Finally DTE Breaking Ground For Their New Park

[emu steve]

Should help Grand River, which needs help in that area.

It would be really nice if someone would [[could) do something with the blocks on the other side of the street, i.e., the couple blocks along Grand River which intersect with W. Elizabeth and Cass.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...arks/86405596/

[mikeg19]

If only someone did something with that sea of parking lots directly to the north of the park, western downtown wouldn't look like a freaking wasteland........

[belleislerunner]

Is there any reason to go west of Woodward? I used to visit Park Bar when Burcharest Grill was in that building - but given their move to Jefferson - can't think of a solid reason to even go to west downtown. It needs some loving. And that Village Green apartment complex to spur some life.

But the park will be nice - modeled after one in Boston - glad to see we're going world class with the parks/riverwalk and not just a slab of grass in an intersection. I'm looking at you Roosevelt Park.

[royce]

If only someone did something with that sea of parking lots directly to the north of the park, western downtown wouldn't look like a freaking wasteland........

Well, had speculators and hold outs not screw up the purchase of the land for the new Red Wings arena in that area, that problem would have been solved. Grand River south of I-75 should have a string of buildings, not parking lots and parks. Not sold that this park should go there, given the fact that DTE has so much land it already uses for green space. Actually, the area right in front of its headquarters on Bagley would have been ideal for this park. However, since no one saw the need to put a building on this spot [[office or residential), a park is better than nothing.

[emu steve]

Well, had speculators and hold outs not screw up the purchase of the land for the new Red Wings arena in that area, that problem would have been solved. Grand River south of I-75 should have a string of buildings, not parking lots and parks. Not sold that this park should go there, given the fact that DTE has so much land it already uses for green space. Actually, the area right in front of its headquarters on Bagley would have been ideal for this park. However, since no one saw the need to put a building on this spot [[office or residential), a park is better than nothing.

I agree with the post and the other posts.

A green park looks better than nothing. DTE is trying to be good to the neighborhood, but they can't do it all.

I don't know who owns the land across Grand River, but as suggested it isn't like that general area is alive, dynamic and where folks want to build office or residential buildings.

As we've discussed many times, development [[i.e., arena) north or south of the Fisher was always going to be a 'zero sum' decision: ONE, but NOT both areas, either behind the Fox OR north of the Fisher would become hot and the other would remain as cold as a January night in Detroit.

What would be nice is if in years ahead, whenever that might be, that there would be a desire to build on Grand River generally across from the DTE park. That would really help the appearance of Grand River.

It would be nice to see some buildings on Montcalm along the service drive to improve the appearance from that view. I still assume we'll see a parking garage Montcalm/Clifford before the arena opens and maybe some spillover development nearest the arena. But Grand River needs a lot of love.

[MSUguy]

Is there any reason to go west of Woodward? I used to visit Park Bar when Burcharest Grill was in that building - but given their move to Jefferson - can't think of a solid reason to even go to west downtown. It needs some loving. And that Village Green apartment complex to spur some life.
.

Really? There are no worthwhile businesses west of Woodward? The afore mentioned Park Bar, Town Pump Cliffs Bells, Cafe Dmongos, Roast seem like solid reasons to me.

[Zads07]

The giant sea of parking lots behind the Fox, most of them are owned by Olympia Development.

Between Grand River, Fisher Service Drive, Park Ave. and Adams:
85 parcels
37 of which are owned by Olympia Development of MI LLC

That doesn't include what could be a separate Olympia entity under a different LLC name, such as the Loyal Order of the Moose Building [[Moose Building LLC). Just my guess that it's an Olympia entity.

[emu steve]

The giant sea of parking lots behind the Fox, most of them are owned by Olympia Development.

Between Grand River, Fisher Service Drive, Park Ave. and Adams:
85 parcels
37 of which are owned by Olympia Development of MI LLC

That doesn't include what could be a separate Olympia entity under a different LLC name, such as the Loyal Order of the Moose Building [[Moose Building LLC). Just my guess that it's an Olympia entity.

I hear you. There should be LITTLE doubt that Olympia owns a LOT of land in that area. It was obviously obtained for the purpose of building an arena there. Park and Cass were assumed to be the east/west boundaries for a new arena.

My main focus would be in the area WEST of Cass [[triangular Cass/Grand River/Fisher) and also the land north [[bordered) by Montcalm [[Fisher service drive).

Why? The street wall along Grand River is very important. The street wall along the Fisher service drive is very important. The rest is kind of like the 'hole in the donut.'

My question and I have no idea what the answer is: Does Olympia own the area west of Cass? Was it part of an 'arena district'? What's likely to happen with that land?

[Bham1982]

Why? The street wall along Grand River is very important. The street wall along the Fisher service drive is very important. The rest is kind of like the 'hole in the donut.'

What streetwall? Everything from the financial district to the freeway is nothing but parking lots and dead/suburban space.

The Grand River streetwall was demolished during the 1950's/60's, during the urban renewal craze. This was Detroit's skid row of "welfare hotels" and the like. Nowadays it's all gone.

[401don]

I hear you. There should be LITTLE doubt that Olympia owns a LOT of land in that area. It was obviously obtained for the purpose of building an arena there. Park and Cass were assumed to be the east/west boundaries for a new arena.

My main focus would be in the area WEST of Cass [[triangular Cass/Grand River/Fisher) and also the land north [[bordered) by Montcalm [[Fisher service drive).

Why? The street wall along Grand River is very important. The street wall along the Fisher service drive is very important. The rest is kind of like the 'hole in the donut.'

My question and I have no idea what the answer is: Does Olympia own the area west of Cass? Was it part of an 'arena district'? What's likely to happen with that land?

Those lots were purchased 20 yrs. ago to build the new ballpark. At the last minute they decided to go east of Woodward. You can talk about the economy, lack of demand, etc. but you can bet Dan Gilbert would not have left those lots sitting that long without at least proper surfacing, landscaping, some temporary structures, etc. to make them more aesthetically pleasing.

[1953]

I would suggest to DTE that their park might better thrive by activating the streetscape first, or at least by not setting their campus tightly among fences, ala a security compound.

It would help, too, if some of the buildings surrounding this "park" actually faced it in any way.

1953

[Gistok]

A rather dated [[2011) map of west of Woodward Ilitch owned properties.... you can zoom in...

http://verifiable-truth.blogspot.com...%20Development

[bust]

A rather dated [[2011) map of west of Woodward Ilitch owned properties.... you can zoom in...

http://verifiable-truth.blogspot.com...%20Development

Some little birdie ought to whisper in the ear of his uncle that since he clearly isn't going to do anything with those properties, he should make them available, at affordable prices, to developers with good ideas for them. It's about time, after all these decades of neglect.

[emu steve]

Some little birdie ought to whisper in the ear of his uncle that since he clearly isn't going to do anything with those properties, he should make them available, at affordable prices, to developers with good ideas for them. It's about time, after all these decades of neglect.

It will be fascinating what the Ilitches do with all of that property.

I'd think they'd be glad to rid themselves of it. From the posts in this thread, that land was acquired first for a baseball stadium and later for a hockey arena.

As such that land isn't needed for those purposes.

[emu steve]

Some little birdie ought to whisper in the ear of his uncle that since he clearly isn't going to do anything with those properties, he should make them available, at affordable prices, to developers with good ideas for them. It's about time, after all these decades of neglect.

Good map. That answers my questions about who owns the land along Grand River.

I had no idea how much land west of Cass the Ilitches control.

[Junjie]

I guess every piece helps, and certainly better a park than an empty lot. The GAR across the street is nice and will add some visual interest. But this would be a lot more interesting if it had been paired with an adjacent construction announcement... as is, kind of hard to get excited because it's hard to know who will use it.

On the other, overly optimistic hand, the substantial open green space will be a new feature for the CBD. So maybe all the new apartment residents will make their way over here for ultimate frisbee or whatever.

[emu steve]

I guess every piece helps, and certainly better a park than an empty lot. The GAR across the street is nice and will add some visual interest. But this would be a lot more interesting if it had been paired with an adjacent construction announcement... as is, kind of hard to get excited because it's hard to know who will use it.

On the other, overly optimistic hand, the substantial open green space will be a new feature for the CBD. So maybe all the new apartment residents will make their way over here for ultimate frisbee or whatever.

Or it is better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

One small block will be better off.

[Gistok]

The Royal Order of the Moose building on Cass Ave., is owned by Ilitch. He bought that building from Blair McGowan... with the stipulation that it not be torn down. Unfortunately the Chin Tiki Restaurant Building next door came with no such promise and was immediately razed. A shame really.

Ilitch was unable to build a Hockey Arena behind the Fox [[W. Adams to Montcalm, Cass to almost Park Ave), due to the fact that there were about 10 holdout parcels... 5 of which belonged to the Freida Alibri heirs [[all parking lots). And with Eminent Domain no longer an option, they had to set their sights on another location.

One thing about Ilitch selling land to other developers to build on as part of the entertainment district.... I do not recall that the Ilitch have EVER sold a single parcel of land that they purchased downtown in the 28 years that they have been downtown.

[emu steve]

The Royal Order of the Moose building on Cass Ave., is owned by Ilitch. He bought that building from Blair McGowan... with the stipulation that it not be torn down. Unfortunately the Chin Tiki Restaurant Building next door came with no such promise and was immediately razed. A shame really.

Ilitch was unable to build a Hockey Arena behind the Fox [[W. Adams to Montcalm, Cass to almost Park Ave), due to the fact that there were about 10 holdout parcels... 5 of which belonged to the Freida Alibri heirs [[all parking lots). And with Eminent Domain no longer an option, they had to set their sights on another location.

One thing about Ilitch selling land to other developers to build on as part of the entertainment district.... I do not recall that the Ilitch have EVER sold a single parcel of land that they purchased downtown in the 28 years that they have been downtown.

Re: the last paragraph.

I can see why the Ilitches would be reluctant to sell land very close to their buildings and stadia. They want to control that land.

However, in the area we are discussing I doubt they feel the same about that land. It isn't close to Comerica, the new arena, the casino, etc.

[Junjie]

Or it is better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

One small block will be better off.

Completely agree, see first statement. But the thing is sort of surrounded by empty lots [[minus GAR and DTE), so it's going to have to draw people from a ways away if it's going to stay occupied at non-lunch hours.

[emu steve]

Completely agree, see first statement. But the thing is sort of surrounded by empty lots [[minus GAR and DTE), so it's going to have to draw people from a ways away if it's going to stay occupied at non-lunch hours.

For those who are into 'lighting candles, instead of cursing the darkness', in the next 18 month I see four or five blocks with frontage on Grand River, Woodward or the Fisher see some major development [[think of part of the triangle bounded by Fisher, Woodward and Grand River):

1). The block subject of this thread,

2). The small block where the LC hdqtrs will be.

3). Residentials adjacent to Comerica.

4). A parking garage at Clifford/Montcalm.

Good start! Nothing begets more shovels in the ground but other shovels in the ground.

[mikeg19]

I've thought to myself time to time that after they chose the current Comerica Park site, it was all smoke and mirrors to keep investors thinking they were going to eventually use that land behind the Fox for the new hockey rink. In theory that would have kept land costs across I-75 down and made it a lot less costly to acquire land for the current plot of land the arena is being built on. According the the District Detroit website, much of this land will be a part of the Columbia Park development, but what that entails, who knows....

[emu steve]

I've thought to myself time to time that after they chose the current Comerica Park site, it was all smoke and mirrors to keep investors thinking they were going to eventually use that land behind the Fox for the new hockey rink. In theory that would have kept land costs across I-75 down and made it a lot less costly to acquire land for the current plot of land the arena is being built on. According the the District Detroit website, much of this land will be a part of the Columbia Park development, but what that entails, who knows....

Re: Columbia Park development.

I think we all need to take the 'long view' on ALL of the land near Comerica, near the arena, behind the Fox, west of Cass, by MC Casino, etc.

I suspect that this whole District Detroit will take a good 10, 15 or even 20 years to become substantially complete.

I see a lot planned and a lot which will develop 'organically' as time goes on based on what happens by many developers, demand for housing and office space and commercial establishments, etc.

E.g., if development continues in that area, do McDonalds, CVS, etc. come in and say we need to be here. They eat up a small block here and there. Maybe not along Grand River but west of Cass. Maybe as near the new arena as can be?

My guess: The closer to Woodward the sooner thing will be completed. Behind the Fox and near the MC Casino will be the last and how fast depends on the success of development before it.

I find the area behind the Fox the hardest to guess its future. I can, for example, see more housing say by Temple and the Lodge. Will take time but could happen.

But land in a commercial district which is adjacent to buildings 10+ stories high is harder to develop.

[3WC]

The DTE park parcel was at one time owned by DTE and an Ilitch entity and was planned as commercial development. There was a lot of publicity, much negative, about the deal at the time [[when the Tigers ballpark was slated for the site.)

Make no mistake, the site behind the Fox was always the preferred site of a Tiger Stadium. When it comes down to it, money does not hinder Olympia's development plans, but when they could not make a deal with the Alibri family, who insisted on a piece of Motor City in addition to cash for their lots, they had to move to the current site. When you consider how much the Alibri family turned down for their sites you'd have to consider them idiots. However, recall that the city condemned their lots in order to turn them over the Olympia, [[Alibris were forced under the quick take condemnation statute to take what the City offered, and they did, but sued to overturn the "sale" and won; they paid back the City the amount they received and retained title to their lots.) Then they refused to sell. They have enough money and it didn't make any difference to them. [[Mama Alibri had sold most of her land East of Woodward to Olympia to permit the current stadium to be built.) Revenge is sweet, even though costly at times.

It is no surprise the Ilitch family never sells any land they've acquired. Mike and Marian view the family as a dynasty and their long term plans go out as long as a hundred years. They do have long term plans for everything they own.

[southen]

But land in a commercial district which is adjacent to buildings 10+ stories high is harder to develop.

It is particularly hard to develop when the owners refuse to do anything without subsidies. If it "organically" takes another 20 years that means the Illitch's will have had empty surface lots for as long as 4 decades without redevelopment. Certainly worthy of praise.