Former State Rep Rashida Tlaib Removed by Police at Trump Cobo Event

**Bham1982** · August-11-16, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by southen

This Hillary gun rhetoric is brought to you by the same people who said Obama was going to destroy the 2nd Amendment every week of his Presidency. It is a false claim perpetrated by the NRA which has bolstered gun sales and rallied pro gun people around an issue that frankly doesn't exist. Trump says it at every rally without any proof whatsoever and no people repeat it here as if it were fact.

Yeah, I don't get it. How do these people get up and tie their shoes in the morning?

How can any sentient, functional human being seriously believe this complete idiocy? They really think the world police in their black helicopters are coming to take away their guns?

**Wesley Mouch** · August-11-16, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by MSUguy

If more your're concerned about being classy to a bigot than the protesting and confronting the bigot you may want reevaluate your values. Reading belle isles complaints I can't help but think this MLK quote:

"I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

King mades great points. And I agree to a great extent. But its a matter of balance.

Is every grievance one which requires protest? Do we now fall into becoming nothing but snipers who attack each other over real and perceived slights?

Protest is valid. Disruption is not.

Are there threats that require acts like occupying freeways? Sure.

Yet letting everyone with a grievance disrupt others isn't productive.

In the end, it'll get settled at the ballot box.

**gvidas** · August-11-16, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Protest is valid. Disruption is not.

The point of protest is to call attention to an issue. One is essentially saying, "I support this issue."

The point of a disruptive protest is to call attention to the fact that the issue in question is itself disruptive. Or, "this issue is more disruptive of our lives than our protest is of yours."

**G-DDT** · August-11-16, 11:25 PM

Yeah, there were candor-filled Republicans shouting at an already elected official [[Obama-"You Lie!") in a setting that requires a better sense of diplomacy.

This is different.

I respect her for this. There is just a certain kind of mischief I see in culture jamming and disruption I can almost condone, seeing as our government has been doing it for a very long time with Cointelpro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPROand the 1st Amendment activities of many groups such as labor, civil rights, all the way to the Occupy movement. I don't mind when draft files get burned or a group steals FBI files in Media, PA [[of a non-national security level) that expose skunk activities.

Yeah, it is funny to mention Vincent Foster and not look at lives of those killed [[oh, I'm sorry-"suicide"https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/01/enro-j28.html) during Enron..

Also, I find it funny folks on DY still quote "enlightened" "good men" like Volatire on the issue of freedom when he would want to suppress religion and really dis support racism and slavery [[though Wikipedia fudges about this)http://oodegr.co/english/atheismos/diafwt_ratsism.htm.

**G-DDT** · August-12-16, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by MSUguy

If more your're concerned about being classy to a bigot than the protesting and confronting the bigot you may want reevaluate your values. Reading belle isles complaints I can't help but think this MLK quote:

"I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

My faith requires i avoid that which is disorderly, and that is why I want to stress that the words I used above were "almost condone".

I know to go and deface a billboard is to vandalize privately owned property in a rented location, so I wouldn't go and do such a thing, yet, if said billboard is a backward lie supporting an ugly, faceless entity that has a formidable stranglehold on civilization, I can't help but smile and say "right on!" [[like this guy after a disruptionhttp://gifsoup.com/view/321349/professor-flitwick.html) if someone else were to do it.

Point is: there is no real way one can protest or be civilly disobedient without it causing some disruption. Disrupting the lives of the citizens [[be it in their necessary commute or sabotaging a website that may affect them-like say an online sales outlet that they still rely on for grocery money.) is wrong, but if it rattles bastards in their own contained setting...I can't help but smirk. Better still, if it is done in a way that does not discredit the greater movement [[which is why I get sick of pretentious counter-intuitive presentations-like the folks who laid down naked in coffins in front of a Royal Oak furrier, or emphasis on targeted symbolic effigy-ism). So, yeah, be like Hank Hill and disrupt a Mega-lo Mart with Kazoo parade.

The quote MSU used from MLK is accurate. He had Uncle Toms on one side telling him not to rock the boat [["because he's just getting around to ask Mr. Jenkins-whose been good to him lately-to buy him a new toilet brush") and extremists saying he wasn't doing enough [[and all they were doing was making it harder on the greater cause with their violence and violent rhetoric). Truly MLK was beset on all sides, but it pangs me from my own faith standpoint to know that one of those "don't rock the boat" types was a priest named Albert Foley, who made some strides in de-segregating and did resist the KKK [[which would've targeted him anyway), only to criticize King for being more direct action to a point that would "jeopardizing his own cause".

**G-DDT** · August-12-16, 01:53 AM

Hiliary has said many times in speeches that she has no intention of taking away anyone's precious little human perforaters.

Also, despite what dozens of disreputably ugly [[and easily discreditable) news outlets online [[that get top search prominence) would have you think, Khizr Khan, was just as outspoken [[as dozens of representatives of the Muslim faith have been in the past) about how terrorism is not the same as Islam. He also discredited Sharia Law and deems it much the way many can look back on the Pharisaic code of Jesus's time as being a terrible aggregation of harsh top-heavy law-encrusted nonsense that strays heavily [[if not bureaucratically to a degree) from the original core beliefhttp://www.newshounds.us/hannity_con...zr_khan_080916.

Read the ugly hate you find in the comments sections of Youtube [[like with this video-which I will post again-discrediting an NRA "security expert" who thinks Dearborn-where I live-has been "overtaken"-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2Qb1KVJZg) and the media outlets or even the exact same pinned accounts of stupid Memes on Pinterest. You either got lots of pig-ignorant, panic-spoon-fed rednecks with access to computers, or this is all the efforts coming from the same dozen guys working around the clock in at lest half a dozen techno-saboteur institutes each spoofing accounts and disseminating FUD towards certain faiths [[much like the trolls of Olgino https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolls_from_Olgino-because that is "only happening over there", right?) on every online source. Just google "Snopes" and "Dearborn" and you will get a lot of disprovable and far-flung rumors about Muslims in Dearborn. Which just goes to show how much noone really gets us here in Michigan, Detroit, or even Dearborn, yet, Trump came here with a cloud of flies clamoring for such BS.

Also, as much as I respect the views of some DYers here, I still maintain that the legitimacy of the faiths of certain terrorists were lacking http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...do-killer.htmland http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/mohame...-nice-suspect/.

Also, despite the inference of other DY users, there are those online that suggest that the Dallas cop-sniper used to be a Christian Rapper. Compare that to the generalizations that could be made to Bundy's militia disruption, a Pro-lifer attacking a Planned Parenthood in Colorado, Dylann Roof and his definite affiliations to white supremacy [[hmmm...is Trump well supported by such groups?), the Kalamazoo Uber driver "wanting to make America great again", and the vet in Houston who was a Trump supporter that unloaded a barrage of bullets at police on Memorial Day weekend.

My what a busy year it has been.

**Zacha341** · August-12-16, 07:43 AM

I am an independent, but for the record the 'You Lie' interruption during president Obama's talk at the September 2009 joint session of Congress came from a specific republican [[Joe Wilson).

His clearly rude outburst was criticized by many republicans as inappropriate. It certainly was -- they had to distance themselves from it.

Who even remembers what Wilson was challenging the president about! Only the 'You Lie' stupidity is recalled! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Wilson_[[U.S._politician)

Originally Posted by G-DDT

Yeah, there were candor-filled Republicans shouting at an already elected official [[Obama-"You Lie!") in a setting that requires a better sense of diplomacy.

**belleislerunner** · August-12-16, 08:15 AM

I forgot about the "You Lie" incident -great analogy.

I think every speech Obama makes going forward should be interrupted at least 10 times by Republicans screaming to lock up Hillary and Democrats screaming back that Republicans are racist and need to check their privilege.

We'd hate to limit someone's freedom to be disruptive and make a donkey of themselves.

**Zacha341** · August-12-16, 08:27 AM

^^^ Hah! I am comforted that only the repubs operate from a position of privilege!

**Honky Tonk** · August-12-16, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Hillary is pro 2nd amendment? You must be joking. Her husband obviously hated firearms, Hillary seems just like him or worse.

Shillary is very Pro 2nd Amendment, Shillary is very Pro gun control. Shillary is for the Iraqi war and Shillary is against it. Shillary is anti-abortion and Shillary is Pro Choice. Shillary is against fossil fuels, but Shillary is Pro coal. Shillary supports TPP and Shillary is anti TPP. Shillary never had State secrets on her server. Shillary only used one device. Shillary and Bill, have a net worth of over $100 mil, and understand the working people. Shillary believes in fair and free elections, which is why Shillary supports Bernie Sanders. Shillary is anti big business, Shillary hired former Monsanto lobbyist as her campaign manager, no strings attached.

If none of this sends up any red flags for anyone, they must be brain dead and watch too many sports.

**southen** · August-12-16, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

I forgot about the "You Lie" incident -great analogy.

I think every speech Obama makes going forward should be interrupted at least 10 times by Republicans screaming to lock up Hillary and Democrats screaming back that Republicans are racist and need to check their privilege.

We'd hate to limit someone's freedom to be disruptive and make a donkey of themselves.

Keep ignoring the vile coming out Trump's mouth to make absurd comparisons. Show me a Democrat saying the same types of things and I will gladly support any Republican protesting them as vigorously as Trump is being protested. Problem is you can't.

**Zacha341** · August-12-16, 08:38 AM

For me the 'You Lie' example reference is in ADDITION to [[not in defense of) Trump-foolery and his dumb comments. You think he'd take a hint......

But hey he presents smoother sailing for Mrs. Clinton. The tsunami of Trump is so tall and broad who can be beyond it??

What must it be to feel obligated to defend either of these sterling candidates? Meh...

**Bham1982** · August-12-16, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Shillary is very Pro 2nd Amendment, Shillary is very Pro gun control.

The fact that you think these points are contradictory shows why you're a Trump stooge.

You don't even understand the 2nd Amendment, or gun control. The 2nd Amendment absolutely allows rigorous gun control; in fact the Constitution essentially mandates it. If anything, it's the NRA that is against the 2nd Amendment.

No Constitutional amendment allows for unlimited rights. This is very clear, and repeatedly affirmed by both Conservatives and Liberals on the Supreme Court. There is no sane legal argument for blanket opposition to increased gun oversight.

**1953** · August-12-16, 08:47 AM

For the record, I'm an independent, and I also think that interrupting a speech to an economic club is classless, even if the speaker says things you don't especially like.

1953

**Honky Tonk** · August-12-16, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

The fact that you think these points are contradictory shows why you're a Trump stooge.

You don't even understand the 2nd Amendment, or gun control. The 2nd Amendment absolutely allows rigorous gun control; in fact the Constitution essentially mandates it. If anything, it's the NRA that is against the 2nd Amendment.

No Constitutional amendment allows for unlimited rights. This is very clear, and repeatedly affirmed by both Conservatives and Liberals on the Supreme Court. There is no sane legal argument for blanket opposition to increased gun oversight.

Shillary would want you to defend her. Monsanto will send you a can of untested pest spray and a jar of dead bees, delivered by a now bankrupt farmer.

**G-DDT** · August-12-16, 08:52 AM

Why can't it be like the good old days...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legisl...#United_States
[[notice it picked up again a year before Obama got elected and one after, both with Repubs and Dems name-calling and ready to buck.).

**Zacha341** · August-12-16, 09:02 AM

What happened to the farmer?! Did he 'buy the farm' from the estate taxing laws heading ever downward by our esteemed politicians?

Wasn't that just to get those ultra rich folks? The government knows better what to do with your families inheritance than you!!!

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Shillary would want you to defend her. Monsanto will send you a can of untested pest spray and a jar of dead bees, delivered by a now bankrupt farmer.

**Zacha341** · August-12-16, 09:06 AM

How terribly tolerant of you! ---

--- I agree.

Originally Posted by 1953

For the record, I'm an independent, and I also think that interrupting a speech to an economic club is classless, even if the speaker says things you don't especially like.

**Honky Tonk** · August-12-16, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

What happened to the farmer?! Did he 'buy the farm' from the estate taxing laws heading ever downward by our esteemed politicians?

Wasn't that just to get those ultra rich folks? The government knows better what to do with your families inheritance than you!!!

Monsanto has a history of successfully suing into oblivion, farmers who refuse to use Monsanto products, and later Monsanto finds plants growing, [[wind, pollination, animal dung transfer, etc.) on their property, that they can trace the genetic structure as being one of their seeds.

**Wesley Mouch** · August-12-16, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by southen

Keep ignoring the vile coming out Trump's mouth to make absurd comparisons. Show me a Democrat saying the same types of things and I will gladly support any Republican protesting them as vigorously as Trump is being protested. Problem is you can't.

Now remember I don't like Trump, and expect to vote for Hillary...

But I do have to say that while Trump says stupid things, they are not as 'vile' as you say, IMO.

Take the gun control statement. I do think it was a badly done joke. It was certainly not intended [[to my ears) to be a call to take action. Did you watch the actual tape of this? Its clearly an off-the-cuff comment. But its reported like it was a 'vile' comment.

I still predict a Trump win. Until now, I've thought that Trump needed to 'straighten up'. Turn Presidential. Act like an adult now.

I've come to believe that Trump is right in his read of the public mood. They're mad as hell at the Media-Political Complex, and they're not going to take it any more.

Trump may have been just a little too early. But what he's uncorked isn't going back in the bottle. And I suspect that the pollsters from the MPC have crystal balls that don't include the disenfranchised. Obama won because he tapped into feelings of black disenfranchisement. Trump's betting that political disenfranchisement is a broader movement than is appears. I think he's right.

But back to the points, I found State Attorney Marilyn Mosby's comments on race in Baltimore to be vile. And they were intended.

**Bham1982** · August-12-16, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Now remember I don't like Trump, and expect to vote for Hillary...

I have no doubt you're voting for Trump, based on your responses in this thread. You fit his voter profile to a T.

**Honky Tonk** · August-12-16, 11:14 AM

Trump is a loudmouth, and blurts out what he's thinking, without thinking. Shillary, on the other hand, says whatever anyone wants to hear, or just goes with the flavor of the day. People post "with Hillary, you know what you're getting". No, I don't think you do. She's a liar, a flip-flopper, and a corporate concubine. She'll say and do anything to get elected.

**Enduro** · August-12-16, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

My point is you have to respect the office of the presidency, even if you don't respect the person who holds that office.

I'm sorry, I slept late today. Did I miss the part where Donald Trump was elected president of the United States? Also, did I dream that Trump called the sitting president the "founder" of ISIS? Or that Trump says "lots of people" are saying that he wasn't born in the United States? Or when Trump said Obama has failed the country?

So much respect. The best respect. One of the all time great respecters, that Trump. I wonder why he choose to unveil his national economic policy in a private club. They had the right to kick them out but they had a right to make a scene. Cry me a bleepin' river.

**Zacha341** · August-12-16, 01:30 PM

^^^I think he meant as in presidential 'nominee', not a sitting president. Further, I doubt Trump will be the next president he's make to clear of a path for Mrs. Clinton!

**BankruptcyGuy** · August-12-16, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

The fact that you think these points are contradictory shows why you're a Trump stooge.

You don't even understand the 2nd Amendment, or gun control. The 2nd Amendment absolutely allows rigorous gun control; in fact the Constitution essentially mandates it. If anything, it's the NRA that is against the 2nd Amendment.

No Constitutional amendment allows for unlimited rights. This is very clear, and repeatedly affirmed by both Conservatives and Liberals on the Supreme Court. There is no sane legal argument for blanket opposition to increased gun oversight.

Uh, just as a devil's advocate here, in two of the largest cities in the country, Democratic legislators banned handguns. It took the Supreme Court to overturn that ban.

Mrs. Clinton has come out publicly opposed to the results of those cases. See also, http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/ar...g-adviser-says

So, if Mrs. Clinton gets her way, and Heller is overturned, handgun bans will go back into effect, and handguns will be illegal. People who live in affected areas will have to turn in their guns.

So it's not really a stretch at all to say the Mrs. Clinton is in favor of handgun bans. And unless we stay in the Clintonian world of wondering what "is" is, she is opposed to the way the 2nd amendment is currently interpreted.

Her argument is kind of like saying that you're in favor of the Sixth Amendment, but not the requirement that states pay for public defenders. That right didn't exist for over 100 years, but the Supreme Court read it in gradually [[Powell v. Alabama, 287 U.S. 45 [[1932) [["special circumstances" in capital cases); Johnson v. Zerbst, 304 U.S. 458 [[1938) [[all federal cases); Betts v. Brady, 316 U.S. 455 [[1942) [[“special circumstances” in non-capital cases); Hamilton v. Alabama, 368 U.S. 52 [[1961) [[all capital cases); Gideon v. Wainwright, 372 U.S. 335 [[1963) [[all felony cases), overruling Betts, 316 U.S. 455; Argersinger v. Hamlin, 407 U.S. 25 [[1972) [[all actual imprisonment); Alabama v. Shelton, 535 U.S. 654 [[2002) [[suspended sentences). The two go together now. You're not "pro 2nd amendment" if you're "anti" handgun ownership. [[There are other examples on the other side of the aisle as well.)

But this is the political silly season--I guess candidates can spew whatever line of crap they'd like, and I'm not sure it will really move the needle.