Gratiot/Randolph Being Redesigned

**dtowncitylover** · November-01-16, 01:34 PM

Interesting reconfiguration by the city. It is much needed as that whole strip down to Cadillac Square is a pedestrian nightmare, no thanks to some lights and signals not working.

http://detroit.curbed.com/2016/11/1/...s-reconfigured

**Scottathew** · November-01-16, 02:02 PM

A crosswalk on the northwest side of Randolph and Monroe, thanks goodness. Right now to be safe I have to cross the street THREE TIMES instead of just once to go to B-Dubs.

**1953** · November-01-16, 02:02 PM

I find the redesign uninspired, but wish it well.

1953

**casscorridor** · November-01-16, 02:56 PM

this is an example of a small but effective change that can make a big impact

streets in urban areas should prioritize pedestrians over cars where possible. cutting of streets to auto traffic, while allowing for new pedestrians routes can be very effective in achieving a goal of improved pedestrian accessibility.

while pedestrian mall concepts may of failed in the past in Detroit and other US cities, there are situations where cutting of auto traffic can be effective, if done strategically.

**royce** · November-02-16, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by 48307

A crosswalk on the northwest side of Randolph and Monroe, thanks goodness. Right now to be safe I have to cross the street THREE TIMES instead of just once to go to B-Dubs.

There's a simple reason why there is not a northwest side crosswalk: cars turning left off of Monroe would have to wait for pedestrians crossing, slowing up the rush-hour traffic leaving downtown to get to Gratiot. Personally, the narrowing of the street in the rendering/video seems a bit extreme. Those making that left off of Monroe would have to make that left at an extreme angle with this proposed redesign. Also, I'm not sure creating this Winter Garden plaza is necessary given the fact that that intersection will still be experiencing heavy traffic during rush hour and game days. Who really wants to eat on the plaza when the Gratiot bus is passing by every 15 minutes?

Now, extending the sidewalk out about a lane would improve the pedestrian traffic flow for game days, but extending beyond a lane may be problematic. Well, I guess they [[MDOT and city planners ) will have to try it out first to see how wrong this design will be before they put it back in 20 years. Remember the Washington Boulevard, red monkey bars, pedestrian mall design. Everybody just loved that design, right?

**stasu1213** · November-02-16, 07:46 PM

There was once a crosswalk at the northwestern corner. The change is very need

**jmarie** · November-02-16, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by royce

There's a simple reason why there is not a northwest side crosswalk: cars turning left off of Monroe would have to wait for pedestrians crossing, slowing up the rush-hour traffic leaving downtown to get to Gratiot.

Heaven forbid we slow down rush hour traffic in lieu of pedestrians' safety and convenience.

Since I walk as much, or more, around town than I drive, I can sacrifice my own time when driving in exchange for safety while walking.
Once the crosswalk is installed, hopefully people pay attention to it.... [[Am I the only one that dodges traffic running red lights on a regular basis? Drives me crazy!)

**Jason** · November-02-16, 09:33 PM

If they acquired the small parking lot on the corner they could make it a fully normal intersection. They could also make *all* of Gratiot/State two way.

I'm glad they're doing this kind of thing because there are so many messed up intersections, especially downtown. Next up they can do Randolph/Cadillac Square/Congress.

**ABetterDetroit** · November-02-16, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by jmarie

Heaven forbid we slow down rush hour traffic in lieu of pedestrians' safety and convenience.

Since I walk as much, or more, around town than I drive, I can sacrifice my own time when driving in exchange for safety while walking.
Once the crosswalk is installed, hopefully people pay attention to it.... [[Am I the only one that dodges traffic running red lights on a regular basis? Drives me crazy!)

No your not.

As pedestrians and traffic have increased significantly more enforcement is needed on both sides. Running reds and jaywalking in traffic is making dangerous confrontations downtown much more frequent. Walking is when you really see the stupidity.

**Scottathew** · November-03-16, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

No your not.

As pedestrians and traffic have increased significantly more enforcement is needed on both sides. Running reds and jaywalking in traffic is making dangerous confrontations downtown much more frequent. Walking is when you really see the stupidity.

Just wait until we fully adopt automated cars and pedestrians can walk out into the middle of any road and all the cars will automatically stop. There will be a much greater need for enforcement of jaywalking and pedestrians waiting for the right of way.

**bust** · November-03-16, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by 48307

Just wait until we fully adopt automated cars and pedestrians can walk out into the middle of any road and all the cars will automatically stop...

Maybe not...

http://jalopnik.com/now-mercedes-say...ped-1787890432

**Scottathew** · November-03-16, 11:23 PM

Regardless of safety prioritization, most cars will be able to safely stop when a pedestrian enters a street. Pedestrians knowing that these automated cars will stop for them, will then just walk out into the middle of the street.

This will be more of a problem in densely populated areas with foot traffic. Sprawlburbs should be less effected, but south of 14 Mile and throughout Detroit where the cities are more walkable, they will be affected.

Originally Posted by bust

Maybe not...

http://jalopnik.com/now-mercedes-say...ped-1787890432

**bust** · November-03-16, 11:38 PM

Good points. I wasn't being entirely serious. I've seen jaywalkers cuss out drivers for waiting too long before stopping for them in Brooklyn. I was also once hit by a car when crossing the street in a crosswalk with a walk sign. It's an interesting philosophical question how to code ethics into algorithms. E.g., does the pedestrian lose points in the calculation if they're jaywalking?

**Scottathew** · November-04-16, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by bust

E.g., does the pedestrian lose points in the calculation if they're jaywalking?

That is an interesting proposition!

**erikd** · November-05-16, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

No your not.

As pedestrians and traffic have increased significantly more enforcement is needed on both sides. Running reds and jaywalking in traffic is making dangerous confrontations downtown much more frequent. Walking is when you really see the stupidity.

Pedestrians mixing with traffic isn't a problem if the cars aren't traveling at high speeds. In areas with heavy pedestrian traffic, [[such as downtowns) vehicle speeds should be slowed to a safe level. Cars should not be going 35+ in the middle of downtown.

**royce** · November-06-16, 02:47 AM

"Early next month" is now. I was just downtown Saturday and the reconfiguration is already set into place. I have to admit it's not as bad as I thought it would be. The left turn off of Monroe isn't as extreme as I thought it would be. However, the northwest crosswalk is one directly in front of the old Serman's store. No new crosswalk was added at Monroe even though the rendering shows one, but in the video there isn't one. That still would be a bad place for a pedestrian walkway.