Baby College

[maxx]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=94977387

Harlem parents learn the basics of parenting.

[ziggyselbin]

I heard this today Maxx. Kind of sad that no one is responding. It did get me to thinking how difficult it is to break the culture of poverty and if enough is being done. I hope people here follow the link you provided it is worth it.

[gazhekwe]

Thanks for posting this story. I heard part of it when it was on the radio and it sounds good. I particularly liked the references to the plans for the future. It will be interesting to follow the progress.

[ccbatson]

Sad that this is seen as necessary...clarification is needed on the time frame...the degradation described did not immediately follow the civil war, it followed FDR's new deal entitlements that established a nanny state making the responsibility and consequences of multiple teen [[really childhood) pregnancy a non issue.

[ziggyselbin]

Fred Siegel of the Manhattan institute and the progressive institute and a prof at cooper-union in ny agrres with your theory but not the time frame bats.

His claim is that entitlement really began in the years of the great society. Prior to that poor that people moved from the south to the north were taught by established family/ friends what was acceptable behavior; i.e. social capital was important it was beneficial to act right. Then came the great society and gov't interference in what once was the domain of the established culture. I am working from memory as I could not find a link to his book but I am close on his take on things.

However, what difference does it make now? And this baby college is a great idea.

[gazhekwe]

The degradation is unfortunately related to conditions that have existed continuously in Euroculture. You might call it class, in the US there has been a good smattering of race. Poverty is the key, no one wants to spend any money to help those who seem to be lost in a swamp of ignorance, and have no money or resources to help themselves. [It is not limited to Euroculture, but that is our base culture.]

As described in the interview by Mr. Canada, occasionally a few of the lost souls may hit on some luck and make their way to solid ground. This gives the impression that if they could do it, anyone could, further reinforcing the opinion that helping them would be futile. It is a sad commentary on what has been the wealthiest nation in the world that we cannot solve this problem.

His description of teaching early parenting skills as a means of providing a more solid foundation for the young was very hopeful and enlightening. It isn't costly, and seems to be a good early intervention in continuous downward swirl. If we can break the cycle early, maybe we can save money in the long run.

I have seen such interventions work. Three things hit my community at the same time, Head Start, Michigan Indian Tuition Waiver and the Casino Compact. We went from three college graduates up to 1972, to about 80% college starts and at least 50% graduates now. We established our own community college with associates degrees and continuing education. It took one generation. These three things contributed immensely in this way:

1. Early childhood intervention prepared children for school
2. Tuition waiver encouraged both students and the school systems to prepare for college. Prior to that, the teachers/counselors did not regard our children as "college material."
3. Casinos provided job opportunities in many fields, including personnel management, systems management, operations management and more.

We were able to establish our own health clinic, partly supported by IHS, which also provides employment. We have a charter school as well, and a gym with fitness program, construction company, and more. So, by means of family, community and school support for education, our community was able to come out of the swamp and provide employment for as many of its members as want to work there.

[ccbatson]

Whenever the onset...Socialize survival, remove responsibility from parents [[where it should be) and there is no incentive to provide for your own children....it is an evil attack on minorities thanks to??? Liberal socialists [[Obama being the highest ranking member at the moment). Ironic, no?

[gazhekwe]

Bats, read the interview, Baby college teaches parenting skills to new parents to be. Also needed, to teach schools systems to regard minority students or others from a poverty background as worthy of prepping for college.

[ccbatson]

Proper skills according to whom? Paid for by whom? These are basic and largely intuitive skills that should be learned from common sense and resources outside of nanny government [[literally nanny in this case).

Regarding the comment that school systems need to be taught that minorities are worthy of a good education...just plain racist, well intentioned, but racist. All individuals should have access to [[but not be provided by decree and using resources stolen from others) the opportunity for quality education.

[gazhekwe]

Baats, Baats, come out of the dark.... Who is talking about "proper" anything? If you wish to research the types of teaching, read the article.

In case you didn't know it, so called "common sense" is an ethnocentric concept. Each ethnic group will have a different perspective. The urban ethos has no concept of woods common sense, and the tiny village ethos has no concept of street sense. People raised in communities with absent parents have no concept of parenting.

The truth about differential education:

People in charge of setting up and providing education have often been raised in a community of plenty, where they were provided at least with the Maslow level of needs with no worries. They had the support to get through at least four years of higher education. They set up the systems to educate people like themselves, and as such are more than adequate to the purpose. Incoming students who do not come from similar backgrounds or who are challenged in some way definitely challenge the system. While this includes many students who are not ethnic or racial minorities, it has been habitual for the mainstream educational system to sweep minority students into the same corner as a group.

As a minority student who was an achiever, I saw plenty of this sweeping aside of my fellow students. Although I was avery good student, there was always doubt that I would ever go to college. My A grades and creativity were always viewed with surprise by my teachers. Moving from the location where I was part of the visible minority group to Detroit, where my group was not recognized, and a different minority group was key, was eye opening. I saw those students swept into the same corner I had occupied in my former school, while I fell into the mainstream group.

My subsequent studies reiterated what I had seen, though never applied to this country, always pointing out in other countries how this process worked.

[ccbatson]

Nah..common sense is based on perception of reality which is universal/an absolute.

[vetalalumni]

Although I was a very good student, there was always doubt that I would ever go to college. My A grades and creativity were always viewed with surprise by my teachers

So very poignant your experience must have been. Your academic accomplishments should have been firstly championed and celebrated. The focus should have been on your academic achievements, not how surprised the teacher was, apparently repeatedly. The surprise is relatively irrelevant to teaching and learning.

"common sense" is a shared understanding, if you will. A consensus of sensibilities. Necessarily proper or even accurate - no. The Charles Manson tribe had a common sense among that group, as did the Heaven's Gate.

Dr. Canada represents a sort of throwback. Both Ellison and Baldwin would be proud.

[gazhekwe]

Right. As further illustration, I am bringing this from the Paging Gazhekwe thread on Connections. It illustrates two perspectives on Education. It is interesting that the Six Nations chiefs could respect what they had been offered while not seeing any utility in their current community. From Letters of a Nation:

On June 17, 1744, the commissioners from Maryland and Virginia negotiated a treaty with Indians of the Six Nations at Lancaster, Pennsylvania. The Indians were invited to send boys to William and Mary College. The next day they declined the offer as follows:

We know that you highly esteem the kind of learning taught in those Colleges, and the Maintenance of our young Men, while with you, would be very expensive to you. We are convinced, that you mean to do us Good by your Proposal; and we thank you heartily. But you, who are wise must know that different Nations have different Conceptions of things and you will therefore not take it amiss, if our Ideas of this kind of Education happen not to be the same as yours. We have had some experience of it. Several of our Young People were formerly brought up at the Colleges of the Northern Provinces; they were instructed in all your Sciences; but, when they came back to us, they were bad Runners, ignorant of every means of living in the woods . . . neither fit for Hunters, Warriors, nor Counsellors, they were totally good for nothing. We are, however, not the less oblig’d by your kind Offer, tho’ we decline accepting it; and, to show our grateful Sense of it, if the Gentlemen of Virginia will send us a Dozen of their Sons, we will take Care of their Education, instruct them in all we know, and make Men of them.
Link to the book site: http://lettersofanation.com/

[elganned]

Nah..common sense is based on perception of reality which is universal/an absolute.

"The only thing less common than common sense is common courtesy."

Empirical evidence refutes your assertion, CC. If perception of reality were an absolute, we wouldn't have any debates over health care, socialism, gun rights, or anything else.

As my grandfather once told me, "If every man was looking for the same thing in a woman, they'd all be after your grandmother."

[vetalalumni]

We know that you highly esteem the kind of learning taught in those Colleges, and the Maintenance of our young Men, while with you, would be very expensive to you. We are convinced, that you mean to do us Good by your Proposal; and we thank you heartily. But you, who are wise must know that different Nations have different Conceptions of things and you will therefore not take it amiss, if our Ideas of this kind of Education happen not to be the same as yours. We have had some experience of it. Several of our Young People were formerly brought up at the Colleges of the Northern Provinces; they were instructed in all your Sciences; but, when they came back to us, they were bad Runners, ignorant of every means of living in the woods . . . neither fit for Hunters, Warriors, nor Counsellors, they were totally good for nothing. We are, however, not the less oblig’d by your kind Offer, tho’ we decline accepting it; and, to show our grateful Sense of it, if the Gentlemen of Virginia will send us a Dozen of their Sons, we will take Care of their Education, instruct them in all we know, and make Men of them.
Link to the book site: http://lettersofanation.com/

Profound. And reciprocal in good will. Words mean almost everything. The Gentlemen of Virginia would have been wise to have found interested and willing young people [[a Dozen of their Sons), and respectfully sent them.

[jams]

Nah..common sense is based on perception of reality which is universal/an absolute.

So, everyone knows to how to drive on the right side?

[ccbatson]

Love, lust, habit, none of these qualities are central to the perception of reality. Reality itself is the absolute, rational thought leads to uniform perception of reality. Irrational thought does not.

[gazhekwe]

Ya see, CC, the realities are different for you and your children than they are for the parents and children in the impoverished communities this program is addressing.

[ccbatson]

No, they are the same. Reality is reality [[A is A).

[gazhekwe]

Well, if it is the same reality, I challenge you to find a family in Harlem to trade places with you. You live their life for a week, and they can live yours.

Of course, you will, to some extent, bring your reality with you, as will they, so you will each have advantages and disadvantages of your own reality, while trying to understand the others' reality.

[vetalalumni]

... find a family in Harlem to trade places with you. You live their life for a week, and they can live yours.

Of course, you will, to some extent, bring your reality with you, as will they, so you will each have advantages and disadvantages of your own reality, while trying to understand the others' reality.

Empathy [[not guessing or mere pity). Spot on again gazhekwe. Just spend some amount of quality time in say the East State Fair area, or even Brightmoor. Make friends and get involved with the real people who live there, but would rather not. Their hearts beat [[often broken, but not totally destroyed), their brains function [[often dysfunctional, but not nearly always or terminally), and most would overlook their own personal pain to welcome and protect you. These also are patriots and forms of American exceptionalism [[literal). You, gazhekwe, obviously understand this - thank you.

Guessing does not work, especially without empathy. In this context, your greatest gift [[value) is self.

[gazhekwe]

Vetalumni, I understand because I have lived in these worlds. I appreciate you picking up on the strangeness of having academic and community achievements viewed with astonishment from one reality, while those astonished ones respond completely differently to the achievements than they do with similar situations in their own reality. IE, Their reality, achievement leads to scholarship tracks, counseling about college choices and career information, vs surprise and praise for being "different" if the good acts were by someone in the other reality.

[ccbatson]

Why would I trade my life/lifestyle, my individual property, my rights, for anything Gaz?

[gazhekwe]

Did anyone ask you to trade anything? Well, since you seem to think there is a trade involved, at least you can see SOME difference between what you have and what these people have. A tiny baby step more, and you will see that your lifestyle impacts your view of reality differently than their lifestyle would.

[ccbatson]

Trade as in give up, or compromise my sacred individual rights...never going to happen willingly.