Hart Plaza Future

[gthomas]

Ok, anybody else feel that Hart Plaza is getting worse daily. Many plans and proposals has been floating around for years now. No real progress, seem stalled. No sign of maintaining it either.

I feel this important plot of land between the RenCen and Cobo Hall is essential to downtown rebirth. It's embarrassing taking visitor through there to get to the riverfront. Most events and festivals has left Hart Plaza for more appealing and updated areas, despite the perfect location.

It's not pedestrian friendly, lack of landscape and accessibility. Poorly designed and a concrete paradise. Hart Plaza definitely needs a major haul, hopefully soon. Everything around Hart Plaza is booming with newly renovated developments and upgrades in all directions.

I'm hoping the city is still planning to revamp Hart Plaza into an international, stunning "one of a kind" Plaza. Similar to Chicago's Millennium Park. It's the last piece of the puzzle.

* Whatever happen to the new LED Hart Plaza entrance sign? [[Stalled too)

[southen]

A redesign is definitely necessary at this point. The plaza is a dead zone when there aren't any events and it could use an update to make it more of a destination for people on non-event days. The Ford Auditorium site needs to be worked into the park as well which can add some much needed green space. The only problem is that the city isn't in a place financially to invest in the park, so if anything is to happen it is going to have to come from the private sector or spearheaded by the Riverfront Conservancy. Sadly I think it is going to be years before we see any movement on it.

[Zacha341]

I miss the HP Fountain being turned on! Last I heard the metal fixtures had been stolen and not replaced. Sad. I used to attend the annual Charles H. Wright MAAH Museum's African World festival there for many years! Saw Isaac Hayes there as well as Hugh Masekela. The Jazz Fest still uses the full space well, the Tech fest too. Still it needs an update.

[Gannon]

I think they're waiting on Horus' people getting back to 'em for a meeting...I guess there is a lot to consider redesigning this site.

http://chadstuemke.com/stargate-detroit-i/

[Gannon]

This might be easier to read...

http://michigansotherside.com/detroit-stargate/

[ekleezy]

I miss the HP Fountain being turned on! Last I hear the metal fixtures had been stolen and not replaced. Sad. I used to attend the annual Charles H. Wright MAAH Museum's African World festival there for many years! Saw Isaac Hayes there as well as Hugh Masekela. The Jazz Fest still uses the full space well, the Tech fest too. Still it needs an update.

The fountain was on when I was there a couple weeks ago.

[Zacha341]

Awesome! I did not know that. Great news......!

[mikeg19]

If they do their homework, hop on 94 and take the ride to Chicago to see Millennium Park. Hart plaza isn't as big, but take a cue from a city who did it right and turned a barren waste land train yard into a fantastic park and gathering place. Hart Plaza needs to become a destination and connection to downtown. Essentially the following needs to happen:

- Rip out every inch of cement and replace it with greenspace.
- Incorporate the plaza into the Riverwalk
- Small restaurant/food trucks
- Boating access
- Elevated walkway[[s) over Jefferson to connect to downtown [[submerging and covering Jefferson all the way from COBO to 375 would be ideal, but most likely too cost prohibitive)

- Other ideas?

[401don]

I'm going to Chicago in 3 wks for a Tigers series [[poor me). Looking forward to seeing Millennium Park. From what I read, the budget went way over when it was built and I'm sure this is a concern for HP. Chicago gets tons of tourists and has lots of downtown residents. I wonder how many office workers stroll over to it. It probably wasn't designed for that but HP does need to find a way to attract office workers along Jefferson to cross over on their lunch. It's so uninviting now it appears much further than it is and who wants to sit on the concrete anyway. Signature parks are not as easy to design as one might think and you have to live with the consequences for years. Hopefully they can do as good a job as CMart and the riverfront.

[Bham1982]

Millennium Park cost just under a half-billion dollars, and was funded by former Mayor Daley basically forcing corporations with business interests with the city to donate in a pay for play scheme. So not exactly a model.

[mikeg19]

Millennium Park cost just under a half-billion dollars, and was funded by former Mayor Daley basically forcing corporations with business interests with the city to donate in a pay for play scheme. So not exactly a model.

Kwame could have made that happen.....


Serious note though, something along the lines of a Millennium park as far as design. They went way over the top with amenities and I think they even had Ghery or Caltrava design aspects of the park and its structures. Obviously cost a pretty penny if those guys were involved.

[Gistok]

I don't really know what would make Hart Plaza better, besides maintenance.

Probably the bigger question should be... why was it stopped being used for major functions? I used to enjoy attending some of the ethnic festivals down here in the 1980s. But they all left for the suburbs... as have recent event holders. Why? Certainly not for better park spaces...

Also the idea of redo-ing the park.... it was designed by world reknowned architect I. M. Pei... do we need more current world reknowned architects to redesign it into another flavor of the decade?

And what about those underground areas that never quite took off... success wise? Do we just fill them in for more grass and trees?

I'm not convinced that an entire redo of the park is necessary.... but some way to entice people down there for lunch may be a good start... but not by starting from scratch.

[southen]

Was it Pei or Noguchi? I like the monuments and have always been a fan of the fountain, but it just isn't pedestrian friendly. I think instead of going for the "flavor of the decade" you look at other successful parks, like Millennium in Chicago, and try to emulate those successes. Greenspace, Art, Food options and maybe even another fountain or water feature that is more interactive would help enliven the area and even draw people across Jefferson as an alternative to a jam packed Campus Martius Park. As for the underground areas I have no idea what you do with them other than fill them in and possible put offices or parking there.

[1953]

I think the park is now and has always been a terrible place to be.

That said, I vote for something more along the lines of campus martius [[bigger scale obviously), and/or just return it to developable land and put back all the crap we knocked down to "revitalize it."

1953

[dtowncitylover]

I think the park is now and has always been a terrible place to be.

That said, I vote for something more along the lines of campus martius [[bigger scale obviously), and/or just return it to developable land and put back all the crap we knocked down to "revitalize it."

1953

We knocked down a warehouse district. Could imagine the unsightliness coming from that?!

It would be a great greenspace something along the lines of a plaza ala London or Paris.

Walking on it, one has to make sure they aren't about to trip over the cement that has been pushed up or dipped down. It can be unsafe which I suspect is the reason the amount of festivals there is down.

A grand plan would be to pedestrian-ize Jefferson from Randolph to Washington. Jefferson could be place underneath with the tunnel linking from under there as well. You could just go from the Lodge to the Chrysler without ever seeing downtown.

The foot of Woodward and Jefferson could a intermodal transit center and the terminus for downtown BRT.

[Gistok]

Sorry Southen.... it was Noguchi.... Supposedly the Dodge Fountain water features were going to do all of these dazzling things that were promised but I've yet to ever see.

[Scottathew]

Hart Plaza is depressing.

[Atticus]

The problem with Hart Plaza has always been it's location. There is no reason for most people to naturally pass through Hart Plaza unless the Plaza itself is the destination. I am sure a few people may pass through it on the way to the Riverwalk, but I am sure many others avoid it and use other routes to the river because of the numerous panhandlers and its overall isolationist and disrepair feel.

Adding to the problem it is surrounded by Cobo, midrises along Jefferson Ave with no groundfloor retail, and the customs booth for the Tunnel, none of which are generators of daily foot traffic. Jane Jacobs talks about these types of parks, and why they "feel scarry" and are unattractive.

That being said, it does provide nice views of the river and the Skyline, and really is a good location for events [[ignoring the state of disrepair it is in). For that reason, the best and most cost effective use of the place is simply a festival site.

I am going to upset some people in saying this, but I wish they would just erect some fencing or barriers around it, put the park under the COBO management board, and use a portion of the entry fees from the events in the park to pay for its upkeep. [[Yes, I know most festivals currently held there do not charge admission). The city has no money to pay for it, and the bills have to be paid for somehow.

For those who need Riverfront access from downtown, Bates street still serves the connectivity purpose. But just make Hart Plaza an official festival site, charge admission to use it, and pay for the maintenance that way. You may even get the occasional Cobo Hall event that would use it too.

[Bobl]

Twice in recent years we have taken visitors from out of State to the Jazz Festival. We would set up lawn chairs in the shady lawn area near the Water Front Stage, where we got compliments on a great time. Improving the plaza does not need to be complicated. Providing green areas and trees for shade, and level paved pathways would be a start.

[southen]

Sorry Southen.... it was Noguchi.... Supposedly the Dodge Fountain water features were going to do all of these dazzling things that were promised but I've yet to ever see.

No worries I just thought maybe there was a bit of history that I didnt actually know about. I agree about the fountain, there has only been one time where I've ever seen anything happening with the top portion of it. It looked great and I hope one day they can actually get it working properly. That in itself could be what draws more people to the area.

[ABetterDetroit]

The plaza is badly in need of repairs and has maintenance issues that need to be addressed sooner rather than later, but a total renovation seems out of the question financially. Unless the capital expense is underwritten by private sector funds.

Downtown is on a major roll. Let it continue its roll for a while and focus on the neighborhoods harder. Law enforcement, even more blight removal and the parks closer to where more children live should be a much higher priority than Hart Plaza anytime soon.

Personally, I would love for a new development that challenged the Renessance Center vertically on the Ford Auditorium site because I am not a fan of the monolithic nature of rencen. It makes the view of Detroit's skyline from the river, which is often portrayed in the media, look stuck in time -- but that could be just my opinion. Obviously development of that property needs to be done correctly with the blessing of the Ford family, but I believe that that parcel would generate serious interest from developers with experience in successful high rise projects if the word was put out that the city was willing to listen.

[renf]

What about the future of another underutilized feature of the city's riverfront - Historic Fort Wayne? In about March of 2015, I believe, someone from Detroit commissioned the firm that developed the High Line Park in New York to make suggestions about the reuse of Fort Wayne. I thought they were going to submit plans by the end of 2015. What happened to that project?

I think that the Maroun firm agreed to remove pollution from Riverside Park near the Ambassador Bridge. I was there last week but saw no activity. Has that project been
completed/

[401don]

I think the park is now and has always been a terrible place to be.That said, I vote for something more along the lines of campus martius [[bigger scale obviously), and/or just return it to developable land and put back all the crap we knocked down to "revitalize it."1953

Maybe it just needs a nice newspaper stand.

[GPCharles]

The Dodge Fountain is very complex and controlled by computer, with constantly changing spray patterns. It hasn't worked properly since the 1980s.

[EastsideAl]

Was it Pei or Noguchi?

Isamu Noguchi designed the fountain [[although it was not fully built to his specifications, and thus never fully operated as originally intended) and several of the other elements of Hart Plaza. However, the original site design was by Smith, Hinchman & Grylls. As was the trend in the 1970s, they and the city wanted a wide open plaza to enable mass crowds and reduce fears of hiding places for criminals, etc.

It is a relatively rare example of Noguchi's landscape work in the U.S. However, it is unlike some of his other outdoor work, in Miami or Costa Mesa CA for example, which contain much more greenery and notably Japanese-influenced elements [[like Yamasaki's McGregor Center garden at WSU).