Joe Louis Arena Demolition
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  1. #26

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    It sure sounds like this is an almost-done deal. I think it's great, and will be better for the team and the fans, but I still have a hard time believing it is better for Gores given that he will be presumably be giving up all the parking revenue and probably most of the concession revenue. I wonder if it is, or if he just doesn't care.

  2. #27

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    Great news for Detroit, and in the long term, potentially Auburn Hills as well. If Gores does indeed move the Pistons downtown, that's another 41 nights a year (plus any playoff games) that LCA is going to be filled. I don't know what the economic impact is of that, but I'd imagine quote significant for all the bars and restaurants who rely solely on the Wings during the winter between baseball and football seasons.

    The Palace site, if Gores so chooses to keep it, could be a major boon for Auburn Hills. Knock down the palace, market it to automotive suppliers, and you could have multiple large suppliers on that site. The proximity to FCA and the industrial base in that area, plus the freeway access makes it a prime location. I'd think Gores understands that rather than trying to continue filling the Palace with concerts and monster truck shows.

    As for revenue from LCA, I'm sure Gores is going to want some sort of split revenue with Little Caesars in some way. I can't imagine he would take nothing out of the arrangement, otherwise it wouldn't make much financial sense to dump the Palace in favor of downtown. We will have to wait and see what the details are once it is announced.

  3. #28

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    In reality, yes this is true, and the Palace doesn't exactly have any neighborhood watering holes that will be put out of business-- because it's location is so gawdawful. That said, I'd also be against a new corporate office there, unless it was the satellite of something Detroit based. For example, a newly formed auto supplier is said to be moving to metro Detroit from Milwaukee (yesterday's Crains). That needs to be HQ'd in the City, say I, though if they must have an OC office, fine.

  4. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg19 View Post
    As for revenue from LCA, I'm sure Gores is going to want some sort of split revenue with Little Caesars in some way. I can't imagine he would take nothing out of the arrangement, otherwise it wouldn't make much financial sense to dump the Palace in favor of downtown. We will have to wait and see what the details are once it is announced.
    I agree there's no chance Gores is just going to be a tenant. I would also expect Gores participate in the broader development of the neighborhood. I would certainly be asking for property as a condition for moving.
    Last edited by MSUguy; October-26-16 at 10:20 AM.

  5. #30

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    When it comes to financial and revenue discussions, I think it's worth pointing out that not only is the NBA growing here and globally, they also have a massive new TV deal and just hammered out a new collective bargaining agreement with relative ease. There is a ton of money flowing into the franchises and owners right now. He bought the team for only $315 million, which was pretty cheap in relative terms. I've seen them valued as high as $800 million. I'm not sure he's going to sweat too much about parking revenue.

  6. #31

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    Ticket prices will likely be marginally higher, and suite prices also higher, at LCA. The latter will be particularly crucial. Not that the Palace has a bad suite situation, but LCA will be quite special and you will probably get a higher occupancy rate there.

  7. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeg19 View Post
    The Palace site, if Gores so chooses to keep it, could be a major boon for Auburn Hills. Knock down the palace, market it to automotive suppliers, and you could have multiple large suppliers on that site. The proximity to FCA and the industrial base in that area, plus the freeway access makes it a prime location. I'd think Gores understands that rather than trying to continue filling the Palace with concerts and monster truck shows.
    Is the Palace land really all that valuable? It seems like there is enough open land and half built technology parks around there already. As far as proximity to FCA, the Silverdome site is much closer, and there could be more available real estate close by as soon as Takata goes out of business.

  8. #33
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  9. #34
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    Is our man Louis A. on to something? Could this work as a location for a practice facility???

    I kind of liked the area south of the Lodge (around 3rd and Temple) for a soccer stadium, or I'd guess maybe a Pistons' facility, but this MC Casino location could very well be the site.

    The land is apparently just sitting there waiting...

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...erty/92807830/

    P.S. wouldn't it make sense for the Pistons to build or have built an office building at Woodward/Fisher?

    The combination of a practice facility + office building both near LCA would seem ideal to me.
    Last edited by emu steve; October-27-16 at 06:15 AM.

  10. #35

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    I don't know much about stadium construction, but isn't that first point kind of a big deal? I mean, construction is in the thick of it and suddenly they might have to change it? That sounds really arduous.

    Also I also don't know anything about practice facilities, but could they move downtown and still use the Palace as their practice site? Until one is built...Or are practice facilities usually smaller? How many buildings are left that could house the Pistons org?

  11. #36
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    I assume the Pistons could use the facilities at the Palace until one is ready downtown.

    The big question is how long to do zoning, architectural work, etc. etc.

  12. #37

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    Too bad they took out the Hotel Park Avenue-- that would have been a really classy spot for Pistons team HQ.

    I am sure they can find some empty land in the neighborhood. Not worried, at all.

  13. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackinaw View Post
    Too bad they took out the Hotel Park Avenue-- that would have been a really classy spot for Pistons team HQ.

    I am sure they can find some empty land in the neighborhood. Not worried, at all.
    There's a carbon copy of that building sitting right next to the arena, but I doubt the Pistons want something that large or old. What they want is a new modern practice facility like Advocate Center in Chicago: http://www.hok.com/uploads/2014/12/1...terbulls01.jpg

    I hope they partner with the DMC and build an all in one practice/office/medicine facility just north of the arena.

    I don't know much about stadium construction, but isn't that first point kind of a big deal? I mean, construction is in the thick of it and suddenly they might have to change it? That sounds really arduous.
    The arena is already multi-purpose and can host NBA games with ease. If you build it for hockey, it works perfectly fine for basketball. It's only a problem when you build it as basketball-first aka the Barclays Center. The issue they are working on right now would be minor. Like making sure they have modern NBA locker rooms from the get-go. Oklahoma City had to renovate their arena to NBA standards when they moved the Sonics there. LCA has generic basketball locker room for college ball, so now Gores wants to make sure they are specialized for the Pistons. Also, they are probably working on getting a 50/50 split for memorabilia and colors throughout the arena. Hopefully they keep the seats red since they match both teams colors. None of these are that big of a deal and can easily be worked out. The biggest problem was revenue splits and they seem to have worked that out. Anyway, it's probably a done deal since they are already talking about a practice facility and LBP has admitted that he expects them to move downtown.
    Last edited by nash313; October-27-16 at 10:21 AM.

  14. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackinaw View Post
    Too bad they took out the Hotel Park Avenue-- that would have been a really classy spot for Pistons team HQ.

    I am sure they can find some empty land in the neighborhood. Not worried, at all.
    Haha, I love this. I tend to agree that the Park Avenue would have been less than ideal for a Pistons Headquarters, but I love that you turned the screw in the Ilitches here, Mackinaw!

    1953

  15. #40

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    Yeah I also expect and am totally fine with something flashy and new, particularly since that will cover up vacant lots. But, I will always turn those screws...

  16. #41

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    L.B. Patterson is problably cussing at Mayor Duggan, Tom Gores and Mike Illitch right about now.

  17. #42
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    I wonder if the Ilitches assembled all of that property around the MC Casino thinking if the Pistons come they'll need... (not simply a buffer around the casino?).

    So how do the Ilitches 'sweetn' the deal for the Pistons coming to town?

    How about offering some land for a practice facility and maybe more valuable land for their team headquarters?

  18. #43

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    Cost for Little Caesars Arena increases slightly, amid speculation of Pistons moving to downtown Detroit

    Metro Times has learned that Tom Lewand, group executive for jobs and economic growth in the administration of Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan, is a key player in negotiations between the Ilitch family and Gores. Duggan is the chairman of the DDA board — and, in his absence, Lewand serves as his conduit.

    Asked if Lewand is involved in negotiations for the Pistons, or if the mayor would support the use of a tax incentive package to lure the Pistons downtown, a spokesperson declined to comment.

    “As a rule, we wouldn't discuss any ongoing negotiation that may be taking place or respond to speculative reporting that has taken place,” said Duggan’s spokesman, John Roach.

    The DDA on Wednesday approved a contract adjustment that raises the total cost for the arena to $732.6 million — however, Olympia Development of Michigan (ODM), the arm of Red Wings owners Mike and Marian Ilitch’s company that is building the facility, says the actual cost of construction remains at $627.5 million.

    The difference in costs appears to come down to the definition each have of “arena.”

    In approving a change order for the arena project on Wednesday, the DDA defined the $732.6 million cost for the facility as: $451 million for the arena itself; $146 million for construction around the arena, including, for example, a new parking garage; and $97 million in “soft” costs, meaning engineering and architectural planning.
    Hmm..... I wonder if this was the master plan all along. You know, build the arena with the help of state bonds and then have the city/DDA expand the TIF district to help fund the Pistons practice facility and HQ. Gores is obviously a wealthy man and doesn't need tax payers help just like Ilitch, but when there's DDA tax breaks to be had.... why not play the system to your advantage. It would also be interesting to see if they end up moving the new scoreboard from the Palace to the LCA. It's one of those modern Cowboys Stadium scoreboard and they really wouldn't need it for concerts at the Palace. Saves them money and it wouldn't be a waste on Gores part.

    A lot of people thought this would happen eventually, but I'm surprised it could happen as early as next year. Perhaps we should have known when Tom Wilson was hired by the Ilitches.

  19. #44

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    What to do with the Palace site? Put another landfill there obviously.

    It's hard for me to imagine there being much demand for the site since there's already a lot of open land around there. But it's also hard for me to imagine that the Palace would stop being profitable if the Pistons were gone. Does the entire operation depend on those 41 game nights? Are the other 324 nights so bad that filling the game days with a few dozen more concerts isn't enough? I don't really know much about how that stuff works.

  20. #45

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    I always thought the pacers had a great practice court in their arena that fans could view from the street. But they are now building an even bigger practice facility across the street.

    http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2...oard/75474790/

  21. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    What to do with the Palace site? Put another landfill there obviously.

    It's hard for me to imagine there being much demand for the site since there's already a lot of open land around there. But it's also hard for me to imagine that the Palace would stop being profitable if the Pistons were gone. Does the entire operation depend on those 41 game nights? Are the other 324 nights so bad that filling the game days with a few dozen more concerts isn't enough? I don't really know much about how that stuff works.

    The Pistons should move and the Palace should remain a venue. LCA will be operating 65-70% of days from September thru June for sports, maybe more in years with special tournaments. The choice nights that remain will go to your big name arena shows, your Kanye West's of the world, but where does Jimmy Buffet and Disney on Ice go? Well the Palace of course!

    I bet the Palace could still have 5-10 bookings per month, on average. It can ride into the sunset, and then one day in 15 years, return to the earth as an extension of the neighboring landfill.

  22. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    What to do with the Palace site? Put another landfill there obviously.

    It's hard for me to imagine there being much demand for the site since there's already a lot of open land around there. But it's also hard for me to imagine that the Palace would stop being profitable if the Pistons were gone. Does the entire operation depend on those 41 game nights? Are the other 324 nights so bad that filling the game days with a few dozen more concerts isn't enough? I don't really know much about how that stuff works.
    It's rare for just one team to occupy an arena. Minnesota and Arizona are the only NBA/NHL teams that I can think of with separate arenas, so the Pistons & Wings were already spreading the revenue thinner. Cleveland has no NHL team but Gilbert has a minor league hockey and an Arena Football League team at the Q. Now that the majority of concerts would go to the new Wings arena, as opposed to the Palace, the future for the Palace looks bleak.

  23. #48

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    The groundbreaking for the new facility was today.

    http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nb...ood/789123001/

    Renderings here as well
    https://www.facebook.com/detroitpist...55685208405295

  24. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by 401don View Post
    It's rare for just one team to occupy an arena. Minnesota and Arizona are the only NBA/NHL teams that I can think of with separate arenas, so the Pistons & Wings were already spreading the revenue thinner. Cleveland has no NHL team but Gilbert has a minor league hockey and an Arena Football League team at the Q. Now that the majority of concerts would go to the new Wings arena, as opposed to the Palace, the future for the Palace looks bleak.
    Well, I know it just opened, but the attendance at LCA for Pistons games is already looking bleak. Maybe it will improve depending on the popular and better teams, like the Cavs and Warriors coming in, or it may be a reflection of the product on the floor. I've been seeing a lot of empty seats for a brand new arena.
    Last edited by Cincinnati_Kid; October-24-17 at 02:16 AM.

  25. #50
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    Amazing but I think those seats are sold and many unused. Such a waste.

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