New laws may close 150 Detroit pot shops

[Zacha341]

What!? 'House of Dank' not getting it for you??

...And the fact it's unregulated is crazy! It's a cash register! The names of these joints are another sign of just how comical it is!

[Honky Tonk]

Woah! When I first saw the thread title, I thought it said

"New Laws May Close 150 Detroit Pet Shops"


I thought "How will I feed my pit bulls????"

[detroitsgwenivere]

...Otherwise you're still out the loop for applying for or retaining a job.

You keep saying that. Except so many employers around here in Detroit do NOT drug test. And for some that do, you tell them that you have only marijuana in your system and they'll tell you they aren't worried about that. The only drug tests I've had to take in all the years I've lived here was when I applied at a large prescription drug based corporation as a kid, when I worked a dangerous automotive job that didn't care about after work weed, and when I went through a job training program that hired in the skilled trades. And half of the people in that program used marijuana on the regular. Most non profits, small businesses, low tier shops, many public service sector and almost all of the Rock companies do not drug test.

Even if they all drug tested, what do you think they're going to find? Cocaine only stays in your system for about 3 days, heroin 3 days , MDMA 3 days, Meth 4 days, Lean 1 day, Alcohol 3 days. Weed stays in your system on average 30 days, so all this ends up doing is singling out the folks that cant keep their hands off recreational drugs for 3 whole days, and the marijuana crowd. These two groups couldn't be more different, yet suffer the same outcome.


On a personal note, it is offensive to me when the uninformed, with their condescension and tired scare tactics think they know what is better for my body than I do. What else should I not do to myself because its "better for society?" Drinking? Abortion? Going out after dark unescorted by a male guardian? I know... buying legal safe marijuana from the local shop that pays taxes, employs my neighbors, and prevents me from having to procure my wares from the local trappers, who are recruiting teenaged children to sell dope to zombies.

[313WX]

You keep saying that. Except so many employers around here in Detroit do NOT drug test. And for some that do, you tell them that you have only marijuana in your system and they'll tell you they aren't worried about that.

The OEMs and Tier 1 Suppliers do, for both salaried and assembly line jobs. And it doesn't matter what type of connections or education/experience you have, if you fail their drug test then you can forget getting in.

And they're not urine tests either, but hair follicle tests [[in which they can trace marijuana in your system from months ago).

But I can see everyone else [[I.E. the only places that unskilled labor can find jobs and don't have the cash flows to pay their employees very well) foregoing drug tests.

[One Shot]

On a personal note, it is offensive to me when the uninformed, with their condescension and tired scare tactics think they know what is better for my body than I do. What else should I not do to myself because its "better for society?" Drinking? Abortion? Going out after dark unescorted by a male guardian? I know... buying legal safe marijuana from the local shop that pays taxes, employs my neighbors, and prevents me from having to procure my wares from the local trappers who are recruiting teenaged children to sell dope to zombies.[/QUOTE]


If you think these places are paying any kind of taxes your kidding yourself.
Employing your neighbors? They are run by owners and family. Maybe a local to work the shifts they don't want and making minimum wage if that!
These places cater to the uneducated that THINK they are disabled and EVERYONE seems to have an ailment nowadays due to our lovely local attorneys. Go do something with your life and be productive instead of sitting around smoking dope to make your "pain" go away! DAMNIT!!!

[Zacha341]

Ok, you're right ALL employers do not screen for drugs but MORE than a few do.

And more of the seeming 'average' jobs are DRUG screening with gusto! THC stays in the system for some time as you mention. I'm not even saying the disparity of drug screening is fair, but it IS active and enforced.

I'll leave the discussion of abortion, 'better for society' etc to others, though all societies seem to come around to some form of rules [[it sorta boils down to which rules you like).

My main focus and concern are employment options [[already scarce) in Detroit specifically. More people will people locked out of employment. However, it really BOILS down to personal choice -- but then no need to be shocked when you find most basic of jobs screen and are utilizing hair taken on site, instead of urine so harder to 'trick' the system.

Back in the day -- it could be argued -- you're starting out in life and smoked for recreation or whatever, you did not have to consider drug tests preemptively or random.

......You keep saying that. Except so many employers around here in Detroit do NOT drug test. And for some that do, you tell them that you have only marijuana in your system and they'll tell you they aren't worried about that. The only drug tests I've had to take in all the years I've lived here was when I applied at a large prescription drug based corporation as a kid, when I worked a dangerous automotive job that didn't care about after work weed, and when I went through a job training program that hired in the skilled trades. And half of the people in that program used marijuana on the regular. Most non profits, small businesses, low tier shops, many public service sector and almost all of the Rock companies do not drug test.

[Baselinepunk]

If only the Church Mafia [[great tag, btw) would get their panties in a bunch over the amount of party stores and churches that litter the City --- that would be a much more better like improvement for the whole.

I guess pushing false profits [[wink), cigs, booze and Cheetos on the local population is not as bad as some white dude from da 'burbs coming to Detroit for a little smoke.

And, btw - unless you've got definative proof - if I were you I would stay away from those nasty, hasty generations regarding people's pain and the need for relief. Pretty crappy.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Ok, you're right ALL employers do not screen for drugs but MORE than a few do.

And more of the seeming 'average' jobs are DRUG screening with gusto! THC stays in the system for some time as you mention. I'm not even saying the disparity of drug screening is fair, but it IS active and in force.

I'll leave the discussion of abortion, 'better for society' etc to others, though all societies seem to come around to some form of rules [[it sorta boils down to which rules you like).

My main focus and concern are employment options [[already scarce) in Detroit specifically. More people will people locked out of employment. However, it really BOILS down to personal choice -- but then no need to be shocked when you find most basic of jobs screen and are utilizing hair taken on site, instead of urine so harder to 'trick' the system.

Back in the day -- it could be argued -- you're starting out in life and smoked for recreation or whatever, you did not have to consider drug tests preemptively or random.

Yes lots of good employers do screen, and there are careers out there that have a reasonable expectation that their employees don't participate in any recreational drug use at all, because of the nature of their work and their work schedules ex: the train/plane/boat operators. Some do because of insurance stipulations. All employers reserve the right to test, but many are beginning to look at the reality of the situation, that the millions [[yes with an M) of people who use marijuana as medicine or on their own time are also more than capable of giving 110% when they aren't high [[hell, some do better when they're stoned, just sayin). Not necessarily dope addicts, there's the probability of theft and quality problems, but like I said, 1-4 day averages for hard drugs doesn't bode well for a urine screen. Not to mention that hair follicle testing is expensive which is why mainly regulated industries of scale tend to use them.

What is funny to me is how some of the same people who demonize marijuana users and businesses are the same people who have no problem when 5 bars selling craft cocktails, 3 churches and a CVS opens in their Detroit neighborhood. Not that I care, to each their own. I just think it's hypocritical.

And yes One Shot, these businesses pay taxes, they just aren't eligible for any federal deductions related to their pot business expenses. So does every card carrying patient in the form of a registration fee to the state. The projected revenue is the main reason that the business class [[the folks who drug test) is backing legalization:

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/...r_index_topics

I guess businesses figured out that instead of law enforcement pocketing people's money, they could be doing it instead.

[Jimaz]

In support of detroitsgwenivere:

Confucius say: He who seeks fault in innocents find fault in self.

[[Confession: I made that up. It reflects the wisdom of Confucius nonetheless.)

[G-DDT]

Wasn't the big promise about the casinos is that they were going to generate revenue and aid the city. I really didn't see them preventing the bankruptcy. If anything, I was sad to see some local places [[a few in Greektown) that said they didn't like the crowd they were getting and eventually close up shop. Yet, we are told this will pay-off, as well.

When the issue of drug testing came up in the 80's, there was a huge outcry about how it was an invasion of privacy [[as were many of the cameras showing up in the workplace-something even brought up in the movie "Strange Brew' of all flicks); folks had huge marches and demonstrations [[from the articles I remember reading back then) with guys in Reagan masks being dunked [[like effigies) in giant beakers filled with yellow fluid [[which also shows people were more vigilant back then about their privacy and their civil rights). It's peculiar how in time we gradually were engineered to accept this all as typical.

The war on drugs was a war on the poor. It never went after the real big boys or corrupt cops or intelligence agencies supplying the flow of cocaine into this country [[especially not as far as Hollywood or the porn industry was concerned, and the porn industry is 90% cocaine). It was to show-off, crackdown, and arrest small time poor folks in poor parts of town, detain them, and seize their property and goods.

During Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" years [[and this also involved William Bennett-a man who saw aborting Black babies as a means for reducing poverty, who also saw drug addiction as bad, but had quite a gambling addiction, himself.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Bennett#Gambling), we regularly had speakers come to our school to tell us how one can "overdose" on pot or how it definitely was a gateway drug [[never have tried crack or heroin yet) or how when a dealer sells you a joint [[because that must be the only way weed is sold, right?), they may roll up dog poo in it [[and all the kids listening go "eeewwww."). The worse is when they were showing us washed-out old 70's propaganda film strips that showed kids having "bad trips" from smoking pot. It's almost as if they were daring some of us to challenge the whole bombastic nature of it shoved down our throats and go full tilt in the opposite direction.

I say this because the misinformation is still out there. "A marijuana joint has more tar in it [[versus say the cigars Gov. Schwarzenegger smokes?) than an average cigarette." Yet, the average tobacco smoker takes 8-12 puffs off their cig with all those other chemicals in it.; whereas, the average marijuana smoker shares a flizzzoint with two to five other persons and get 3-4 hits off it.

I've gotten piss tested more in the last decade [[whether it was for work or to get into a better tier situation at some shelter program) than in the 90's [[and except for the time someone slipped something in some water given to me outside of Erie, PA., I've never failed one.). Piss test cleanse cheaters were within the top five most popular items sold [[and top stolen item) at the health store I worked at. Most jobs are looking for harder stuff, but to be a doctor or pilot...than again, maybe it should be booze we should be screening these pilots for, as we saw in the last three months. The talk of doing it for welfare recipients is common out there, but worse is, to be a dual-diagnosis disability recipient you will be tested to make sure you are on the drugs a doctor prescribed for you. I've even seen guys bounced from shelters because the tests showed that they were not taking the psyche-meds they were listed as supposed to be on. Consider that, should you ever want to take that route...

[G-DDT]

How about the real dangers of herb: it doesn't kill your brain like alcohol [[and yes, all things heal), but it takes something away from you you can never retrieve-not money, because that can be replaced-no, your time. Time better spent getting things done.

Sure grass makes you creative, but productivity [[and I was way more productive than any of my friends, back when I was smoking-always wanting to get folks motivated to go draw, paint, play music, go on a drive or adventure something, but folks just wanted to vegetate....) goes waaaay down. You may have a brainstorm of initial ideas, but you shelve them always hoping that more inspiration will come around to "round it out" some more. Yet, the rub is that that kind of inspiration can only come from the strain of taking oneself out of one's comfort zone-like, say, being sober-and in doing so, you will be in much of a different state of mind that no longer jives with the outlook of the original idea [[much like the old college adage-study sober, take the test sober/study stoned, take the test stoned.).

How about how marijuana makes one passive-aggressive and unable to just call someone out right on the spot and say "Yo!, you are out of line!". Instead, you wake up out of the haze the next day, fully recollecting the night before [[that is one thing marijuana never could impair on me-my long term memory was quite an indelible marvel to witness.), and then you're stomping the floor pissed off at how someone dissed, bullied, or harassed you while in such a "it's all cool" non-confrontational state.

Worse still, is all the missed opportunities. You watch a show at Alvin's, and you are nervously hopping from one foot to another knowing a friend of your has a joint they promised to smoke. You keep saying being high would make things better. When they grab a group to go to the alley, you follow. You end up hanging, chilling, smoking, but you are missing the whole last half of the show. Scenarios like that keep you from hanging with that girl you had your mind on, and even if you are alone with her, you are so unfocused and self-consciously over-thinking when the need to act is crucial [[in a nature-abhors-a-vacuum kind of situation that requires the energy to be channeled right) that allows no room for uncertainty or ambiguity [["oh, does she really like me, or is this one of those 'friends' things?" "do I make the first move, and if I do, will she freak out and tell everyone what a freak I am-oh worry worry."-so you look at the ashtray, you look at the clock, you look at her cat, but the answer isn't there. The fact that she even is alone with you should be encouragement enough....and if anyone finds this funny, you need to know where I was raised and with little chance for practice with a dad who was a 4-eyed ditz with no game to impart to me, and all this and much more with an undiagnosed blood sugar condition that kept me rattled for a long time. Luckily, I've grabbed other snippets from culture that let me know I wasn't the only one twisting painfully in the wind like that.).

Then there's how grass makes folks think out of one kind of box but not much past that. You may see certain aspects of corruption in the world more clearly, but then you go and blame it on sci-fi/history-channel fed theories on "ancient aliens" working with the government. It makes you look for dumb [[but acceptable in a "hep" sense-the kind of thinking that dominates much of the internet if not at the least, much of the "vine video"/Chan mentalities out there.) ironies in everything-all priests molest boys, all cops beat on people, all clowns are evil, all postmen are packing an arsenal of guns on them just waiting for that moment....It's a mass mentality that gets so easily channeled like in some kind of a circuit. One minute you and your friend hit on the secret "cabal" of "what's up with Scooby Doo" back in 1991, and you think you are so darned original and creative for it, but by 1995, you've heard the same stupid word-for-word diatribe about Scooby Doo for the fifteenth wearying time....ugh. How insipid and repetitive.

Believe it or not, sobriety can be it's own newly found state of psychedelia. The right to be "high" is available to all persons, but to just surrender yourself to a chemical isn't the way [[and then to just keep chasing after a ghost of something you can never recover from the first time...there's some people doing that with sex acts that are taking them into more and more dangerous territories.); it's better to find ways to achieve different states of mind without the chemicals [[I highly recommend "Stoned Free" from Loompanics Presshttps://www.amazon.com/Stoned-Free-H...=1&*entries*=0). To stay in any stagnant state of mind for too long lacks that quality of being "high".

[JBMcB]

Wasn't the big promise about the casinos is that they were going to generate revenue and aid the city. I really didn't see them preventing the bankruptcy.

Casinos generate around $100 million dollars of tax revenue for Detroit, which is around 10% of it's total tax revenue collected. That's not insignificant. The issue with the bankruptcy was that Detroit racked up enormous debt, mainly through mismanagement, over spending and corruption.

[Baselinepunk]

How about the real dangers of herb: it doesn't kill your brain like alcohol [[and yes, all things heal), but it takes something away from you you can never retrieve-not money, because that can be replaced-no, your time. Time better spent getting things done.

Sure grass makes you creative, but productivity [[and I was way more productive than any of my friends, back when I was smoking-always wanting to get folks motivated to go draw, paint, play music, go on a drive or adventure something, but folks just wanted to vegetate....) goes waaaay down. You may have a brainstorm of initial ideas, but you shelve them always hoping that more inspiration will come around to "round it out" some more. Yet, the rub is that that kind of inspiration can only come from the strain of taking oneself out of one's comfort zone-like, say, being sober-and in doing so, you will be in much of a different state of mind that no longer jives with the outlook of the original idea [[much like the old college adage-study sober, take the test sober/study stoned, take the test stoned.).

How about how marijuana makes one passive-aggressive and unable to just call someone out right on the spot and say "Yo!, you are out of line!". Instead, you wake up out of the haze the next day, fully recollecting the night before [[that is one thing marijuana never could impair on me-my long term memory was quite an indelible marvel to witness.), and then you're stomping the floor pissed off at how someone dissed, bullied, or harassed you while in such a "it's all cool" non-confrontational state.

Worse still, is all the missed opportunities. You watch a show at Alvin's, and you are nervously hopping from one foot to another knowing a friend of your has a joint they promised to smoke. You keep saying being high would make things better. When they grab a group to go to the alley, you follow. You end up hanging, chilling, smoking, but you are missing the whole last half of the show. Scenarios like that keep you from hanging with that girl you had your mind on, and even if you are alone with her, you are so unfocused and self-consciously over-thinking when the need to act is crucial [[in a nature-abhors-a-vacuum kind of situation that requires the energy to be channeled right) that allows no room for uncertainty or ambiguity [["oh, does she really like me, or is this one of those 'friends' things?" "do I make the first move, and if I do, will she freak out and tell everyone what a freak I am-oh worry worry."-so you look at the ashtray, you look at the clock, you look at her cat, but the answer isn't there. The fact that she even is alone with you should be encouragement enough....and if anyone finds this funny, you need to know where I was raised and with little chance for practice with a dad who was a 4-eyed ditz with no game to impart to me, and all this and much more with an undiagnosed blood sugar condition that kept me rattled for a long time. Luckily, I've grabbed other snippets from culture that let me know I wasn't the only one twisting painfully in the wind like that.).

Then there's how grass makes folks think out of one kind of box but not much past that. You may see certain aspects of corruption in the world more clearly, but then you go and blame it on sci-fi/history-channel fed theories on "ancient aliens" working with the government. It makes you look for dumb [[but acceptable in a "hep" sense-the kind of thinking that dominates much of the internet if not at the least, much of the "vine video"/Chan mentalities out there.) ironies in everything-all priests molest boys, all cops beat on people, all clowns are evil, all postmen are packing an arsenal of guns on them just waiting for that moment....It's a mass mentality that gets so easily channeled like in some kind of a circuit. One minute you and your friend hit on the secret "cabal" of "what's up with Scooby Doo" back in 1991, and you think you are so darned original and creative for it, but by 1995, you've heard the same stupid word-for-word diatribe about Scooby Doo for the fifteenth wearying time....ugh. How insipid and repetitive.

Believe it or not, sobriety can be it's own newly found state of psychedelia. The right to be "high" is available to all persons, but to just surrender yourself to a chemical isn't the way [[and then to just keep chasing after a ghost of something you can never recover from the first time...there's some people doing that with sex acts that are taking them into more and more dangerous territories.); it's better to find ways to achieve different states of mind without the chemicals [[I highly recommend "Stoned Free" from Loompanics Presshttps://www.amazon.com/Stoned-Free-H...=1&*entries*=0). To stay in any stagnant state of mind for too long lacks that quality of being "high".

G-DDT doth projects too much, methinks

[G-DDT]

G-DDT doth projects too much, methinks

Maybe quite so, but I give my personal testimonial with accuracy so I have not lost all objectivity here. I know there are others who would agree to the matter from their own experiences.

Honestly, I wish someone would've laid out what I just elaborated upon to me back when I was wasting time with the crud. Also, I wish some folks would've laid out some clear advice on handling situations when you are in a band [[how it is like a relationship in itself or who to play with, for virtuosity and having good gear don't mean sh*t, etc.).

Case in point: say you are in a band where most of the members smoke weed. Coordinating schedules and getting linked up is a rare and difficult enough task as it is. Once hooked up and commuted to a location, you got to set up, tune up, etc. That window of time of play is limited. Make the most of it. Get structure and practicing full songs locked down. Record it [[on a handheld or what have you), and after all is said and done, then you can spark up your herb and listen to the playback and go "yeah, yeah, okay, there, yeah. Now what was that you were doing there?" Getting high any other time prior to the end is just pissing away precious focus and energy. You will be too sapped even after unloading and tune up to do anything but sit around like a lump. Chances are you will also keep repeating the same cycle to "mellow out" compounding angst from the previous letdowns.

Time for just "jamming" or playing loose high can be done when it's just you alone or with one other member trying to shape sounds. The same goes for actual performances and most importantly, when you are about to go into a studio [[you are paying for that time!). It's not like inspiration is just going to hit you then when you are surrounded by all this overwhelming sound gear and panels while you are blitzed.

Yeah, I'm projecting, but I'm also hoping that with this is advice, that some of the younger readers will hit upon and say "okay, not going to get caught in the wrong cycle." A smart man learns from his mistakes, but a wise man learns from the mistakes of others, and I so often wished that older musicians from back when would've laid it out clearly to me about grass smoking and holding a band together.

[ABetterDetroit]

Sigh. A frustrating thread here. Abuse is abuse period and you can't save everyone from themselves by banning the substance. Is is a plant that grows damn near anywhere. It even can do well in a closet with a light bulb. If you don't like it, fine. Take comfort in the fact that people on weed become less violent. The same sure can't be said for alcohol.

Decriminalization and legalization is coming like a freight train. Just last week, the DEA said it is going to reclassify marijuana. What else were they going to do? Nobody wants to spend the billions fighting a dried up plant anymore.

Michigan doesn't have money for the most challenged schools, roads or even needed public transportation but many are ready to raise the tax rate on property for the umpteenth time in a city that throws tens of thousands of people out of their homes for unpaid property taxes annually.

Where Michigan is at with marijuana tax revenue... stuck in committee going nowhere:

http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/in...nsaries_1.html

Where Colorado is at with maijuana tax revenue with a little over half our population annually:

http://time.com/4037604/colorado-marijuana-tax-revenue/

[Jimaz]

... Where Colorado is at with maijuana tax revenue with a little over half our population annually:

http://time.com/4037604/colorado-marijuana-tax-revenue/

That needs a more visible headline:

Colorado Raised More Tax Revenue From Marijuana Than From Alcohol

It clocked in at $70 million last fiscal year alone.

[detroitsgwenivere]

If you are reading this Zacha, I just want you to know that I mean no malice in my reply to your post, I respect your opinions and honesty. We don't have to agree, but we still have to live in the same city. There are compromises that will need to be made, but in the end we voted as a city to decriminalize. If the majority of folks including yourself want reasonable regulations in exchange for the presence of pot shops, I think most of us can live with that.

[Zacha341]

^^^ I'm good. I didn't think you conveyed malice. As I have said, for this thread I am mostly weighing in how Detroiter's are being FURTHER shut out of employment and what will be the long term impact of that! The genie is out of the bottle re. pot shops being present full-out in the D. But, yes we need regulations. And Detroit's clerical community is not the only population wanting regulation.

[compn]

Where Michigan is at with marijuana tax revenue... stuck in committee going nowhere:

http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/in...nsaries_1.html

Where Colorado is at with maijuana tax revenue with a little over half our population annually:

http://time.com/4037604/colorado-marijuana-tax-revenue/

the michigan bill to tax marijuana is talking about medical marijuana.
no other prescription drug is taxed here in michigan , and it would be wrong to tax medical marijuana as well.

colorado taxes are on non-medical marijuana. just to be clear.

[ABetterDetroit]

Fair point compn. Prescription medications are regulated by the FDA with a 5 Billion dollar annual budget. With the absence of that regulation, cost would need to be picked up by the state. In Colorado's case they only charge the state sales tax rate of 2.9% on the medical marijuana though local rates very as sales tax is a local revenue generator. The big money comes from the "retail" sales as they call it.

Colorado is light years ahead of Michigan on tax issues. They're looking for new tax vehicles. We always seem to look at increasing the same ones that have already cratered our economy for a long time.

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/rev...juana-tax-data

[G-DDT]

^^^ I'm good. I didn't think you conveyed malice. As I have said, for this thread I am mostly weighing in how Detroiter's are being FURTHER shut out of employment and what will be the long term impact of that! The genie is out of the bottle re. pot shops being present full-out in the D. But, yes we need regulations. And Detroit's clerical community is not the only population wanting regulation.

Ah DY. The only forum/comment area online left where folks can find civil compromise. It's funny that it takes a topic like marijuana to hash things out [[pardon the pun).