pretty much been pleased with Gilberts downtown developments, if not downright overjoyed!

**bigboat** · June-12-19, 06:57 AM

Ground breaking was 6 months ago, have they started any construction yet on the Monroe Block development?

**DetroitRises** · June-12-19, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by bigboat

Ground breaking was 6 months ago, have they started any construction yet on the Monroe Block development?

It is delayed 3-6 months while they sort out logistics of building Monroe blocks at the same time Hudsons skyscraper, and Campus Martius building expansion.

**bigboat** · June-12-19, 08:07 AM

Sounds a little unusual afterall, we have the open spaces of the slumlord Chris Illitch as he owns a lot of open spaces that could be utilized on a friends only basis.

**DetroitRises** · June-12-19, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by bigboat

Sounds a little unusual afterall, we have the open spaces of the slumlord Chris Illitch as he owns a lot of open spaces that could be utilized on a friends only basis.

In bedrocks interview regarding Monroe Blocks delays it sounded like it had as much to do with the roads that would have to be closed around the site and using those same roads to transport materials for the other projects, than staging of materials.

**bigboat** · June-19-19, 05:09 AM

The roads issue has always been there, nothing has changed as far as road construction and they knew the situation going into this project. Chicago has many very tall skyscrapers under construction at the same time and their downtown is certainly more congested than Detroit's and they were able to figure it all out. 6 months just seems to be a long time for something that was supposed to be well planned and we all know Detroit really, really needs this.

**casscorridor** · June-19-19, 01:07 PM

There's also a labor shortage.

**Gistok** · June-19-19, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

There's also a labor shortage.

This is very true... seems to be in many places of the country.

**bigboat** · June-22-19, 03:50 AM

Reading the article in Curbed Detroit about apartment rentals the article is saying many renters in the downtown area now want out of living there and are looking to move out of the city. Not sure exactly why though, crime, taxes, limited shopping. I suspect some of it could be the rampant senseless gun violence that does not make anyone very comfortable.

**Seven&wyo** · June-22-19, 04:40 AM

That Curbed article was, at best, arbitrary.

**bigboat** · June-22-19, 05:56 AM

Most everything you read now is arbitrary and always someone's opinion.

**cmubryan** · June-22-19, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by bigboat

Reading the article in Curbed Detroit about apartment rentals the article is saying many renters in the downtown area now want out of living there and are looking to move out of the city. Not sure exactly why though, crime, taxes, limited shopping. I suspect some of it could be the rampant senseless gun violence that does not make anyone very comfortable.

The article actually stated “Detroit” [[not downtown Detroit) renters. Also the article didn’t state that renters “want out of living” in Detroit. It just stated that according to apartments.com, People living in Detroit are number 2 in the country in terms of looking to search for rentals out of state. This doesn’t mean much to me. Personally, I’m not looking to move out of Michigan but I am curious about other cities, so I search housing in those cities sometimes.

**Worldsgreatest** · June-22-19, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by bigboat

Reading the article in Curbed Detroit about apartment rentals the article is saying many renters in the downtown area now want out of living there and are looking to move out of the city. Not sure exactly why though, crime, taxes, limited shopping. I suspect some of it could be the rampant senseless gun violence that does not make anyone very comfortable.

That's not what it said. It was an article about bad data from an apartment website that applied to the whole region. It does not represent even a fraction of actual renters.

The city rental market is excellent and units remain in high demand.

**SammyS** · June-22-19, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Worldsgreatest

That's not what it said. It was an article about bad data from an apartment website that applied to the whole region. It does not represent even a fraction of actual renters.

The city rental market is excellent and units remain in high demand.

The rental market in and around Downtown is definitely HOT. Not so much on the sales side which is a little puzzling to me. I think new construction is hitting the existing housing market extra hard this year. That or it’s just slow to take off.

**ParisianLesion** · June-22-19, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by SammyS

The rental market in and around Downtown is definitely HOT. Not so much on the sales side which is a little puzzling to me. I think new construction is hitting the existing housing market extra hard this year. That or it’s just slow to take off.

From someone who just bought a house in the city I can tell you that the sales market is equally competitive. The only issue is lack of varied stock. Hence all the townhomes being built in the hottest neighborhoods and infill SFHs in the rest of the city.

**bigboat** · July-07-19, 06:03 PM

I don't want to seem negative, but, in my opinion something is not right with this project. Possibly, it is being scaled back now due to an over abundance of office space and limited demand for a new building.

**Gistok** · July-07-19, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by bigboat

I don't want to seem negative, but, in my opinion something is not right with this project. Possibly, it is being scaled back now due to an over abundance of office space and limited demand for a new building.

If we scroll back in this thread, it seems as though you are sounding somewhat negative. We already went through the issues of shortage of labor, and various other reasons.... patience dear sir... patience...

**southen** · July-08-19, 08:24 AM

When did we all of a sudden get an over abundance of office space?

**scarecrow** · July-08-19, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

If we scroll back in this thread, it seems as though you are sounding somewhat negative. We already went through the issues of shortage of labor, and various other reasons.... patience dear sir... patience...

Exactly. It takes time. I wouldn't expect the lot to broken up until spring. I work in FNB and I have a view across to see into the lot. I'll post photo updates as they happen.

But it's coming. I know they want to finish OCM first.

My only gripe is shutting down the sidewalks so early. I would have waited until construction actually started.

**stasu1213** · July-08-19, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by bigboat

Reading the article in Curbed Detroit about apartment rentals the article is saying many renters in the downtown area now want out of living there and are looking to move out of the city. Not sure exactly why though, crime, taxes, limited shopping. I suspect some of it could be the rampant senseless gun violence that does not make anyone very comfortable.

Maybe for the incentives they had received for living downtown had ran out and now they are forced to pay full market rate prices for the same spaces that they were living in

**Gistok** · July-08-19, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by scarecrow

Exactly. It takes time. I wouldn't expect the lot to broken up until spring. I work in FNB and I have a view across to see into the lot. I'll post photo updates as they happen.

But it's coming. I know they want to finish OCM first.

My only gripe is shutting down the sidewalks so early. I would have waited until construction actually started.

Thanks for the info scarecrow... I know that this project is going to be difficult. Just the logistics of tearing up Farmer St. between the 2 blocks must be a utilities nightmare. All of the underground work that has to be planned for in relocating gas, electric, water, sewage, etc. will be a costly nightmare. Designing the 2 block Monroe site was the easy part. Figuring out the relocation of utilities will be the hard part. I don't know how many stories underground that parking will be under that 2 block site... but I bet it would have been a LOT easier to plan for separate underground structures, although it would really impact the number of parking down there.

There are also variables involved with utilities that don't show up on Miss Dig System maps.

There is also the problem of finding historic artifacts on a site that may have been built upon for over 200 years. Not an easy task.