Here's another novel idea: Move federal jobs from NYC to Detroit

[davewindsor]

I hear this theme of let's tear down vacant buildings again and again. These are buildings that once made Detroit great. You've probably seen this video a hundred times on the building of the RenCentre in the mid-70s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6RlUsi_-ZA

Some of the facts that stick out in my mind include Detroit being called the Motor City, but only 13% of the workforce is employeed in the auto industry. Most are employeed in a host of other areas. They said this back in mid-70s that Detroit has the 4th largest financial centre in the world. Today, where is Detroit? We have 48 vacant buildings in downtown. With one skyscraper getting knocked down after another, it'll never be great again. Yet, I read articles like this http://www.observer.com/2008/most-ex...r-listed-150-m where condos on Central Park West in Manhattan are listing for $150million.

$150million for one condo.

Why isn't Detroit positioning itself for the head office market anymore? Why aren't we doing more to try to recruit these Manhattan offices to downtown Detroit? You move a major head office with 10,000 employees in Manhattan to Detroit and you've filled up all these vacant buildings in downtown Detroit. The downtown market would improve and the Lafayette would make sense to renovate. New York City has what, 20 million people? NYC has tonnes of old office buildings, why can't we keep ours? If we can't get a major head office.down here, why can't the federal government step in and move 10,000 federal jobs from Manhattan to Downtown Detroit? Have the CIA move into 1001 Woodward or the Whitney?. Have the Secret Service, FBI, IRS and a whole host of other government employees move into these other vacant downtown buildings or even some of the ones that are half vacant.. If condos are listing for up to $150million in NYC, they don't need all those federal government.jobs; they have more than enough private sector jobs and private money to sustain themselves. Why isn't Obama moving those federal government jobs to depressed cities that still have the infrastructure to be great like downtown Detroit? I don't get it. Stimulus money for the destruction of downtown office buildings instead of moving federal government jobs from cities that don't need them to cities that desperately do?. What gives? Mayor Bing, get on that phone and call up the White House every day. Sell the city to the President. Sell him on the federal tax dollar savings from a firesale real estate market vs.outrageously high Manhattan real estate prices. Convince him to move those federal jobs to Detroit.

[Detroit500]

It makes lots of sense, but why try to bring jobs in the tens of thousands when you can try to bring them in the tens.

[Patrick]

why can't the federal government step in and move 10,000 federal jobs from Manhattan to Downtown Detroit?

That would cost the taxpayers untold millions in relocation expenses as well as wasted time and manpower. Thousands of New Yorkers simply woudn't leave NYC and SE Michigan would have to fill those open jobs. You can bet your ass that it would be suburban folks that would be filling the mostly professional-level jobs and not Detroiters.

[crawford]

Um, metro NYC has one of the lower proportions of federal jobs in the nation.

Why would you think federal jobs are concentrated in NYC? Sure, there are plenty of federal jobs there, but there are plenty of federal jobs in metro Detroit too [[I bet a higher proportion). The Feds like to locate federal jobs in cheaper areas.

And what do federal jobs have to do with $150 million apartments? The type of people considering such a purchase aren't exactly government paper-pushers.

You sure you don't mean Washington, DC, or maybe Western state with lots of federal land management [[say Wyoming)? Or maybe a military town down South? Those are the types of places with lots of government-subsidized jobs [[again, they are in places like NYC too, but not in the same proportion).

[crawford]

They said this back in mid-70s that Detroit has the 4th largest financial centre in the world.

You sure about this?

4th largest on earth?

It wasn't 4th largest in the U.S. back in the 70's. You would rank Detroit as a bigger financial center than Chicago, LA, SF or Boston [[I'm assuming you wouldn't rank it above NYC)?

[davewindsor]

That would cost the taxpayers untold millions in relocation expenses as well as wasted time and manpower. Thousands of New Yorkers simply woudn't leave NYC and SE Michigan would have to fill those open jobs. You can bet your ass that it would be suburban folks that would be filling the mostly professional-level jobs and not Detroiters.

True, but those are one-time costs, whereas rent paid is ongoing and I'm sure a 10 year-lease signed for reduced rent would more than cover it. Maybe suburban folks would take those jobs, maybe not. They'd be working out of downtown. They're gonna have to spend on food, rent and other things. It would only help the downtown market in a big way.

Um, metro NYC has one of the lower proportions of federal jobs in the nation.

Why would you think federal jobs are concentrated in NYC? Sure, there are plenty of federal jobs there, but there are plenty of federal jobs in metro Detroit too [[I bet a higher proportion). The Feds like to locate federal jobs in cheaper areas.

And what do federal jobs have to do with $150 million apartments? The type of people considering such a purchase aren't exactly government paper-pushers.

You sure you don't mean Washington, DC, or maybe Western state with lots of federal land management [[say Wyoming)? Or maybe a military town down South? Those are the types of places with lots of government-subsidized jobs [[again, they are in places like NYC too, but not in the same proportion).

Maybe it is in lower proportion in NY. I don't think so, but maybe you're right.. Do you care to back it up with stats since your more knowledgeable on your stats instead of just giving me an opinion? I couldn't google those facts.
Even if it were though, if the proportion is 25% smaller than Detroit, that's still a smaller proportion of the total population, which is still many times more than Detroit's total numbers. Do feds like to locate in cheaper areas? What are the facts on that? Does Detroit even have the US Secret Service? Are there federal agencies that NY has that Detroit doesn't? So far all I've gotten is an opinion. Why should I trust it and accept Detroit's status quo as if in there's no hope whatsoever for all these vacant downtown office buildings and just accept that these buildings will soon face the wrecking ball because the government should not step in and help out with the lack of demand by leasing them.

The $150million condo market was thrown out there to show a contrast. The highest priced condo in Detroit is a penthouse in the BC and you probably could get for under a million. Yet, land is so valuable in Manhattan. What do office rents go for in Manhattan? WTC 7 was located in lower Manhattan and was all occupied by federal employees. How much is the cheapest condo in Manhattan? Do you think when a condo sells for $150million in Manhattan, it doesn't push up the price of the cheapest condos in Manhattan? Of course, Federal employees don't live in $150million condos in Manhattan, but they do need to live somewhere in Manhattan and those sales are pushing the cost of living expenses for those Federal employees up, which means they're gonna need to be paid more to cover that. If money is flying around like that in Manhattan, that city doesn't need all those federal government jobs. Send them to Detroit.

No, I mean NYC. They definitely don't need those federal jobs like Detroit does.

You sure about this?

4th largest on earth?

It wasn't 4th largest in the U.S. back in the 70's. You would rank Detroit as a bigger financial center than Chicago, LA, SF or Boston [[I'm assuming you wouldn't rank it above NYC)?

No, I'm not sure of this fact. I was surprised too. But,. that's what the video said and I quoted it. They must have based it on something. If you're saying the video is bs, quote me from your authority with it's statistical rankings. Don't just say you think without giving me a source. I know from historical books talking about the 1920s and 30s I kept running across statements that Detroit was competing with Chicago for second place to NY as a major financial centre. Maybe that powerful financial industry continued until the mid-70s and then they left the city.

[iheartthed]

It would make more sense for Detroit to take federal jobs from Chicago. The federal government usually establishes regional centers, and Chicago would be the regional head for the midwest. Any federal office based in New York, would probably be intended to service the northeast.

As for the side discussion, Detroit had a fairly large stock exchange so it's not unbelievable that it was regarded as a large financial center at one point. I don't think the Boston or SF stock exchanges were national exchanges like the Detroit Stock Exchange, since neither city ever became a large industrial center on the order of what Detroit used to be.

[ejames01]

Why would the purpose of that be?

[davewindsor]

It would make more sense for Detroit to take federal jobs from Chicago. The federal government usually establishes regional centers, and Chicago would be the regional head for the midwest. Any federal office based in New York, would probably be intended to service the northeast.

As for the side discussion, Detroit had a fairly large stock exchange so it's not unbelievable that it was regarded as a large financial center at one point. I don't think the Boston or SF stock exchanges were national exchanges like the Detroit Stock Exchange, since neither city ever became a large industrial center on the order of what Detroit used to be.

I like that idea of moving Chicago jobs to Detroit too.

You're right about the Detroit Stock Exchange. It lasted from 1907 to 1976 http://www.detroitstockexchange.com/dse_org.htm It closed around the time that that short video of Detroit was made.

[ejames01]

While we are at it, let's make Detroit the Capitol of the United States.

I like that idea of moving Chicago jobs to Detroit too.

You're right about the Detroit Stock Exchange. It lasted from 1907 to 1976 http://www.detroitstockexchange.com/dse_org.htm It closed around the time that that short video of Detroit was made.

[mwilbert]

It would make a lot of sense to move some federal jobs out of metropolitan DC into other parts of the country. And if some of those jobs were to be moved into Detroit, it is certain that the vast majority of them would be taken by suburbanites--the suburbs do make up more than 80% of the region's population, and a higher percentage of the population with college degrees.

However thinking that somehow this still wouldn't be good for Detroit is nuts. It would provide income tax revenue, people who would potentially spend money in town--at least lunch--and fill up space. And some of those people would probably decide to live in the city to be close to their jobs. How this wouldn't be good is unclear to me.

[Russix]

In fact, there are more workers in Detroit's non-automotive factories than there are in all the factories in Texas. Moreover, there are only 12 states in the U.S. wherein total manufacturing equals or exceeds Detroit's non-automotive figure.

Interesting