It really is A Tale of 2 Cities

**401don** · May-22-16, 01:26 PM

Just opened the Det News and directly above the story of 1,000 new apts. that Lowell posted about is another story of multiple shootings yesterday. That's two weekends in a row with not just a couple but several separate shootings in one day.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...rday/84743696/

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · May-22-16, 02:29 PM

Unfortunately, its a tale of 2 cities in every major city in the U.S. My former homes in the Oakland Hills were a world apart from the "flatlands"

**Danny** · May-22-16, 02:35 PM

We have a tale of two Detroits, Gilberttown, Corktown. Mexicantown, Greektown, and Midtown which white folks are making their colonial regionalism and a black and poor ghetto hoods where folks are desperate to leave or to be displaced.

Violent street street crime in Detroit's West Side is a norm. Same goes with East Side, Northeast and Northwest side. In those areas black folks are the ones losing out and moving to the suburbs just to get away from their own problems. But sonner or later will continue to bring their problems to some suburban areas. Most of them don't have their family tradition structure that white and other minorities have. Most black men don't want to commit to marriage and raising their kids or have a decent education, jobs or fighting the system [[which is now depends on reputation and race cards.) They rather or go jail to live out the rest of their lives. To whites and other minorities, "If black people want to kill themselves, go right ahead. If they want a better life away from their ghetto hoods, get educated, and beat our system. It's the best they could do." Play the life game or do the hunger games. It is their choice.

Detroit is getting better from Gilberttown to anytown all the way further to New Center Area. White folks who are hunger to corporate regionalism are buying up buildings and land, put up their hipster shops and lure more young professionals and millennials in Detroit. By the end of the 21st Century white folks will officially have Detroit back. They need the waterfront and they need their resources, even from Canada. Their areas will be "Project Green Light" secured tight and will be a cop and in every corner. So my question is Since Detroit is developing, where are the black people? My answer they just hit north of 8 Mile Rd.

**SDCC** · May-22-16, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

Just opened the Det News and directly above the story of 1,000 new apts. that Lowell posted about is another story of multiple shootings yesterday. That's two weekends in a row with not just a couple but several separate shootings in one day.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...rday/84743696/

So much for a no-violence day; perhaps Detroit could start with a no-violence day for 1/2 a day. The day is not over yet, and the shooting count has hit double digits.

**Honky Tonk** · May-22-16, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by SDCC

So much for a no-violence day; perhaps Detroit could start with a no-violence day for 1/2 a day. The day is not over yet, and the shooting count has hit double digits.

Maybe we could observe a moment of no violence.

**mikeg19** · May-23-16, 06:05 AM

I don't know how this differs from Chicago, New York, LA, Miami, etc., except for the fact they have greater populations. Flip on the local news coverage any night in any major city and there are going to be at least a couple shootings or deaths. But obviously we are at ground zero so it's a constant reminder here.

**canuck** · May-23-16, 07:05 AM

The more violent it gets, the less peaceful it is. And Vice-o-verser.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · May-23-16, 08:02 AM

The crime and desperation of Detroit [[and yes, any major city) are awful and confounding. The worst part is: the social breakdown that has spawned them has no easy fix. You cannot force personal improvement on other people. What we can do is offer help to those willing to help themselves to get out [[of that life, as well as, perhaps, the neighborhood), and jail for great lengths for those that perpetuate the violence.

**corktownyuppie** · May-23-16, 08:13 AM

My only issue with the "2 Cities" narrative is that it wasn't that long ago that Detroit was only "1 City", remember? And my recollection of that 1 City was that it pretty much was a disaster. This same phenomenon happened when they were fixing the residential lighting problems. When they announced the 3 year plan to get the lights fixed, my immediate reaction wasn't that it wouldn't happen....it was that after year one was complete, there would be a crazed outcry about why certain neighborhoods were prioritized over others.

And the bigger problem with the 2 cities narrative is that it distracts us from the actual problem...concentrated poverty and the social problems associated with it. The 2 cities issue is a red herring...you could turn the 2 cities into 1 really nice city, just by fully replacing one set of problem-causing people with another set of problem-solving people and pushing the proble-causing people into another district, municipality, etc.

But that doesn't really solve the problem, right? You still have concentrated poverty and the problems associated with it.

Alternatively, we could stop bringing in people with means, and push out the people with means back to the other districts. Voila. One City! Same problems.

So my opinion is that we need to move away from calling this a 2 Cities issue. While I get the emotional appeal of it, it will provoke non-productive reactions, and it also implies "solutions" which aren't really solutions. Instead of a 2 Cities issue, let's call it what it is....a concentrated, generational poverty issue.

Then we can take advantage of the resources that all the economically powerful bring with them and use it to solve the problem, rather than argue about "whose city" Detroit really belongs to.

**Wesley Mouch** · May-23-16, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

We have a tale of two Detroits, Gilberttown, Corktown. Mexicantown, Greektown, and Midtown which white folks are making their colonial regionalism and a black and poor ghetto hoods where folks are desperate to leave or to be displaced.

Violent street street crime in Detroit's West Side is a norm. Same goes with East Side, Northeast and Northwest side. In those areas black folks are the ones losing out and moving to the suburbs just to get away from their own problems. But sonner or later will continue to bring their problems to some suburban areas. Most of them don't have their family tradition structure that white and other minorities have. Most black men don't want to commit to marriage and raising their kids or have a decent education, jobs or fighting the system [[which is now depends on reputation and race cards.) They rather or go jail to live out the rest of their lives. To whites and other minorities, "If black people want to kill themselves, go right ahead. If they want a better life away from their ghetto hoods, get educated, and beat our system. It's the best they could do." Play the life game or do the hunger games. It is their choice.

Detroit is getting better from Gilberttown to anytown all the way further to New Center Area. White folks who are hunger to corporate regionalism are buying up buildings and land, put up their hipster shops and lure more young professionals and millennials in Detroit. By the end of the 21st Century white folks will officially have Detroit back. They need the waterfront and they need their resources, even from Canada. Their areas will be "Project Green Light" secured tight and will be a cop and in every corner. So my question is Since Detroit is developing, where are the black people? My answer they just hit north of 8 Mile Rd.

Its great to see that suburban flight is now multi-racial. Next, blacks can again return downtown again too.

**TTime** · May-23-16, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

I don't know how this differs from Chicago, New York, LA, Miami, etc., except for the fact they have greater populations. Flip on the local news coverage any night in any major city and there are going to be at least a couple shootings or deaths. But obviously we are at ground zero so it's a constant reminder here.

You really can't see the difference between Detroit and those cities you listed? I'll spell it out for you then. In those cities you don't drive through miles of wasteland to get to a small downtown that has a few blocks of functioning community. Start in the South Loop in Chicago and drive or better yet walk north until you hit the burbs and tell me you can't see the difference. You can get lost for hours in beautiful neighborhoods. Not quite the same in Detroit is it? And yes of course there is horrific crime in all of those cities in certain areas but at least it is somewhat offset by the fact that huge portions of those cities are great places to live.

**Enduro** · May-23-16, 11:21 AM

I can only speak for Chicago because I've spent so much time there for work and there is clearly an intentional racial divide between the city you enjoy and the city that exists to the south of it. You simply do not see any African Americans in those miles and miles of "beautiful neighborhoods." I've asked many of my coworkers there why I can go a week working at their office without seeing more than a handful of black people and the natives shrug it off. I fear that's where Detroit is headed.

I'd like to see the majority of public money and developments from here on out be in the neighborhoods. The Gilbert seed is already in full bloom and established, it doesn't need much more nurturing at this point. I know millennials are the golden goose but courting them shouldn't be at the expense of those that have kept the city on life support while the corporate bucks waited for their arrival. Kicking seniors out of their apartments in a city with so many abandoned buildings and empty lots is obscene.

**Honky Tonk** · May-23-16, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Its great to see that suburban flight is now multi-racial. Next, blacks can again return downtown again too.

Soon the circle of life will be complete.

**TTime** · May-23-16, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Enduro

I can only speak for Chicago because I've spent so much time there for work and there is clearly an intentional racial divide between the city you enjoy and the city that exists to the south of it. You simply do not see any African Americans in those miles and miles of "beautiful neighborhoods." I've asked many of my coworkers there why I can go a week working at their office without seeing more than a handful of black people and the natives shrug it off. I fear that's where Detroit is headed.

I'd like to see the majority of public money and developments from here on out be in the neighborhoods. The Gilbert seed is already in full bloom and established, it doesn't need much more nurturing at this point. I know millennials are the golden goose but courting them shouldn't be at the expense of those that have kept the city on life support while the corporate bucks waited for their arrival. Kicking seniors out of their apartments in a city with so many abandoned buildings and empty lots is obscene.

There is no doubt that there is a racial divide in Chicago and I know the North and West sides much more so than the South but if you head South along the water toward Hyde Park you will see much more diversity and it's pretty damn beautiful down that way in certain parts too. The museums, restaurants and Universities on the South side are very strong. Hyde Park, for example, has plenty to offer and you could definitely have some fun exploring down there. On the West side of the city there are a number of great areas that are also very diverse.

**Wesley Mouch** · May-23-16, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

My only issue with the "2 Cities" narrative is that it wasn't that long ago that Detroit was only "1 City", remember? And my recollection of that 1 City was that it pretty much was a disaster. This same phenomenon happened when they were fixing the residential lighting problems. When they announced the 3 year plan to get the lights fixed, my immediate reaction wasn't that it wouldn't happen....it was that after year one was complete, there would be a crazed outcry about why certain neighborhoods were prioritized over others.

And the bigger problem with the 2 cities narrative is that it distracts us from the actual problem...concentrated poverty and the social problems associated with it. The 2 cities issue is a red herring...you could turn the 2 cities into 1 really nice city, just by fully replacing one set of problem-causing people with another set of problem-solving people and pushing the proble-causing people into another district, municipality, etc.

But that doesn't really solve the problem, right? You still have concentrated poverty and the problems associated with it.

Alternatively, we could stop bringing in people with means, and push out the people with means back to the other districts. Voila. One City! Same problems.

So my opinion is that we need to move away from calling this a 2 Cities issue. While I get the emotional appeal of it, it will provoke non-productive reactions, and it also implies "solutions" which aren't really solutions. Instead of a 2 Cities issue, let's call it what it is....a concentrated, generational poverty issue.

Then we can take advantage of the resources that all the economically powerful bring with them and use it to solve the problem, rather than argue about "whose city" Detroit really belongs to.

The 2-cities narrative is jealousy rather than problem solving. There were two cities in the Gilded Age, the Depression, the 60s, and today. There's no news in that news. Fraser is not Brush Park. NYC is not Wheeling WV. So what. Dearborn is not Singapore. So what.

What to do about it is the question. Are we on the right path? Our politicians [[of both parties) have failed. The public is looking at alternatives [[Bern/Donnie) and the debate is a changin'.

**Dumpling** · May-23-16, 05:31 PM

Go Fund Me-type funeral and other expense pages also tell a tale of two cities.
No jealousy there, just pain and a support-money gulf. The suburbs have groups
that are more able to share money than people in the old city [[for example, who
have relatives that have been shot and need money for the medical or funeral
expenses). Lowell did a breakout once on costs associated with violence in the
city. Only saw it once [[quite enough to see it once).

**Danny** · May-23-16, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Its great to see that suburban flight is now multi-racial. Next, blacks can again return downtown again too.

Blacks are too returning back Detroit, But not a in large numbers. Those who have the money and a job can return back to Detroit. Mostly and poor and low-income folks are losing out and hitting 8 Mile Rd. to look for a better life.

It's just like in the movie,"Apocalypto" where a severe drought and disease took its toll in the Mayan Civilization and its tribes either move on to better forests or grabbing other tribes to be sacrificed to their sun god Kukulkan so they bring the rains back.

Black folks in Detroit are in their Apocalypto! killing each other and moving on before the white folks move in. Now it's white folks turn to get the piece of Detroit's pie. After they leave again in few hundred years, who will be next race that will take over Detroit? Hispanics or some new alien race from another planet.

Right now Detroit is getting better and white folks are going to make Detroit great again. They want their city back and letting black folks have the old cookie cutter inner ring suburbs.