RTA's new "Reflex" service

[professorscott]

So the first tangible thing people will see come out of the RTA is the new "Reflex" service, a new Woodward express route 498 operated by DDOT, and a new Gratiot pair of express routes 598/599 operated by SMART. The information is available at www.rtamichigan.org/reflex.

Couple things to ponder. First, because of the limited funding available, the new service is only going to operate about every 45 minutes at best. Thoughts on that? Obviously a true and fully-funded BRT in the future will have much better headways, and amenities this will, of necessity, lack. Second, the downtown stop is a short block off the northeast corner of Campus Martius Park, which puts it almost a quarter mile from the "main" downtown bus stop behind the City-County building. Interestingly, it is a very short distance from the Cadillac Center PeopleMover station, and also a short walk to Randolph Street where many of the east side inbound SMART buses have a stop. But it's not "right downtown" the way many people would style it.

Curious what people think about all this. I think of it more as a demonstration project - the RTA saying, basically, we can do this, and we could do a lot more of it even better if you vote for our millage. Also, importantly, it restores some all-day, if infrequent, service along the two most heavily transited corridors between Detroit and the northern 'burbs.

Just as a side note, I'm not in town, but I would LOVE to be at Somerset early next month when DDOT buses start arriving, just to catch people's reaction.

[mtburb]

About time this happened!

From what I head, they're supposed to begin service during the Labor Day weekend. In addition, other DDOT/SMART service changes I know will happen around that time include the introduction of a couple of new DDOT express routes as well as the return of the 125 to using the newly-reopened Jefferson Bridge.

Seeing DDOT buses along Woodward in Oakland County ought to be interesting though.

[dtowncitylover]

What's unfortunate is the haters bringing up the age old racist complaint that this and everything the RTA wants to do is going to bring crime into the suburbs. Because you know, that's a criminal's #1 choice for transportation. They're gonna get far and quick on a bus...

Anyway, I'll have to look when I have the time when the buses are going to come and take a picture at Somerset or somewhere along Woodward. This is going to be interesting indeed!

[royce]

Well, this is really all the system needs to start. I've been complaining for years that what's needed to improve transit in Metro Detroit is an increase in express busses. The infrastructure costs to tear up roadways for dedicated BRT lanes in some areas of the proposed system is a waste of money. The Michigan BRT route in Dearborn aroung the old City Hall would require tearing up the planters trees as well as sidewalks and parking lanes just to fit two BRT lanes. Express busses maybe all that's needed.

[Wesley Mouch]

What's unfortunate is the haters bringing up the age old racist complaint that this and everything the RTA wants to do is going to bring crime into the suburbs. Because you know, that's a criminal's #1 choice for transportation. They're gonna get far and quick on a bus...

Anyway, I'll have to look when I have the time when the buses are going to come and take a picture at Somerset or somewhere along Woodward. This is going to be interesting indeed!

Haters are a minority. And they are shrinking.

Don't give your focus to the few -- don't seek the negative -- be instead a beacon of light.

[Bobl]

"Express buses may be all that is needed." Royce has a point. Not in all applications, but true in many cases. And often, they could get riders from downtown to New Center a few minutes faster than the Qline, which we are now told will take 15 minutes.

[dtowncitylover]

"Express buses may be all that is needed." Royce has a point. Not in all applications, but true in many cases. And often, they could get riders from downtown to New Center a few minutes faster than the Qline, which we are now told will take 15 minutes.

Sorry Royce and Bobl, but that's a Band-Aid on a larger problem. It's true that this is needed and much over due. But having express bus lines is not going to help further boost the economic investment we so desperately need. We need urban investment in transit, through stronger DDOT routes, expanding on M-1 Rail, and the use of the heavier BRT.

[Hypestyles]

hopefully this will be successful and continue.

[professorscott]

"Express buses may be all that is needed." Royce has a point. Not in all applications, but true in many cases. And often, they could get riders from downtown to New Center a few minutes faster than the Qline, which we are now told will take 15 minutes.

Sure. Remember, your kindly old Professor worked on M1 Rail before it was even called M1 Rail. The 498 will make fewer stops than QLine, so of course it will be quicker. The point of QLine isn't to be rapid transit, which it isn't. The point is to fill a niche similar to the Portland Streetcar - getting people around the cultural and educational centers of that part of town with a popular service and decent frequency. By the way, the Portland Streetcar - we visited and spent some time talking to its projectors and riding it - might be the single slowest public transit vehicle I've ever been on, and that's saying something. But that isn't the point of it, and it is WILDLY popular, and creates a buzz for its neighborhood.

Let me put bookends on this. If you want to see what small-scale urban light rail looks like when it's done about as well as it can be, go to Portland. If you want to see what it looks like when it's done really badly, check out the recently-opened DC streetcar - and even that is getting decent ridership in spite of itself. QLine in terms of its planning and service parameters is much closer to Portland.

[Sandhouse]

I've always been puzzled at the lack of express buses in southeast Michigan. I hope these express services prove popular, but I don't know if I'm confident of it. We'll know soon. This is indeed a good start on the more-comprehensive RTA system, although the BRT and commuter express services aren't identical products. It will be possible for an express bus to beat BRT timings over more than a few miles.
I periodically use NJ Transit or the private DeCamp bus line from suburban New Jersey to the 42nd Street bus terminal in Manhattan. Their schedules stop at a half-dozen or so corners in suburban towns, and then proceed through the tunnel to 42nd Street, a half-hour trip for $7. An equivalent service might make a few stops in Birmingham or Royal Oak before getting on I-75 for downtown.
I wonder if any other employment centers are dense enough to attract similar services?

[casscorridor]

Frequency could improve substantially, as well as a unified fare structure. Two different fares for DDOT/SMART is confusing and unnecessary. Eventually a payment system that includes a contactless smart card and apple pay should be introduced.

[Canadian Visitor]

Some service, is better than no service.

But if the goal is to change either the reality of carless citizens and the challenges they face accessing education, jobs, medical appointments etc. OR the perceptions of transit by those who current have no use for it, or imagine they don't......then simply enacting poor, infrequent, poorly branded service is dubious.

To attract riders, services need to be available whenever you need them, in both directions. Its not merely getting to work at 8 or 9am, its being able to leave work early or late, or reach a non-work appointment and still get home.

Its not merely being all-day, its being reasonably frequent and predictable. Bare-bones basic is 30 minute frequency, more whenever demand warrants.

Its also about branding the service [[not just the packaging as it were) but the quality and appearance of shelters, and the interior design of vehicles. These things are what swing perceptions of transit and thereby illicit more casual ridership in the burbs, or elsewhere, which in turn creates both demand and more willingness to fund.

If the service has the appearance of a 'welfare service' it won't have widespread uptake and funding will be an uphill battle.

That doesn't mean the service need be luxurious, it can't crappy.

The metric used here for a travel time is 'journey time' which is how long does it take a rider, including walking to the stop on either end and any waits times to get where they are going.

As a rule of thumb if the all-in total isn't A)under an hour; B) within 20% of the travel time experienced by a car driver the service won't have good uptake. There are exceptions....but its a good guideline.

[emu steve]

About time this happened!

From what I head, they're supposed to begin service during the Labor Day weekend. In addition, other DDOT/SMART service changes I know will happen around that time include the introduction of a couple of new DDOT express routes as well as the return of the 125 to using the newly-reopened Jefferson Bridge.

Seeing DDOT buses along Woodward in Oakland County ought to be interesting though.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...utes/89089064/

[professorscott]

While we're talking about nice bus service changes, the DDOT Eastern Market Saturday tripper schedule is available. Unfortunately I can't upload it to here because of file size restrictions. Hopefully this link works: http://www.detroitmi.gov/Portals/0/d...resh_Wagon.pdf

[scooter]

about time this happened!

From what i head, they're supposed to begin service during the labor day weekend. In addition, other ddot/smart service changes i know will happen around that time include the introduction of a couple of new ddot express routes as well as the return of the 125 to using the newly-reopened jefferson bridge.

Seeing ddot buses along woodward in oakland county ought to be interesting though.

ddot did it before on woodward and van dyke in the early 90's
it didnt last, when they did van dyke no one got on but me
thing was it did go to time square as snmart did

[JenniferL]

I absolutely hate changing buses at the Fairgrounds, so this is great news for me.

[Gistok]

I remember 30 years ago taking the "Cadillac Express" bus.... IIRC it went from 7-Mack Shopping Center [[St. John) up Moross to Harper Ave., and followed Harper west as a local bus, until Gratiot, where it turned onto Gratiot Ave. running downtown as an express. It was a fast way downtown.

[Russix]

Why does this new transit service avoid the transit center?

[dtowncitylover]

Same bus, arrived northbound at Somerset. Driver took lunch before he left at 1:09.

Russix, I wonder if it has to do with logistics. Since all the downtown SMART and DDOT buses go there, there could've been no room left at the inn. Indeed where it ends now, is much more central to places.

[professorscott]

Indeed where it ends now, is much more central to places.

That is, I believe, the essential point. The transit center is only useful as a place to transfer between buses; it is too far from the heart of downtown to be useful as an endpoint. The Reflex downtown terminal is within a short walk of many more jobs.

Either location would be about equally accessible to the PeopleMover, so I think the relatively better walkability [[in terms of distance to employment) was the tipping point. Plus, honestly, the Gratiot buses would have to get through or around downtown to get to RPTC, which adds unnecessary minutes to the trip.

[Russix]

That is, I believe, the essential point. The transit center is only useful as a place to transfer between buses; it is too far from the heart of downtown to be useful as an endpoint. The Reflex downtown terminal is within a short walk of many more jobs.

Either location would be about equally accessible to the PeopleMover, so I think the relatively better walkability [[in terms of distance to employment) was the tipping point. Plus, honestly, the Gratiot buses would have to get through or around downtown to get to RPTC, which adds unnecessary minutes to the trip.

So proximity to downtown employment priority over connection to existing ridership?

[professorscott]

So proximity to downtown employment priority over connection to existing ridership?

The thinking behind this kind of service is that you are trying to attract people who wouldn't typically ride the bus, so you make it as convenient as you can for your core expected passengers, who are people going to work or to cultural things in midtown/downtown. They aren't likely to transfer to another bus, or at least so the transpo journal articles tell us, so with that calculus, downtown and midtown are your destinations, and RPTC would be a minimally-useful and minute-chewing side trip.

Given the 45 minute headways, it will be interesting to see how successful it is. By contrast, the new DDOT 95/96 run on 30 minute [[or so) headways and only at peak hours. This will make a nice little comparison study down the road a piece, if anyone cares to do it

[Russix]

The thinking behind this kind of service is that you are trying to attract people who wouldn't typically ride the bus, so you make it as convenient as you can for your core expected passengers, who are people going to work or to cultural things in midtown/downtown. They aren't likely to transfer to another bus, or at least so the transpo journal articles tell us, so with that calculus, downtown and midtown are your destinations, and RPTC would be a minimally-useful and minute-chewing side trip.

Given the 45 minute headways, it will be interesting to see how successful it is. By contrast, the new DDOT 95/96 run on 30 minute [[or so) headways and only at peak hours. This will make a nice little comparison study down the road a piece, if anyone cares to do it

I understand that they are trying to re-attract "choice riders". I just feel that it should be attractive and useful to people who ride buses too.

[dtowncitylover]

A write-up in the Free Press about the service. I laugh at the union! Wealthy suburbanites?! Give me a frickin' break! They obviously don't know their ridership. Just because it goes to Somerset doesn't mean it's for rich people. It's not going from Cranbrook to Somerset for pete's sake!

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...comb/90350598/

[Hypestyles]

Hopefully this will continue and be part of the regular transit options for everyone.