Suspected Islamic extremist kills 50+ at club in Orlando

[Zacha341]

Horrible attack. More updates to come:

cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/index.html

orlandosentinel.com/news/pulse-orlando-nightclub-shooting/

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3637414/Everyone-running-Gunman-bursts-gay-nightclub-Florida-shoots-20-people-taking-hostages.html

[lpg]

How do you outlaw hate ???

[Bobl]

Outlawing hate is impossible. Some people are just no damned good. Encouraging logic and reason, rather than religious zealotry and dogma might improve things a bit. When these cowardly acts are done by evil and weak minded fools, I reach out to family and friends, maybe perform random acts of kindness. In the words of Walt Whitman: "I have learned that to be with those I like is enough".

[Johnnny5]

Very sad day for America and especially for those that knew and loved those killed.

I will say that it sickens me to hear this scumbag's name and to see his face on every TV and news website. I don't want to spend the next few months hearing about his life story, his religion, his upbringing or his past. We should be hearing about the victims and their lives. This has to stop!

[Bobl]

Very sad day for America and especially for those that knew and loved those killed.

I will say that it sickens me to hear this scumbag's name and to see his face on every TV and news website. I don't want to spend the next few months hearing about his life story, his religion, his upbringing or his past. We should be hearing about the victims and their lives. This has to stop!

Agreed. There is no good reason to give the perpetrator the attention he craved. Unfortunately, the desire for cash flow via advertising clouds the judgment of the media outlets. Shame on them, as well as the zealots who encourage these actions with their illogical, but profitable, dogma._

[G-DDT]

My condolences to family and friends who've lost loved ones in this ugly hate crime.

[G-DDT]

There is still a lot much to be said and documented about all of this:http://heavy.com/news/2016/06/omar-m...ive-terrorism/

1.) It is the largest single-handed gunman-based massacre on U.S. soil topping above The Virginia Tech and Sandy Hook shootings. So, it is not to be ignored.

2.) Mateen was a U.S.-born citizen. He was registered as a Democrat. He was a former security guard who even worked for a courthouse. His co-workers said he was unstable and would frequently make racist and homophobic remarks. He was married two times, and his ex-wife, Sitora, said he was not very religious and would abuse her over stupid things. Mateen was believed to have made comments about the Tsarnaev brothers [[who were "Chechen"-identified self-radicalized terrorists with no direct Isis ties. Yet, aside from the Marathon bombings, I just found out now about a triple homicide in Waltham https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_W..._triple_murderthat happened implicating them when I was living in Cambridge/working in Boston, having left Waltham seven months earlier. Why I didn't hear about it then when I was living there...? I do very much remember seeing the younger brother many times in front of the Rindge & Latin HS adjacent to the library I often frequented.).

3.) Usually, a terrorist posts things online or leaves some recording to be found later. This guy actually pulled a Riddler and called 911 to announce his action. That is counter-intuitive to the behavior of so many mass-murderers before him. The exception being neuroscience studies major James Holmes, who-after his brutal theater onslaught-in a daze, surrendered and casually mentions the elaborate booby-trap bomb rigged house to the very police he would've wanted to trigger it. Seems there is an odd conflict of impulses going on here.

4.) Mateen targeted a gay club celebrating Latin night. Most of the victims were non-white. One news report initially reported that there was a need for discretion in releasing names publicly and [[eventually) to family as some close to the victims may not have known about their lifestyle; yet, names are now being released. During the stand-off, it was mentioned that Mateen took hostages and made demands. No reports have been made so far listing any of those demands.

5.) Not too far off in timing, a James Howell http://www.indystar.com/story/news/c...ives/85795006/[[Louisville HS graduate and Indiana resident), shows up at a pride rally in Santa Monica very well armed. He, too, betrayed his scheme by loitering around suspiciously and knocking on people's doors [[expecting to meet a contact there?). Neighbors described him as an unstable person who liked to point his guns at folks.

6.) Also, in Orlando, Christina Grimmie, an up-and-coming pop star finishing a concert, gets gunned down by a man, and there is yet to be any revealed information as to who he is to her or why he did it.

7.) There is response from genuinely religious Muslims condemning the attackshttp://time.com/4365689/orlando-shoo...lim-nightclub/ andhttp://www.myajc.com/news/news/local...satanic/nrfMd/ . Of course, the Vatican condemned the attackhttp://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2016...ictims/1236740.

Even if there is little sense to be made of any of this, let's hope and pray to God above that only peace and healing is to follow.

[Hypestyles]

http://hypestyleshomebase.blogspot.c...tions-few.html

I wish I could say it won't happen "again", in some form, but... this has become a new normal.

[oladub]

A few other notes to add to G-DDT's: Omar's parents were admitted to the US under Reagan. It was Reagan who armed Al Queda to fight Soviet invaders. Omar's father has a radio program addressed primarily to Afghani Pashtuns living in the US. He seems to fancy himself as a leader of an imaginary Afghani government in exile. He attended prayers regularly with his son. A friend of Omar said that Omar became religious since his divorce. Omar's wife didn't like being beaten for things like not having the wash done when he came home. Omar's dad contends that Omar did not kill for religious reasons and said, this morning, that Allah will punish homosexuals so it is not necessary for Muslims to do so.

Omar travelled to Saudi Arabia in 2011 and 2012. The FBI investigated him in 2013 because co-workers reported that he had made inflammatory Islamic propaganda talking points to them. The FBI investigated him again in 2014 because he had ties to an American who traveled to the mid-east to be a suicide bomber.

The security firm Omar worked for is a subsidiary of the largest security firm in the world. The parent firm has contracts with the US Department of Homeland Security to ship non-Mexican illegal aliens caught at the border to Phoenix and release them without court intervention. Omar was not reported to be involved with that activity but it is amazing the links, the state of things, Omar's massacre is unearthing.

Meanwhile our corporate owned main stream press has gone into overdrive trying to focus on the gun control issue even though it did report Omar's declaration of support for ISIS prior to carrying out his massacre. CBS, this morning, concluded a report by saying Omar had no association with ISIS prior to the massacre; presumably not including his declaration of allegiance to ISIS. ABC is reported to be scrubbing anti-Muslim comments. The President answered a multi part question about why all Chicago's gun control laws don't work by rambling on about NRA obstructionism and never mentioning why Chicago or Florida's gun control laws failed. The President said people who can be put on a no fly list can still buy guns but didn't say that Omar had been vetted by both his employer the FBI who could find no evidence of fault. Nor has anyone claimed Omar was on a no fly list. Obfuscation is the order of the day.

[Pam]

Isil or asshole? This guy is indistinguishable from any other all American male berserk gunman. He used to beat his wife. He hated gay people. He didn't need to be "radicalized" to decide to use violence. It's all too common in our culture. All he had to do was watch the news to get ideas.

[lpg]

Isil or asshole? This guy is indistinguishable from any other all American male berserk gunman. He used to beat his wife. He hated gay people. He didn't need to be "radicalized" to decide to use violence. It's all too common in our culture. All he had to do was watch the news to get ideas.

And he got world wide coverage in the process, along with every other maniac that commits mass murder. Your 15 minutes of fame guaranteed.

[Pam]

Shooter was a repeat customer at the bar, may have been gay.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/r...222620444.html

He told the Post he thought Mateen was gay, but not publicly. He added that Mateen was "awkward" and other members of their friend group felt sorry for him.

"He just wanted to fit in and no one liked him," he told the Post. "He was always socially awkward."

Sounds like one of those kids who shot up his high school.

[coracle]

Shooter was a repeat customer at the bar, may have been gay.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/r...222620444.html

Can't sleep Pam? Hope you had breakfast first.
Although he called 911 and informed them of his ISIS "connection" and his use of "Allah Akbar" and he being an "anchor baby" of Afghani parents with grandiose ideas, we will have to accept that he did what he did for every possible reason except extremest islamic terrorism because that doesn't exit. Wonder how being a registered democrat fits in?

[jcole]

Can't sleep Pam? Hope you had breakfast first.
Although he called 911 and informed them of his ISIS "connection" and his use of "Allah Akbar" and he being an "anchor baby" of Afghani parents with grandiose ideas, we will have to accept that he did what he did for every possible reason except extremest islamic terrorism because that doesn't exit. Wonder how being a registered democrat fits in?

Although he was born an American citizen, homophobic, a violent wife beater and possibly a closet gay who frequented that nightclub, we'll have to accept the only reason he did this was because he was a Muslim because an American couldn't do this. Wonder if being a registered Republican fits in?

[Pam]

Although he called 911 and informed them of his ISIS "connection" and his use of "Allah Akbar" and he being an "anchor baby" of Afghani parents with grandiose ideas, we will have to accept that he did what he did for every possible reason except extremest islamic terrorism because that doesn't exit. Wonder how being a registered democrat fits in?

He might have been a terrorist wannabe, or claimed that as an excuse. But if he was born here and acted alone and not as part of a group, then his claim is irrelevant. The anti gay or personal rejection motive is the real motive. The media likes to run with the "radical Islam" theme to whip up hysteria. I never said it doesn't exist, I just don't think it fits this guy.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Ok, actually acknowledging the critical distinction[[s) between followers of Islam who DON'T support the radicals [[who also kill other Muslims) gets us out AHEAD of the very Islamophobia we want to avoid!!

NOT MAKING the critical distinction is part of the problem! In some instances causing more discrimination.

The media is not as able to 'easy bake' this one. If anything they want to continue with the standard narrative, but hard to square this time. It seems clear so far that this man acted out of an ideology shared by others. If we take him at his own words.

CAIR quickly denounced the extremists, and any connection inferred or otherwise for sake of the larger Muslim population that do not seek such violence or share the same ideologies. I will try to take them at their word as well.

[coracle]

Although he was born an American citizen, homophobic, a violent wife beater and possibly a closet gay who frequented that nightclub, we'll have to accept the only reason he did this was because he was a Muslim because an American couldn't do this. Wonder if being a registered Republican fits in?

That's nonsense.

[jcole]

That's nonsense.

Which is exactly how I feel about your post

[Zacha341]

The either/ or does not fit so neatly and nice. We DO know is that an American OR other can kill in mass, and have done so. We now have more people justifying their reasoning to kill, and kill more at once, in one place!

[coracle]

I just heard a good one on the radio while driving home today. Some guy suggested the Islamists were getting pissed off because no matter how many massacres and shootings they manage to pull off Obama/Hillary always give the credit for their acts of war to some other persons or groups or situations - like workplace violence and similar. They just can't catch a break and get noticed.

[oladub]

I noticed a couple of other websites today where posters tried to claim Omar wasn't a Muslim or good Muslim. That must be a DNC talking point. How about the Somalis who at this minute have taken hostages in the Amarillo Walmart, the Muslim guy in Rennes, France who yesterday stabbed a student three times to make a Ramadan "sacrifice", the French police couple who were killed by an Islamic terrorist yesterday, or the 86 people killed by Islamic radicals two days ago in Nigeria the press didn't report on. Included were children burned to death [[Note: gasoline, not rifles were involved). Pictures of the bar-b-qued babies are available online. [[close up) These are just the Islamic atrocities I am aware of in the last two days. Anyone here want to be an apologist for all this like you are for Omar after he killed 50 people? Want to take a stab at saying these Muslims were all Islamic wannabes?

We have a choice. Accommodate ourselves to this sort of thing like Chamberlain did to achieve 'peace in our time' or suspending immigration like FDR did the day after Pearl Harbor. We can make that choice in November assuming President Obama keeps siding with Islamic immigration.

[Zacha341]

Umm, eh-uh that's an unfortunate outworking -- Ooops!

...Obama/Hillary always give the credit for their acts of war to some other persons or groups or situations - like workplace violence and similar. They just can't catch a break and get noticed.

[Zacha341]

To ensure one is not 'thought' of as Islamophobic certain words [[no, I am not talking about racial slurs) cannot even be said. I think 'radicalized' is still ok.

We have a choice. Accommodate ourselves to this sort of thing like Chamberlain did to achieve 'peace in our time' or suspending immigration like FDR did the day after Pearl Harbor. We can make that choice in November assuming President Obama keeps siding with Islamic immigration.

[Zacha341]

The resultant chaos in how we perceive the cause and motive may be used for politics, to policy.

The question remains, what do we do to prevent another terror attack upon innocents here in US?

http://hypestyleshomebase.blogspot.c...tions-few.html

I wish I could say it won't happen "again", in some form, but... this has become a new normal.

[Pam]

Who is apologizing for the Orlando shooter? He is a criminal and a murderer. I'm just not sure he's really a member of Isis. Pointing out the similarities between him and the long list of unstable American mass shooters is not an apology.