New Urbanization

**emu steve** · August-20-16, 11:56 AM

Whenever I see an article about the revitalization of a big city I try to relate it to Detroit, that is how is it similar or different.

And also as part of a trend in the U.S. of moving away from suburbanization and exburbization and revitalizing the central city.

Curious what folks make of what is happening in Newark and how it compares to what is happening in Detroit? [[although there is a big difference between Newark and Detroit in that Newark isn't the central city in a metropolitan area).

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/re...le-span-region

**401don** · August-20-16, 02:19 PM

I know nothing about Newark but it's geographically a very small densely populated city compared to Detroit. While there may be similarities with redeveloping the core, it has nothing on the scale of Detroit's abandonment problems.

**emu steve** · August-21-16, 05:04 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

I know nothing about Newark but it's geographically a very small densely populated city compared to Detroit. While there may be similarities with redeveloping the core, it has nothing on the scale of Detroit's abandonment problems.

Article says it is 24 square miles. Lot of vacant land.

I'm going to check out Detroit's land area.

EDIT: Approximately 140 sq. miles per Wikipedia. Or as Bernie, remember him?, would say '[[h)uge'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit

**renf** · August-21-16, 09:47 AM

Thanks for posting the essay about Newark. It is interesting - and important - to look at the efforts to revitalize and repopulate older cities that declined.

Today's paper has a long and informative essay about Professor Marc Edwards and his efforts in Flint. Flint residents may have more confidence in him than in our elected leaders.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/ma...pgtype=article

**iheartthed** · August-22-16, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

I know nothing about Newark but it's geographically a very small densely populated city compared to Detroit. While there may be similarities with redeveloping the core, it has nothing on the scale of Detroit's abandonment problems.

Newark is dense on paper but does have a lot of issues with vacant lots and abandoned buildings that are familiar to Detroiters.

**Bham1982** · August-22-16, 12:20 PM

Newark is 7-8 miles from Manhattan, hence revitalization/gentrification is inevitable. It's like a 25 minute subway ride to the WTC. When you're a short train ride from the most important business center on the planet, it's probably a good long-term bet.

Also, while Newark has some terrible areas, it also has some great urban neighborhoods. The Ironbound is, at least urbanistically, about as good as it gets in the U.S. Newark's Westside is the problem area. Northside is so-so.

Not really comparable to Detroit outside of the basic "U.S. city with urban ills" themes.

**emu steve** · August-31-16, 10:00 AM

I'm, I guess, using this thread to discuss certain urban revitalization topics related to large cities.

NYTimes had an interesting article on what is [[finally) happening around the Barclay's Center in Brooklyn.

Don't know hardly anything about Brooklyn so I don't have many opinions...

The authors do have opinions as to what lead to this housing boom.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/30/ny...=business&_r=0

As far as Barclays, it was located at a subway stop.

"Barclays Center is home to the NBA’s Brooklyn Nets and the NHL’s New York Islanders, and also serves as a premier venue for concerts and other events. Located in the heart of Brooklyn with a subway stop at its front door, the area brings new life to Brooklyn."

http://www.aecom.com/nz/projects/barclays-center/?qp=17

**Mackinaw** · August-31-16, 11:20 AM

I will provide an analysis comparing/contrasting asap. I've recently lived in Newark.

**emu steve** · August-31-16, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

I will provide an analysis comparing/contrasting asap. I've recently lived in Newark.

Awaiting.

Two factors which should be obvious are the new arena and the subway stop.

Should be interesting to read in say 5 years their take on LCA and the QLine.

**iheartthed** · August-31-16, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

I'm, I guess, using this thread to discuss certain urban revitalization topics related to large cities.

NYTimes had an interesting article on what is [[finally) happening around the Barclay's Center in Brooklyn.

Don't know hardly anything about Brooklyn so I don't have many opinions...

The authors do have opinions as to what lead to this housing boom.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/30/ny...=business&_r=0

As far as Barclays, it was located at a subway stop.

"Barclays Center is home to the NBA’s Brooklyn Nets and the NHL’s New York Islanders, and also serves as a premier venue for concerts and other events. Located in the heart of Brooklyn with a subway stop at its front door, the area brings new life to Brooklyn."

http://www.aecom.com/nz/projects/barclays-center/?qp=17

I live in this area of Brooklyn. To say that the neighborhoods in that area are experiencing a building boom is a gross understatement. They are building on every patch of dirt in north west and north central Brooklyn now. Only a handful of the construction is related to the Barclays. Most of it is a result of zoning changes and the extremely high occupancy rates of the past decade.

**Bham1982** · August-31-16, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I live in this area of Brooklyn. To say that the neighborhoods in that area are experiencing a building boom is a gross understatement. They are building on every patch of dirt in north west and north central Brooklyn now. Only a handful of the construction is related to the Barclays. Most of it is a result of zoning changes and the extremely high occupancy rates of the past decade.

And this part of Brooklyn isn't exactly "up and coming". It's prime, and has been for some time. Has almost nothing to do with the arena.

I don't think the Fort Greene area was remotely "rough" since maybe the mid-90's or so. Even then, was never a slum or anything. Was always somewhat desirable.

**swingline** · August-31-16, 02:27 PM

Viewing it from flyover country, it's hard to comprehend the kind of wage scale and economy that can absorb thousands of new construction rental units at $5/ft/mo within only a year or so. Developers around here fret about leasing a few dozen new units at less than half that price.

**bust** · August-31-16, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

I'm, I guess, using this thread to discuss certain urban revitalization topics related to large cities.

NYTimes had an interesting article on what is [[finally) happening around the Barclay's Center in Brooklyn.

Don't know hardly anything about Brooklyn so I don't have many opinions...

The authors do have opinions as to what lead to this housing boom.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/30/ny...=business&_r=0

As far as Barclays, it was located at a subway stop.

"Barclays Center is home to the NBA’s Brooklyn Nets and the NHL’s New York Islanders, and also serves as a premier venue for concerts and other events. Located in the heart of Brooklyn with a subway stop at its front door, the area brings new life to Brooklyn."

http://www.aecom.com/nz/projects/barclays-center/?qp=17

I live there too. Going on 19 years. First Fort Greene, now Park Slope. Never more than a few blocks from where the Barclays Center is today. I’ve seen the neighborhood transition.

The Barclays Center has little to do with the apartments coming to the neighborhood. On the contrary, I believe it has an overall negative effect due to the crowds of outsiders it attracts. Many don't behave as they would if they were at home. I noticed no trouble from the fans who recently attended the Barbara Streisand concerts, but the ones who came for the professional wrestling were, um, unruly. My wife saw some hauled away in handcuffs. On an average night the behavior of the crowd is better, but we dislike the late night drunken shouting a few feet below our apartment window, the sidewalk vomit, and the extra horn honking. Your opinion will be different if you own one of the many bars, burger, and pizza joints that have cropped up to serve them. But most of us locals miss the hardware stores, tailors, and other mom-and-pop businesses that served the people who actually live here they replaced.

I suppose the most positive change came when Bruce Ratner, the developer of the Barclays Center, finally ended his decades-long strategy of accumulating properties for his plans and then neglecting them until he was ready to build. But that’s a story for another day.

The Barclays Center sits at the intersection of Fort Greene, Prospect Heights, Park Slope, and Boerum Hill. They all were great neighborhoods long before the arena arrived. Many things still make them great neighborhoods despite the Barclays Center today.

The New York Times article alluded to one of the main amenities this neighborhood has going for it: great transit. Almost every subway line runs through it, and the Long Island Railroad besides.

And the other big one: great cultural institutions. The New York Times article alluded to this too. The recent development has occurred within The Downtown Brooklyn Cultural District.

This does a better job than the Times article describing many of the neighborhood arts and cultural institutions there:

http://www.nydailynews.com/services/...icle-1.2335787

An incomplete map of them can be found here:

http://www.tfana.org/community/bam-cultural-district

Some operate on a shoestring budget. Others are better-funded. People seem much more willing to invest large sums of public money in stadiums than in art organizations, but the recent development discussed in Brooklyn has a lot more to do with the Brooklyn Academy of Music and the cultural district than the Nets and Islanders. Those priorities are misplaced. And let's not forget about the importance of great transit. Nor all the other reasons why New York has enjoyed a strong economy, and Brooklyn has become a place where people want to be. It's not arenas, parking decks, and expressways. There aren't many.

Here's a partial list of the cultural organizations in the district. I got it from the website above and added a couple big ones it missed:

The Alliance of Resident Theatres / New York [[A.R.T./New York) - the service and advocacy organization for the nation’s largest, most artistically influential and culturally diverse theatre community: Off Broadway. It operates South Oxford Space, a rehearsal and shared office space facility on South Oxford Street which houses twenty-two performing arts organizations.

Bang on a Can - grown from a one-day, twelve-hour music festival to a multi-faceted organization.

BOMB Magazine, aka New Art Publications, - a 501[[c)[[3) non-profit corporation that publishes interviews and essays in which emerging and established artists can speak openly about their work.

Brooklyn Academy of Music [[BAM) - an urban arts center that brings international performing arts and film to Brooklyn. BAM’s current programming consists of the Next Wave Festival each fall; a spring season of international opera, theater, and dance.

Brooklyn Academy of Music Fisher Building - provides a comprehensive Education & Humanities program, and a variety of community programs.

Brooklyn Academy of Music Harvey Theatre - An 832 seat historic theatre, sometimes rated among the nation’s best.

Brooklyn Music School [[BMS) - provides on-site instruction in music and dance, public school outreach programs, and professional performances.

BRIC Arts - a non-profit organization presenting arts, media and educational programs reflective of Brooklyn’s diverse communities. Its signature programs include: Celebrate Brooklyn, BCAT/Brooklyn Community Access Television, The Rotunda Gallery and BRIC Studio.

The Center for Fiction - the only nonprofit literary organization in the U.S. solely dedicated to celebrating fiction.

Cool Culture - dedicated to facilitating low-income families’ access to and participation in the cultural life of New York City.

Creative Outlet Dance Theatre of Brooklyn - a Brooklyn-based arts organization that trains professional artists, produces new multimedia works, and tours internationally.

Evidence, A Dance Company - under the artistic leadership of Ronald K. Brown, focuses on the seamless fusion of traditional African dance, modern, ballet and hip-hop dance styles.

Franklin Furnace - it’s mission is to present, preserve, interpret, proselytize and advocate on behalf of avant-garde art.

Irondale Ensemble Project - produces and teaches experimental theater with a strong voice for social change.

Mark Morris Dance Group - offers classes for adults and children in its state-of-the-art dance facility.

MoCADA / The Museum of Contemporary African Diasporan Arts - devoted to creating innovative exhibitions which serve as a medium to address, discuss, debate and resolve contemporary social, political and economic issues that disproportionately affect the people of the African Diaspora.

New York Writers Coalition [[NYWC) - creates opportunities to be heard, through the art of writing, for formerly voiceless members of society.

Polonsky Shakespeare Center - home to the Theatre for a New Audience, whose mission is to develop and vitalize the performance and study of Shakespeare and classic drama.

Scenarios USA - a non-profit organization that uses writing and filmmaking to foster youth leadership, advocacy and self-expression in under-served teens.

StoryCorps - a national project that instructs and inspires people to record each other’s stories in sound.

UrbanGlass - a non-profit international center that promotes the use and appreciation of glass as a creative medium.

Urban Bush Women - a performance ensemble dedicated to exploring the use of cultural expression as a catalyst for social change.

WITNESS - uses video and online technologies to open the eyes of the world to human rights violations.

**emu steve** · August-31-16, 03:30 PM

Bust, that was a 'record???' long post.

I like the mention of the subway. In cities with good, well functioning subway systems they attract a lot of development around the stations.

This is no exception. I believe Newark also benefits from the subway.

To pivot back to the Motor City, well QLine is as close as we get...

**emu steve** · August-31-16, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

And this part of Brooklyn isn't exactly "up and coming". It's prime, and has been for some time. Has almost nothing to do with the arena.

I don't think the Fort Greene area was remotely "rough" since maybe the mid-90's or so. Even then, was never a slum or anything. Was always somewhat desirable.

Location, location, location?

Subway, subway, subway?

**bust** · August-31-16, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Bust, that was a 'record???' long post...

A lot of Ctrl-C; Ctrl-V.

I don't expect anyone to read the list of art institutions. My point was that there are a lot of them, they make the neighborhood interesting, and they have nothing to do with the Barclays Center.

**iheartthed** · September-01-16, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

And this part of Brooklyn isn't exactly "up and coming". It's prime, and has been for some time. Has almost nothing to do with the arena.

I don't think the Fort Greene area was remotely "rough" since maybe the mid-90's or so. Even then, was never a slum or anything. Was always somewhat desirable.

Fort Greene certainly hasn't been "rough" in a long time, if it ever was. But hardly anything is being built in Fort Greene itself, except for the apartment high rises that the re-zoning allowed along the Fort Greene side of Flatbush Avenue. Most of the building is going on in Downtown Brooklyn, Prospect Heights, Clinton Hill, Bedford Stuyvesant, and Crown Heights.

**iheartthed** · September-01-16, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Location, location, location?

Subway, subway, subway?

It would not have happened without the transit. But in New York the public transit is so ubiquitous that transit alone isn't always the deciding factor. In this case I think the re-zoning and population growth had a lot more to do with it. The transit has been there for over a century.

**Wesley Mouch** · September-03-16, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

It would not have happened without the transit. But in New York the public transit is so ubiquitous that transit alone isn't always the deciding factor. In this case I think the re-zoning and population growth had a lot more to do with it. The transit has been there for over a century.

Leaving aside the politics of why, do you think the decrease in crime in NYC [[and esp. the outer boroughs) has been a major factor?

**mwilbert** · September-03-16, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Leaving aside the politics of why, do you think the decrease in crime in NYC [[and esp. the outer boroughs) has been a major factor?

I think the national decrease in crime has been a major factor in the increased attractiveness of central cities in general. NYC with its greater-than-average crime drop is a very good example, but of course NYC is also in some sense the most urban of US cities which makes it extra-attractive to those seeking that, and also benefits from trend of essentially all recent employment increases clustering in a small set of the major metros, so crime is certainly not the entire story.

**iheartthed** · September-03-16, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Leaving aside the politics of why, do you think the decrease in crime in NYC [[and esp. the outer boroughs) has been a major factor?

No, I don't think it is much of a factor. This happening in Brooklyn because of zoning changes and ease of commute to Manhattan. These areas of Brooklyn have more favorable commute times to Manhattan's business centers than even some parts of Manhattan. Think of how Windsor is to downtown Detroit then add 10 subway lines and a couple more bridges and tunnels. Then, on top of all that, there just isn't much room left to build or gentrify in Manhattan. Anything built in Manhattan now is basically for people with net worths of 8 figures or more.

But, why do I really discount crime rates? First, NYC's crime rates dropped dramatically in the late 90s but haven't really moved significantly since. There is no real visible change in the perception of crime today than since the early 2000s. Second, NYC's population was increasing again for two decades prior to when the crime rate peaked. Crime decline has never led gentrification here. If there is any relationship at all then it is most likely the opposite: gentrification may lead to decreases in crime rates.

What did happen over the last decade is that New York once again started to set new peak populations. It lost a huge number of residents in the 1950s - 1970s and then took from the 1970s - 2010s to recover the lost population. Now it is at a point again where New York is "bigger than it has ever been before." Again.

**renf** · September-03-16, 12:32 PM

Newark has one of the shorter subways in this county - only about 5.3 miles. Perhaps the one in Buffalo is even shorter. And in Newark light rail rather than heavy rail equipment is used. In general, efficient, high speed rail transit has been a stimulus for economic development in high density urban areas. I wonder if that is true in Newark. I have not taken the subway there - or in Buffalo - for more than a decade.

**mwilbert** · September-03-16, 12:56 PM

I think that is a strange way to interpret the data. Murders in NYC peaked in 1990, and the population of NYC grew fastest in the 1990s, as crime was dropping. The increases in the decades before and after that were much slower.

**iheartthed** · September-03-16, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

I think that is a strange way to interpret the data. Murders in NYC peaked in 1990, and the population of NYC grew fastest in the 1990s, as crime was dropping. The increases in the decades before and after that were much slower.

The population also grew more in the 1980s than it did in the 2000s, even though the crime rate was increasing during the 1980s and decreasing during the 2000s. I don't think it is a defensible argument to say that there is a causal relationship between declining crime rates and population increases in NYC. The population has increased when the crime rate has been both increasing and decreasing.

**Bham1982** · September-03-16, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by renf

Newark has one of the shorter subways in this county - only about 5.3 miles. Perhaps the one in Buffalo is even shorter. And in Newark light rail rather than heavy rail equipment is used. In general, efficient, high speed rail transit has been a stimulus for economic development in high density urban areas. I wonder if that is true in Newark. I have not taken the subway there - or in Buffalo - for more than a decade.

Newark's "subway", at least in the typical connotation [[heavy rail) is the PATH train, which connects to NYC and points on the Jersey waterfront. The Newark City Subway is actually light rail, but runs underground primarily. There's also a separate surface light rail line.

In any case Newark is just a city within a greater metropolitan area, and doesn't share many similarities with Detroit, which is a primary central city.