Wayne County Jail will be completed...sigh....

**Newdetroit** · November-19-16, 10:26 PM

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...18063026-story

**313WX** · November-19-16, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Newdetroit

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...18063026-story

This is a good thing. A ton of money has already been poured into it, so why not finish it. Besides, the jail / court system should remain in a central location and these workers [[many who are highly paid) do provide business to a lot of the establishments downtown.

With that being said, it would be awesome if Dan Gilbert could work with the Illitches to have the Soccer stadium he wants built behind the Fox Theatre.

[[I know, unlikely, but it's nice to dream any way)

**ekleezy** · November-20-16, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by Newdetroit

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...18063026-story

I don't think this is actually new information from what we've heard recently. It's just worded differently by fox. It sounds like Gilbert's team is still working on figuring out an alternative and Evans doesn't believe they'll be able to. I won't think of it as a lost cause until Gilbert says they aren't pursuing it anymore.

**Bham1982** · November-20-16, 02:26 PM

This topic is a perfect metaphor for why Metro Detroit has such crappy business districts.

There's apparently a consensus that having a soccer lawn/parking moat, with 15 annual matches, is apparently a better urban use than a dense building with hundreds of employees and thousands of visitors, with active 7 day traffic.

Somehow places like Manhattan have jails and seem to thrive. Not too many soccer fields in the middle of business districts, though. Both NYC-area MLS teams play well outside the city center.

**ekleezy** · November-20-16, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

This topic is a perfect metaphor for why Metro Detroit has such crappy business districts.

There's apparently a consensus that having a soccer lawn/parking moat, with 15 annual matches, is apparently a better urban use than a dense building with hundreds of employees and thousands of visitors, with active 7 day traffic.

Somehow places like Manhattan have jails and seem to thrive. Not too many soccer fields in the middle of business districts, though. Both NYC-area MLS teams play well outside the city center.

This really downplays what Gilbert and Gores want to do with the site.

Gilbert isn't the type of developer [[Illitch) to develop something and surround it with a sea of parking. He already shuttles employees downtown from the New Center and corktown areas. If he wanted to build more parking structures downtown he could do so.

Also, this wouldn't just be 15 events a year. It would be ~15 matches of a Detroit MLS team, but it would also have the possibility of hosting rugby, lacrosse, concerts, and other events. In Ann Arbor the past few years, the big house has hosted a match between a couple foreign teams and it sells out easily. Having a stadium built for soccer would allow the region to host more big events like that.

Worst case, this would literally only host 17 matches each year. More likely, though, it would be at least double that and would spur more development nearby.

**JBMcB** · November-20-16, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

This is a good thing. A ton of money has already been poured into it, so why not finish it.

https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/03...-cost-fallacy/

**emu steve** · November-21-16, 06:54 AM

What should be interesting:

DG took advantage of depressed prices and bought up tons of prime buildings in downtown cheap. Now this is NOT that case.

I still believe the county will sell if the 'offer is to good to pass up..."

Will Gilbert and Gores pay full price [[OR over pay) for maybe the most develop-able property [[other than the Hudson's site) in downtown? Is it in Gilbert's nature? Or does he simply decide that the best deals are 'buy low, sell high'?

**Scottathew** · November-21-16, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/03...-cost-fallacy/

Thank you. I felt my blood pressure go up when I read it.

Not that I am necessarily for or against the jail being there, but the reason of "we already put a ton of money into it" is not a valid one.

**dmike76** · November-21-16, 08:34 AM

Initially, I wasn't a proponent for the jail being finished until I found out that Gilbert wanted a soccer stadium there. I don't think that we need yet another sports stadium downtown and MLS is still LOSING money. What happens if that league fails? We now have an empty stadium sitting there. That seems even more risky if Gilbert tries to get some public funding for it[[which I'm totally against). I'm fine with Detroit having a MLS team, but I'd rather use an existing sports facility or build another one outside of downtown[[mexicantown/SW Detroit?) with private money.

**royce** · November-26-16, 07:48 AM

Wayne County officials are concerned about where to put the courts if DG buys the Frank Murphy Hall of Justice. Here's a thought. To free up the area for a soccer stadium and other entertainment related facilities, build the jail on the surface parking lot just north of the old Wayne County Building, which has courtrooms. Problem solved.

**313WX** · November-26-16, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by royce

Wayne County officials are concerned about where to put the courts if DG buys the Frank Murphy Hall of Justice. Here's a thought. To free up the area for a soccer stadium and other entertainment related facilities, build the jail on the surface parking lot just north of the old Wayne County Building, which has courtrooms. Problem solved.

Who's going to cough up the extra money to pay for that?

**Honky Tonk** · November-26-16, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Who's going to cough up the extra money to pay for that?

Just levy more taxes on Wayne County and Detroit residents, problem solved.

**Bobl** · November-26-16, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Just levy more taxes on Wayne County and Detroit residents, problem solved.

Absolutely, provided some way to subsidize a few billionaires is included.

**Jason** · November-26-16, 03:23 PM

Guys common, obviously the 70 story skyscraper Gilbert is planning for the Hudson's site that is mostly "residential", but also has offices, and a "civic" component is the replacement jail.

**detroitbob** · November-26-16, 03:29 PM

Wait until late December...DG & TG will pull off a "Hail Mary"

**erikd** · November-29-16, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by 48307

Thank you. I felt my blood pressure go up when I read it.

Not that I am necessarily for or against the jail being there, but the reason of "we already put a ton of money into it" is not a valid one.

The county has spent $150 million on it so far. If the choice is to spend another $100 million to finish it, OR scrap it and then spend another $250 million to start from scratch somewhere else, then the loss of that investment is a valid factor in the decision.

**detroitbob** · November-29-16, 02:09 AM

The project TG&DG want to do on that site is so big the 250,000.00 is a very small amount of the overall. I predict the funding will be in place and the county will end up in a win/win.

**313WX** · November-29-16, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by erikd

The county has spent $150 million on it so far. If the choice is to spend another $100 million to finish it, OR scrap it and then spend another $250 million to start from scratch somewhere else, then the loss of that investment is a valid factor in the decision.

^^^Didn't think it had to be broken down that way.

But I guess I was wrong.

**313WX** · November-29-16, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by detroitbob

The project TG&DG want to do on that site is so big the 250,000.00 is a very small amount of the overall. I predict the funding will be in place and the county will end up in a win/win.

There's no shortage of vacant land in other parts of downtown Detroit [[if that's all he wants). Why is the county jail site so desired?

**mikeg19** · November-29-16, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

There's no shortage of vacant land in other parts of downtown Detroit [[if that's all he wants). Why is the county jail site so desired?

I think that's pretty simple. He has labeled that plot of land as the "Gateway to Downtown" from the east. Or more importantly, the Gateway to Gilbertland. He wants to keep his holdings close to the heart of his operation in Campus Martius, plus it's a stones throw away from his Casino where people could pour out of his soccer stadium and dump a chunk of change at his casino after.