Question for the Old Time DFD folks

**Meddle** · July-21-16, 09:32 PM

If there are any still around that is. This board used to have quite a few, but it has changed quite a bit and most of them seem to have wandered off.

My mind is kind of messed up and sometimes drifts into weird areas, so I have no idea why this came over me, but anyways ....

Back in the days of primarily telegraph signalling, prior to when telephone and later radio really took over [[30s, 40s, 50s), how were extra alarms sent out? I seem to remember it was something like 2-2-2 prior to the box number for a second alarm, 3-3-3 for a third, etc. But I can't remember how each company knew they were due. Card files in the drawers?

This may not make sense to those who don't know what it's about, but that's OK.

**cla1945** · July-22-16, 07:09 PM

2-2 then box number. 3, 4, and 5 for extra alarms. Correct about card files in the drawer.

**Honky Tonk** · July-22-16, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by cla1945

2-2 then box number. 3, 4, and 5 for extra alarms. Correct about card files in the drawer.

Wow cla1945, How old are you?

**FEO** · July-23-16, 07:36 AM

running card.pdf

There was a file box with running cards for all box locations in the city.
It was next to the watch desk
Here is one of them, you will see at the top 1-5 for Engines, 1-4 for Ladders, Battalion Chiefs & 1-2 for Squads.
Example, on 1st alarm all companies under the number 1 would respond.
But if earlier, Engine 31 went out of service for another reason then Central would send it out on the register tape. The man on watch would put engine 31 out of service on the running board.
Now if Box 3154 came in the man on watch [[at engine 10) would see that Engine 31 was out of service and engine 10 would then have to respond on 1^st alarm.
The out of service and box alarms were sent to every engine house and not to just responding companies.

2nd, 3rd and more extra alarms would come on the register tape and all companies would check the cards and their running board to see if they had to respond. Central Office would send in the alert to a responding companies but it was still up to the man on watch to check to see if they had to respond. A double check was Central would call on the department phone to verify the company responded. If it was a single house there was no answer, but if a double house and only one company was to respond the remaining one would say that they responded.
Hope this helps, I think I have it right as my memory bank is almost empty.

**cla1945** · July-23-16, 09:08 AM

Honky Tonk...not that old...City of Detroit Fire Department retiree. Worked closely with Central Office located on Macomb and the Chrysler Freeway [[long gone). I actually have two Game Well boxes and 2 brass ticker tape alarm registers the City was going to "throw away" when they tore down Central Office, 697 Macomb.

**Meddle** · July-24-16, 07:34 PM

Yeah, that's what I wasn't sure of --- knowing who was out and who was due for fill-ins, etc. The guy on the Watch Desk had to have a few wits. Most of what I was familiar with was after the radios and alert monitors.

Did the prior alert system trigger the Gong and dorm lights? Or did that come in later?

**Meddle** · July-24-16, 07:37 PM

Central was still kicking when I moved away in the late 90s, but they had gone partially to the new systems. Just wasn't the same.

I have a street box off the Southfield Freeway where the top half is the box works with a red door/white hook door and the bottom half is a telephone/citizen call box with a yellow door.

Always wanted a register, but those were hard to come by.

**Bigb23** · July-24-16, 08:24 PM

My mind is kind of messed up and sometimes drifts into weird areas, so I have no idea why this came over me, but anyways ....

Welcome to the Dyes club. That is what keeps us going.

**Ray1936** · July-24-16, 10:11 PM

Always wanted one of those old Gamewell fire alarm boxes, but every time I found one at an antique show, the price was just too darn much. But I did rescue a Gamewell police call box, complete with the telegraph guts all intact, and it hangs in the garage with a wireless phone inside. Got it years ago from the PLC warehouse at Warren & Lawton.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · July-24-16, 10:29 PM

^^ Nice collection of police dept patches Ray. How many do you have?

**FEO** · July-25-16, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Yeah, that's what I wasn't sure of --- knowing who was out and who was due for fill-ins, etc. The guy on the Watch Desk had to have a few wits. Most of what I was familiar with was after the radios and alert monitors.

Did the prior alert system trigger the Gong and dorm lights? Or did that come in later?

The gong was not in the circuit at all times, in the past it was and was very disturbing to both horses and men so it was taken out of the circuit with a switch to connect it.
A small tapper bell was in the circuit for all box alarms.
When companies went in and out of service over the register no bell was in a circuit.
When an alert came in, the lights came on from Central but the man on watch had to throw the switch to put the gong in the circuit……this was only effective if a box was coming in over the register. If Central was giving us a run by phone the man on watch would take the run and since the guys were already alerted would be set to go. The man on watch would yell, engine goes, squad, goes….everybody
Box alarm 3124 [[ with location) or maybe just engine goes with location.
Hope this helps, ask anything, if I can remember due to age will answer.
No I wasn't around when the horses were here.

**Meddle** · July-25-16, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by FEO

ask anything, if I can remember due to age will answer.
No I wasn't around when the horses were here.

When did they really start doing Specials and what did they initially cover? Later on they were just about anything that wasn't fire related; accidents, rescues, etc.

**FEO** · July-25-16, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

When did they really start doing Specials and what did they initially cover? Later on they were just about anything that wasn't fire related; accidents, rescues, etc.

I don’t know the beginning of Specials. When I started in 1962, Fire Department Rescue Squads and the Police Station Wagons handled all "Specials". The first run of the Detroit EMS was 9:41 am, June 19, 1972 . Also I don’t know if the Police assisted the Fire Department or they got their own Specials and then we assisted them.
Others on this board may have some better information.

**cla1945** · July-25-16, 12:53 PM

By the late 80's, Central Office had moved to the 6th floor at Police Headquarters, 1300 Beaubien. Computers took over a lot of the dispatching and it was quite a challenge.

**Ray1936** · July-25-16, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

^^ Nice collection of police dept patches Ray. How many do you have?

Not that many, really, about 50 or so. Here's my favorite....DPD in the middle, Nye Co., NV, on the left, and NV Highway Patrol on the right. Why them? My nephew, Duane, is a sgt. with the Nye Co. Sheriff's Dep't., and neice, Debbie, is a trooper with NHP. All in the family! [[I had the honor of pinning both their badges on during their respective Academy graduations.)

**Cincinnati_Kid** · July-26-16, 01:48 PM

^^ Good stuff..

**Meddle** · July-29-16, 02:37 PM

OK, here's another off-thought......

Outside of Headquarters, was Engine 50 the only four company house? I know Engine 5, Engine 17, Engine 53 and Engine 55 were three company houses. Probably a few more of them than I can recall right now. I'm not including EMS.

**Dumpling** · July-29-16, 03:10 PM

http://www.dfdlegacy.com/detroit-fir...ime/#more-4576

**FEO** · July-29-16, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

OK, here's another off-thought......

Outside of Headquarters, was Engine 50 the only four company house? I know Engine 5, Engine 17, Engine 53 and Engine 55 were three company houses. Probably a few more of them than I can recall right now. I'm not including EMS.

I think that you’re correct on Engine 50.
Here is some information on Headquarters at Washington Blvd & Larned
This was back in the 60s but changed throughout the years.
The companies that ran out of the Washington Blvd bays from the North end
Bay 1, Engine 1 in front, Ambulance behind it
Bay 2, Ladder 1
Bay 3, Squad 1 in front, Boat Tender 1 behind it.
The companies that ran out of the Larned bays from the East end
A variety of chiefs from Assistant Chief, Deputy Chief, Chief of Department & Fire Commissioner.

**cla1945** · July-29-16, 05:26 PM

[QUOTE=Meddle;510263]OK, here's another off-thought......

Outside of Headquarters, was Engine 50 the only four company house? I know Engine 5, Engine 17, Engine 53 and Engine 55 were three company houses. Probably a few more of them than I can recall right now. I'm not including EMS.[/QUOTE

Engine 50 at Houston-Whittier and Gratiot is about the busiest house in Detroit, 48205.

**Meddle** · July-29-16, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by FEO

Here is some information on Headquarters

I wish they had made more use of 300. It was relegated to a Command Post later, but the initial concept was something new and different. It was used to treat a few injuries, but I'm not sure if was ever fully used as intended.

**Meddle** · July-29-16, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by cla1945

Engine 50 at Houston-Whittier and Gratiot is about the busiest house

Maybe now, but I remember when E-5 had it hands down. E-6 was close for a while during a certain period.

**Meddle** · July-29-16, 06:45 PM

Another thing that always bugged me was that the whole west side would get cleaned out with one Box. E54, E53, E59, L26, S7, C11 all out at once didn't leave a lot of coverage for HF or Redford High Schools. They didn't always move fill-ins either.

And if you happened to get another Box when Brightmoor got hot, you lost E57, E55, E30 [[or E49), L25, S5, C2. That was damn near everything west of Livernois.

**kathy2trips** · July-30-16, 01:47 AM

[QUOTE=cla1945;510271]

Originally Posted by Meddle

OK, here's another off-thought......

Outside of Headquarters, was Engine 50 the only four company house? I know Engine 5, Engine 17, Engine 53 and Engine 55 were three company houses. Probably a few more of them than I can recall right now. I'm not including EMS.[/QUOTE

Engine 50 at Houston-Whittier and Gratiot is about the busiest house in Detroit, 48205.

I'd like to know that, too. This is 100% fascinating! I wouldn't mind hearing about any epic historic fires, also, that any of you have memories [[or even 2nd hand stories) about.

**FEO** · July-30-16, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Another thing that always bugged me was that the whole west side would get cleaned out with one Box. E54, E53, E59, L26, S7, C11 all out at once didn't leave a lot of coverage for HF or Redford High Schools. They didn't always move fill-ins either.

And if you happened to get another Box when Brightmoor got hot, you lost E57, E55, E30 [[or E49), L25, S5, C2. That was damn near everything west of Livernois.

The busiest fire houses or even the busiest areas have changed though out the years. In the 60s the busiest were all inside the Grand Blvd area while the outskirts were the slowest. As the years passed and the fires increased, the outskirts became the busiest. If you google Detroit maps you will see whole areas when there are no homes left to burn. Years ago those outskirt companies filled in at the Grand Blvd area, now it’s just the reverse. By filling in I mean an inner city Fire Company would be sent by Central Office to respond to an outskirts company’s fire house to protect that area for a faster response. They would run out of their firehouse until that company came back in service from their fire.
It’s a good system.