Illitch to build another Parking Garage, this time at Park/Henry

[Atticus]

Illitch to build yet another parking garage at the southwest corner of Park at Henry streets. Obviously this new garage is related to the new arena development, and the DDA is allowing him to use the $24.4m cost of this garage toward the "additional development" requirements.

This garage will be in addition to the large primary arena garage going up along Clifford Street, and the new garage being constructed north of Comerica Park along I-75.

In classic bait and switch fashion, the garage is sold with the promise of an adjacent 7-story office/residential building that ***could*** get built in the future.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...rena/91328664/

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

So 1/8 of the "additional development" is another parking garage for his own needs, as opposed to real development. Who's surprised? I'd give the related structure that they are not committed to building maybe a 5% chance of being built.

[313WX]

There wasn't anything spectacular on that land any way other than a cab company.

As long as it has a street wall, the garage will actually be a plus.

[emu steve]

Kind of a non-story, story.

We have discussed this site as the future home of a parking garage for some time.

The discussion has always been that along Henry would be an office building, hotel, parking garage, etc.

Two garages: Behind LCA 1,100 spaces. This one 500.

So those two garages = 1,600 parking spaces more than available today.

The article indicates that the other new garage near Comerica will have 900 additional parking spaces.

[detmsp]

The Detroit Downtown Development Authority has allowed the $24-million garage as well as Little Caesars coming $150-million headquarters building in downtown to count toward the spin-off spending requirement. Even though the nine-story pizza headquarters won't directly neighbor Little Caesars Arena, but instead be across the freeway near the Fox Theatre, it is still considered inside the district's boundaries.

So Illitch has committed to $200 million in investment around the arena to create "the district". And with building a parking deck for the arena, an HQ for his company on the other side of the highway, he's already 87% of the way there! Also the $200 million doesn't have to come from him, it's just any investment made by anyone in "the district". So add a few sports bars and BAM! $200 million! District created! Too bad it's a F-ing parking deck, and a building that's not even really nearby.

I was skeptical of Illitch's district plan, but now I'm certain it was a bunch of BS to get public money.

[Wesley Mouch]

...I was skeptical of Illitch's district plan, but now I'm certain it was a bunch of BS to get public money.

Once municipalities get into the game of subsidizing development, you should not be surprised when development adapts itself to the program's requirements.

We have no business funding any of this.

[Detroit Raver]

Wasn't entirely surprised. The Illitch family has done this before and are doing it again. Who knows when and if those renderings for all those neighborhoods in the "District Detroit" will come to fruition?

I guess all those empty lots behind the Fox and around bookies will remain empty, and the United Artists Building will see its days numbered soon too. Thank God Dan is keeping us optimistic that Bedrock's developments could maybe press the Illitches to follow suit too.

[ekleezy]

How does the number of parking spaces for LCA compare to Joe Louis? Joe Louis has 3000 parking spaces and it's easily accessible by the people mover so people park in Greek town and other areas. Does the amount of parking spaces for LCA compare to that now and can it lead to less demand for all of Illitch's parking lots?

[emu steve]

Guys, total non issue.

That 200M will be exceeded anyway you slice or dice it. With or without parking decks. Ilitch and others or Ilitch himself.

Once again, the LC headquarters alone will be a good share of 200M.

"The Detroit Downtown Development Authority has allowed the $24-million garage as well as Little Caesars coming $150-million headquarters building in downtown to count toward the spin-off spending requirement. "

[Atticus]

Guys, total non issue.

That 200M will be exceeded anyway you slice or dice it. With or without parking decks. Ilitch and others or Ilitch himself.

Once again, the LC headquarters alone will be a good share of 200M.

"The Detroit Downtown Development Authority has allowed the $24-million garage as well as Little Caesars coming $150-million headquarters building in downtown to count toward the spin-off spending requirement. "

Then why market and "sell it PR wise" with the pretty renderings of the building in front? Why not just create a rendering of just the garage,?.... because as we know, that is all that will get built.

Truthfully, I don't have a problem with the garage getting built there. It make sense, I just hate the deception and taxpayer reward. But it is the constant deception and bait and switch marketing I take issue with. And the City/DDA doesn't have a backbone to stand up to it, and keep Illitch honest.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Guys, total non issue.

That 200M will be exceeded anyway you slice or dice it. With or without parking decks. Ilitch and others or Ilitch himself.

Once again, the LC headquarters alone will be a good share of 200M.

"The Detroit Downtown Development Authority has allowed the $24-million garage as well as Little Caesars coming $150-million headquarters building in downtown to count toward the spin-off spending requirement. "

Actually, you just made the point some of the rest of us are. The headquarters building [[which seems to have a strangely inflated price tag) plus the new garage exhaust almost all of his "commitment" and serve only himself. So welcome to the "District". Just don't expect Illitch to do anything more.

[emu steve]

Actually, you just made the point some of the rest of us are. The headquarters building [[which seems to have a strangely inflated price tag) plus the new garage exhaust almost all of his "commitment" and serve only himself. So welcome to the "District". Just don't expect Illitch to do anything more.

Yeah, but only if one take the most dire of predictions of the future developments.

One has LC headquarters, one has this parking garage, one has the residences across from Comerica, one almost certainly has a hotel and office building on Henry, etc. for starters.

That alone might be say 350 - 400M so 200M is a pretty low bar to cross.

It might seem to me that the Ilitches, as smart business folks, agreed to a threshold THEY could meet THEMSELVES, i.e., not count on anyone else's participation in building an office building, hotel, etc. or unplanned hoped for future developments to meet some total.

[bust]

It's crazy parking decks required by the arena even count as contributing toward the glorious district their b.s. PR enticed us to believe they'd create.

http://www.districtdetroit.com/neigh...s-park-village

If we ever see "independent shops, local markets and galleries", "a relaxed atmosphere with a free-spirited attitude", a "close-knit community", "cafe start-ups" [[??), "comfortable and casual surroundings", "informal get-togethers", "pickup softball", and "events from poetry slams to local garage bands to full-out launch parties" their impetus is not going to be an arena, a loading dock, and parking decks.

[emu steve]

It's crazy parking decks required by the arena even count as contributing toward the glorious district their b.s. PR enticed us to believe they'd create.

http://www.districtdetroit.com/neigh...s-park-village

If we ever see "independent shops, local markets and galleries", "a relaxed atmosphere with a free-spirited attitude", a "close-knit community", "cafe start-ups" [[??), "comfortable and casual surroundings", "informal get-togethers", "pickup softball", and "events from poetry slams to local garage bands to full-out launch parties" their impetus is not going to be an arena, a loading dock, and parking decks.

You guys are lawyering or filibustering this to death.

Maybe we can come up with an equation to satisfy a subset of Detroityes posters:

Total District Detroit spending - arena spending - parking garages - minus spending by not associated to Ilitiches companies >= 200M

Is this the criteria to satisfy posters here? That is the LEAST favorable criteria to the Ilitches I could come up with.

P.S. does the 35 - 40M for the Ilitch School of Business building count? It is his money.

And he still has what 5 years from the arena opening [[10/2017)? Correct?

[[BTW, If one counts $157M for the LC headquarters + 35 - 40M for the Ilitch School of Business building. I can get to 190M+ without using a calculator).

[southen]

Counting parking garages and a new HQ that they NEEDED anyway due to the limits of their current space is pretty weak for fulfilling their obligations. It doesn't surprise me that they are going about it that way, I just wish that the city had done a better job of stipulating what could count towards that $200 million.

[emu steve]

Counting parking garages and a new HQ that they NEEDED anyway due to the limits of their current space is pretty weak for fulfilling their obligations. It doesn't surprise me that they are going about it that way, I just wish that the city had done a better job of stipulating what could count towards that $200 million.

Anyone have an emoticon showing moving goal posts?

Gee, I never thought of excluding anything that was 'NEEDED.'

Gee2, one could exclude parking garages on that basis as with the loss of surface parking space along Woodward from the Fisher to Temple, that they need say 1,500 additional spaces to replace the ones lost for LCA.

[emu steve]

Counting parking garages and a new HQ that they NEEDED anyway due to the limits of their current space is pretty weak for fulfilling their obligations. It doesn't surprise me that they are going about it that way, I just wish that the city had done a better job of stipulating what could count towards that $200 million.

One think I think is fair to say:

The Ilitches apparently 'rolled up' a lot of planned and unplanned work into this project.

They 'said' - we need parking garages, let's count them.

We need a new LC headquarters, let's count that.

We want to have a WSU building named after Mike Ilitch, let's count that.

We want to put housing on Woodward next to Comerica, let's...

Etc.

So rather than doing a piece meal project over say 5 - 10 years they rolled it all up into one very large project [[say 1B bucks - "lot of money" to quote Trump) over a couple years.

It makes a bigger splash and could be sold to the city as 'something really big.'

[southen]

Moving goalposts? They have had a need for a new headquarters or addition for awhile, but cleverly lumped it into the agreement to fulfill the bare minimum. They waited until the taxpayers were on the hook, which is the only way you can get them to develop anything.

Ah yes lumping together. We should all be thankful that after 30 years of accumulating and letting property rot that they are fast tracking several projects largely propped up by tax payers. Maybe you should hold off on being their personal cheerleader until the Eddystone, and their other neglected buildings along Park Avenue and Grand Circus get rehabbed that they've let deteriorate for decades.

[Wesley Mouch]

Moving goalposts? They have had a need for a new headquarters or addition for awhile, but cleverly lumped it into the agreement to fulfill the bare minimum. They waited until the taxpayers were on the hook, which is the only way you can get them to develop anything.

The only person that can move goalposts would be goalpost creator. That's not Ilitch. If goalposts are moving, blame the City/State/Authority/etc.

While I'm at it... the taxpayers placed themselves on the hook, by their representatives. If the City doesn't want to be in the business of subsidizing business, then they shouldn't be creating goalposts where business gets subsidies.

But if there are goalposts, you'd have to be a fool to believe that applicants for subsidy don't game the system, as much as legally possible.

Should Trump pay taxes he doesn't owe, just because it feels good? If the Times is right, he paid exactly what he owed. Seems he's constantly audited, so there's little reason to believe he did anything but his patriotic duty to pay what is owed.

Again, don't blame the player for the goalposts being moved. Blame the goalpost creator.

[bust]

The only person that can move goalposts would be goalpost creator. That's not Ilitch. If goalposts are moving, blame the City/State/Authority/etc.

While I'm at it... the taxpayers placed themselves on the hook, by their representatives. If the City doesn't want to be in the business of subsidizing business, then they shouldn't be creating goalposts where business gets subsidies.

But if there are goalposts, you'd have to be a fool to believe that applicants for subsidy don't game the system, as much as legally possible.

Should Trump pay taxes he doesn't owe, just because it feels good? If the Times is right, he paid exactly what he owed. Seems he's constantly audited, so there's little reason to believe he did anything but his patriotic duty to pay what is owed.

Again, don't blame the player for the goalposts being moved. Blame the goalpost creator.

We went through this before. I'll just copy and paste my response to you last time:

"You make a really good point to highlight the powers that be who make the decisions what to do with taxpayer money. It's at the crux of the situation.

However I disagree "'the powers that be' be us." The powers that be who diverted up to $324M of taxpayer money away from Michigan schools into Ilitch's hands for his sports arena were the Detroit Downtown Development Authority [[DDA) which is a subsidiary of the Detroit Economic Growth Corporation [[DEGC), and the Michigan Strategic Fund [[MSF), a subsidiary of the Michigan Economic Development Corporation [[MEDC).

They are not government agencies, they're ostensibly "non-profit organizations." They're run by un-elected officials. They make crucial decisions what to do with our public funds. And they've been set up in partnership with some of the private corporations whose financial interests are most heavily vested in the decisions they make.

Who are they specifically and how are their business interests tied to the decisions they make? What an important question. Let's quickly look at membership of the DDA. Today they are:

• Hon. Mike Duggan, Mayor of the City of Detroit
• Robert Anderson, City of Detroit
• Marvin Beaty, Greektown Casino
• David Blaszkiewicz, Detroit Investment Fund/Downtown Detroit Partnership
• Ehrlich Crain, White Construction
• Harold Curry, C.O.S. Group, LLC
• Sonya Delley, Flagstar Bank
• Richard Hosey, Resident
• Cheryl Johnson, City of Detroit
• Stephen Ogden, Rock Ventures

Ted Gatzaros, former partner in the Greektown Casino, was there too when the decision to fund the arena was made.

Interesting that Greektown Casino and Rock Ventures are part of this. Interesting too that Olympia is not. But who are the rest?

I didn't look long into this, but I wasn't surprised to quickly discover Ehrlich Crain is Vice President, Business Development of White Construction. They were granted the contract to build the arena. Imagine how much money they're set to make.

Neither was I surprised to discover Flagstar is the official bank partner of the Red Wings.

I'm sure there's more here to be found.

This quasi-governmental organization has direct financial relationships with some of the private corporations who benefit most from its decisions. They're not directly accountable to taxpayers. They seem barely even indirectly accountable to us. And they're just one among several similar quasi-governmental organizations deciding what to do with Michigan taxpayer money.

Just one of them gave away hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars for just one project. Money that would have otherwise gone to Michigan schools. How many total taxpayer dollars do these organizations control overall? What else do they allocate it for? Whose private financial interests are they benefiting? And what ties to these companies do the people making the decisions have? These are important questions we really ought to discuss.

I have neither the time time nor the expertise to conduct a thorough investigation. A proper investigative journalist ought to look into this. Are there still any investigative journalists in Detroit?"

And more, when you blamed it on the taxpayers for voting into office the people who set up these agencies:

"What percentage of Michigan taxpayers has even heard about the DDA, the DEGC, the MSF, and the MEDC? I've looked into this a bit and still don't understand what they do and how the people who run them are selected. It's not something the news media inform us about. Certainly not the dailies three-days-a-weeklies. Not tv, not radio either. It's a shame the "fourth estate" has been so decimated, especially in places like Michigan. They've been unable or unwilling to do the job.

These topics don't make for good sound bites in campaign ads either. Fearmongering is much more effective. It takes a strong interest and an active effort to learn the important facts these days. The situation leaves most people to vote by their gut instincts instead...

...In fairness, it's all incredibly complicated and confusing. I don't blame anyone who has a hard time following what's going on. I do too. I wonder even if it was designed to be this way.

Government officials are expected to end any relationships and divest or put into a blind trust any investments with corporations that have interests in the decisions they make. Federal officials and many others must do so by law. I'm not sure what conflict of interest laws apply to State and City officials in Michigan. And I know of no evidence any conflict of interest has occurred. But the situation is ripe for abuse and considering the money at stake these extra-governmental agencies are worth looking into. They give interested corporations a big share of power over public purse strings while evading the scrutiny public officials would attract, and seem to skirt any conflict of interest laws that exist.

The relationships between these governmental and extra-governmental agencies and the private companies they fund are so convoluted it's easy to get thrown off the trail. It's tiresome trying to make sense of the labyrinthine details. It feels like relief getting distracted before figuring them out...."

[emu steve]

The only person that can move goalposts would be goalpost creator. That's not Ilitch. If goalposts are moving, blame the City/State/Authority/etc.

While I'm at it... the taxpayers placed themselves on the hook, by their representatives. If the City doesn't want to be in the business of subsidizing business, then they shouldn't be creating goalposts where business gets subsidies.

But if there are goalposts, you'd have to be a fool to believe that applicants for subsidy don't game the system, as much as legally possible.

Should Trump pay taxes he doesn't owe, just because it feels good? If the Times is right, he paid exactly what he owed. Seems he's constantly audited, so there's little reason to believe he did anything but his patriotic duty to pay what is owed.

Again, don't blame the player for the goalposts being moved. Blame the goalpost creator.

I think my comments about moving the goal posts were directed at posters here in this thread.

Ilitches and the city have an agreement.

Folks here want to on this board at least change how dollars and projects should be counted.

Kind of like "this doesn't count", "that doesn't count" etc.

To the best of my knowledge NEITHER the city NOR Ilitch are complaining about the agreement.

The complaining is coming from posters on this forum. Never liked the agreement and never will...

[southen]

You conveniently left out the post where I said that I had wished the city did a better job at stipulating what could fulfill the development requirement.

You can blame both. With Trump you have a guy who has gone on the record criticizing poor people for not paying taxes and saying that large corporations shouldn't be able to get away with not paying taxes, ALL THE WHILE NOT PAYING ANYTHING! The tax code is crap, but the problem is the hypocrisy and deception in what he is preaching. Is it any wonder he isn't releasing his returns? It's not an audit, it is the fact that he has been duping people into thinking he is some "blue collar billionaire" who cares about the average guy, when he is the very definition of what he is out there complaining about.

As for the Illitch's this is a family out there creating a false narrative in the media to cover the fact that they have been suckling on the taxpayer teet for decades. I gag at every press release when they talk of their love of Detroit when their track record largely shows otherwise.

Do I understand why they take advantage of every loophole they can? Of course, I do the same. It is the bullshit and hypocrisy that both Trump and the Illitch's put out there to deceive the taxpayers that pisses me off. I can blame everyone involved.

[southen]

To the best of my knowledge NEITHER the city NOR Ilitch are complaining about the agreement.

Duh, they made the deal... It goes beyond the posters on this site and has been documented by national media sources as a misuse of funds. Hell even the President is trying to prevent taxpayer funded stadiums in the future. Perhaps he is on this forum though...

[Bham1982]

Here comes that long-promised "economic development"! Parking podiums for fat suburbanites who can't walk two blocks. Maybe if we're lucky we'll get a TGI Fridays...

[emu steve]

Here comes that long-promised "economic development"! Parking podiums for fat suburbanites who can't walk two blocks. Maybe if we're lucky we'll get a TGI Fridays...

Ugh!

Parking garages for the arena. Hdqtrs for LC. Housing across the street. Hotel and office on Henry. Yes, even the Eddystone, too. and a School of Business building.

In a city with minimal new construction that sounds good to me.

Detroit isn't NYC and can't look down on a billion bucks of development...