2017 Detroit Tigers

**ABetterDetroit** · October-05-16, 08:53 AM

The first piece of the puzzle is in place. Brad Ausmus will return as Manager.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/ml...gers/91530886/

**emu steve** · October-05-16, 09:53 AM

I like it. Tigers aren't far from being a pretty good team.

Less injuries. Maybe one more arm in the 'pen.

That alone might be enough to get to 90 wins next season.

**401don** · October-05-16, 12:57 PM

Avila and Ausmus will sink or swim as a package next year. It won't be easy but Avila has to improve the team while cutting payroll. I think you'll be surprised at the number of changes this offseason - and it won't be free agent signings. It will be through trades.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · October-06-16, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

Avila and Ausmus will sink or swim as a package next year. It won't be easy but Avila has to improve the team while cutting payroll. I think you'll be surprised at the number of changes this offseason - and it won't be free agent signings. It will be through trades.

The need to get more athletic. Team speed needs to improve.

**emu steve** · October-06-16, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

The need to get more athletic. Team speed needs to improve.

Agree!!

Tigers need to be able to manufacture runs.

Need an IF or OF with some real speed ala Maybin or Iglesias. Need to be able to pinch run for V-Mart and Miggy late is the game.

**401don** · October-06-16, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Agree!!

Tigers need to be able to manufacture runs.

Need an IF or OF with some real speed ala Maybin or Iglesias. Need to be able to pinch run for V-Mart and Miggy late is the game.

Problem is those guys are hard to find. If a team has a young, athletic outfielder who can handle the bat he is prior to his free agent years and teams won't give them up. Jays and Orioles are in the same boat. Jays did not have one guy hit .300 this year and there offense was terrible the 2nd half. Orioles had 13 stolen bases as a team. Indians and Red Sox have the guys you need. The problem is made worse of course by Comerica Park.

**Bobl** · October-06-16, 10:38 AM

Whatever happened to Reno Bertoia?

**Cincinnati_Kid** · October-06-16, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Agree!!

Tigers need to be able to manufacture runs.

Need an IF or OF with some real speed ala Maybin or Iglesias. Need to be able to pinch run for V-Mart and Miggy late is the game.

You're correct.. The starting pitching is set, with Fulmer, Boyd and Norris, to assist JV and Zim. They need to trade or DFA Pelfrey and Sanchez, and add some more bullpen options, and strengthen the bench. Aybar and Romine are good bench options and maybe Salty, and should be retained. Winter meetings should be interesting, this is where Dombrowski really shined, jury's still out on Avila. But a lot depends if Illitch is willing to open the checkbook again. He may decide to scale back, or maybe some of the kid's step up, like Moya, Jones, Collins etc.. and can contribute more next season.

**emu steve** · October-06-16, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

You're correct.. The starting pitching is set, with Fulmer, Boyd and Norris, to assist JV and Zim. They need to trade or DFA Pelfrey and Sanchez, and add some more bullpen options, and strengthen the bench. Aybar and Romine are good bench options and maybe Salty, and should be retained. Winter meetings should be interesting, this is where Dombrowski really shined, jury's still out on Avila. But a lot depends if Illitch is willing to open the checkbook again. He may decide to scale back, or maybe some of the kid's step up, like Moya, Jones, Collins etc.. and can contribute more next season.

Sounds crazy but Lowe might be a key [[as well as getting a utility player with blazing speed).

Two big disappoints were Zimmerman and Lowe.

Zimmerman's issues, after a great start, appear to have been caused by multiple injuries and trying to come back from them.

Lowe's season was completely unexplainable. Can't point to anything specific.

Was there some reason, known only to Lowe and God, for his 2016 season?

IF both come back to be as good as they were, we'll be much better.

**401don** · October-06-16, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Sounds crazy but Lowe might be a key [[as well as getting a utility player with blazing speed).

Two big disappoints were Zimmerman and Lowe.

Zimmerman's issues, after a great start, appear to have been caused by multiple injuries and trying to come back from them.

Lowe's season was completely unexplainable. Can't point to anything specific.

Was there some reason, known only to Lowe and God, for his 2016 season?

IF both come back to be as good as they were, we'll be much better.

Nothing unexpected about Lowe's season. It was just another stupid signing by the Tigers. He is 33 yrs. old and pitched all of 11 & 7 innings in 2013 and 14. He has one good year where he is overused after coming off injuries and the Tigers give this mediocre middle reliever 2 yrs./$8 million. They deserve exactly what they got.

**emu steve** · November-03-16, 06:03 PM

Hope there isn't a thread started already which I missed.

I hope the Tigers know what they are doing...

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/ti...s-first-trade/

**EGrant** · November-03-16, 06:13 PM

I don't think anyone is safe, to be honest. Miggy, JV, anyone. Would not be surprised if the team went into rebuilding mode, especially with these aging stars on huge contracts.

**emu steve** · November-03-16, 06:27 PM

I think the Tigers unloaded a 9M contract for an interesting pitching prospect.

My question is who is ready to play CF?

**401don** · November-03-16, 08:33 PM

Maybin is starting the downside of his career and has never been able to stay healthy enough to play a full schedule. Also, as much as he was an offensive spark, 2016 may have been a career year and his defense was weak for the spacious center at Comerica. He would have made an ideal 4th outfielder [[similar to why they should have kept Rajai Davis) but he's too expensive for that, especially with the new payroll direction. Still, I enjoyed watching him play. He really gave the team a lift when he came back in May and this first trade makes the team weaker in 2017.

**jmarie** · November-03-16, 10:10 PM

Already things don't make sense. I thought they wanted to get younger and cheaper, yet we are keeping K-Rod?! He should have been at the top of the get rid of list.

**Lowell** · November-03-16, 10:11 PM

I would like to have seen Maybin stay around. When he played they won. He had changed his game to a get on and score game and was part of the speed they needed. The injuries were accidents, nothing indicative of long term. Wonder if Tigers still have hope for Anthony Gose [Went?]. He went in a big downward spiral after being cut last year.

They guy the got in the Maybin trade was ERA 4.30 in 111 innings of double A with 57 walks. Sounds more like a throw in. http://www.baseball-reference.com/re...d=alcant000alf

**ABetterDetroit** · November-04-16, 06:37 AM

Moving Maybin for a prospect is a sure sign of a payroll cut. It's Avilas team now, the Dombrowski era is officially gone.

**TheUsualSuspect** · November-04-16, 08:01 AM

I liked what Cameron Maybin brought to the team. Speed, athleticism and a swagger that I think they are going to miss. I hadn't realized that he was a below-average fielding centerfielder, but this was pointed out multiple times in media reports.

That said, I understand the need to cut the payroll and stir the pot. This was a convenient and obvious place to start, and certainly there is more to come. JD will likely go in trade and perhaps Ian Kinsler too.

If Brad couldn't win with THOSE guys, maybe he will do better with a crop of younger less established players [[rolling my eyes).

Gonna be some lean times down at the ballpark for the next few summers while this team turns over.

It had to happen I suppose. It wasn't working with the guys they had.

**jiminnm** · November-04-16, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Bobl

Whatever happened to Reno Bertoia?

He, Frank Bolling and Gail Harris are still playing on the cloud diamond.

**401don** · November-04-16, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by TheUsualSuspect

I liked what Cameron Maybin brought to the team. Speed, athleticism and a swagger that I think they are going to miss. I hadn't realized that he was a below-average fielding centerfielder, but this was pointed out multiple times in media reports.

That said, I understand the need to cut the payroll and stir the pot. This was a convenient and obvious place to start, and certainly there is more to come. JD will likely go in trade and perhaps Ian Kinsler too.

If Brad couldn't win with THOSE guys, maybe he will do better with a crop of younger less established players [[rolling my eyes).

Gonna be some lean times down at the ballpark for the next few summers while this team turns over.

It had to happen I suppose. It wasn't working with the guys they had.

I wouldn't say lean times, at least not compared to a complete rebuild. As long as you have starting pitching you can compete. The lineup will still have some middle of the order power and a couple of younger, athletic guys surrounding them will only help. The bullpen has been a crapshoot and will stay that way until they develop a couple of their own young power guys. If they move Kinsler they better get a good return because he is the one guy they will really miss on both sides of the ball.

**emu steve** · November-04-16, 11:14 AM

Maybe we should have been following the Arizona Fall League. Looks like the Tigs will depend on Jones, Jimenez, maybe help in a year from the new pitcher, our young OF, Stewart, etc.

Our farm system needs to produce MLB prospects in a hurry.

No longer do we treat talent needs like going to the grocery store and buy what we need at inflated prices.

Our cupboard is fairly empty and we don't have much money in the bank account, so as to speak.

**Mackinaw** · November-04-16, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Moving Maybin for a prospect is a sure sign of a payroll cut. It's Avilas team now, the Dombrowski era is officially gone.

Well, it is a payroll cut, per se: if Jacoby Jones is our new CF, we just saved 8.4 million next year. The question is does this signal additional cuts, or is the team content with coming in just below the luxury tax.

This team missed the playoffs by 1.5 games following large injury woes [[Zimm, Castellanos, JD). They were a few bad relief outings away from winning the division. I do think coaching and attitudes [[particularly re hitting and baserunning approaches) affirmatively held them back, too, but I guess were stuck with Ausmus, who was not bad, and we are getting a new [[old) batting coach. I hope they took notes about how CLE and CHI were playing the game this past month.

My point being, do not shed the veteran core, do not even move JD. With marginally better luck re injuries, a more mature [[but aggressive) coaching approach, and a continued usage of young sparkplugs [[3/5 of our rotation plus Jacoby Jones and Iglesias), you will gain 3-5 games next year.

Rotation: Verlander, Fulmer, Zimmerman, Norris, Boyd. That's a rock solid formation. Do not blow it. Get Verlander his ring.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · November-06-16, 12:43 PM

^^ All good points, but I think they are going to shed more payroll, possibly even trade one of their high priced pieces, [[ ie...Upton, JD, who's due a extension I believe, or others) They need to get younger, more athletic and add speed to their lineup.

**softailrider** · November-06-16, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

Well, it is a payroll cut, per se: if Jacoby Jones is our new CF, we just saved 8.4 million next year. The question is does this signal additional cuts, or is the team content with coming in just below the luxury tax.

This team missed the playoffs by 1.5 games following large injury woes [[Zimm, Castellanos, JD). They were a few bad relief outings away from winning the division. I do think coaching and attitudes [[particularly re hitting and baserunning approaches) affirmatively held them back, too, but I guess were stuck with Ausmus, who was not bad, and we are getting a new [[old) batting coach. I hope they took notes about how CLE and CHI were playing the game this past month.

My point being, do not shed the veteran core, do not even move JD. With marginally better luck re injuries, a more mature [[but aggressive) coaching approach, and a continued usage of young sparkplugs [[3/5 of our rotation plus Jacoby Jones and Iglesias), you will gain 3-5 games next year.

Rotation: Verlander, Fulmer, Zimmerman, Norris, Boyd. That's a rock solid formation. Do not blow it. Get Verlander his ring.

I agree with all of the above. I still think they could use another middle of the lineup thumper. Those too frequent power outages last season were maddening.

**401don** · November-07-16, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

I agree with all of the above. I still think they could use another middle of the lineup thumper. Those too frequent power outages last season were maddening.

Last thing we need is a "thumper". We need guys with speed, athleticism, on-base percentage and good defense. I think they will try to trade either Upton [[in the tradition of way overpaying and then dumping the guy after a year - see Prince Fielder) or JD Martinez. You can't let JD hit free agency and not get a return. If they move a couple of big contracts they may try to sign JD long-term.