Eastern Market Ten Year Explosion

**Gannon** · May-17-16, 05:43 AM

I'm cool with most of this plan, but cannot abide a residential tower in the middle of the market.

The Eastern Market is quite varied, and those who live in the periphery are subject to many odd daily and weekly events...the clock starts much earlier there than in most places around the city. I know, I lived at the north end for years.

But putting a high-end residential tower smack in the middle? The first year these newbies are stuck in Flower Day weekend insanity, they'll know they should've done better due diligence. I'm sure they won't be happy with the Lion's fans, either.

I heard about this last night...and was flabbergasted. Unless they are going to have a helicopter pad on the top...putting bedrooms above market is just silly.

Wasn't somebody dreaming of an open-air music venue there, too?! I remember that being tossed about in recent years...I thought that frivolous, too, since Chene Park's amphitheater is under-utilized. It is just sitting there at the other 'end' of the Dequindre Cut...

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...food/84287234/

**Gannon** · May-17-16, 05:45 AM

Plus, in the graphic the Freep seems to think Shed 1 is an official Eastern Market property...I'm pretty sure that is a private company. Too funny...newbies...Gallagher's got to get control over his graphics people.

https://www.facebook.com/Pottery-Guy-140187082716999/

**dtowncitylover** · May-17-16, 06:59 AM

It wouldn't be bad to have some residential infill in or around Eastern Market, but I agree a "tower" sounds like too much. It would be cool for EM to grow and become like a Kensington Market-esque place. Centrally focused on the farmer's market but more varied shops and flea markets on the periphery.

**middetres** · May-17-16, 07:06 AM

Someone asked me recently where Shed 1 was...I said 1967. It was torn down that year for freeway expansion. I never even noticed that place on the north end called itself Shed 1.

As for apartments on top of Shed 4, I'm a bit leery too. As long as every future tenant signs a lease stipulating that they'll be living in an active market area with severe crowding several days of the year with no right to complain about it, then yes, please go ahead and build it.

But it happens all the time where condos/apartments get built in hip, happening places [[think NY's meatpacking district or Chicago's Boystown) where the future residents know full and well that they're moving into a loud, raucous, late-night entertainment area, yet a few months in, they start bitching about the noise. Guess who usually wins?

**dtowncitylover** · May-17-16, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by middetres

As for apartments on top of Shed 4, I'm a bit leery too. As long as every future tenant signs a lease stipulating that they'll be living in an active market area with severe crowding several days of the year with no right to complain about it, then yes, please go ahead and build it.

But it happens all the time where condos/apartments get built in hip, happening places [[think NY's meatpacking district or Chicago's Boystown) where the future residents know full and well that they're moving into a loud, raucous, late-night entertainment area, yet a few months in, they start bitching about the noise. Guess who usually wins?

I would also advocate for not guaranteeing parking spots. If driving is a privilege not a right, then so is parking. If we want to start having the true urban, vibrant, and crowd filled streets and shops, then we need to start making people leaving their car at home and biking, walking, or taking the bus/any future transit.

**middetres** · May-17-16, 09:58 AM

I wholeheartedly agree on the parking issue. I love that the Forest Arms won't have any off-street parking anywhere near the building. I've seen people bemoan that fact on this forum, yet the building is 100% leased. Albeit 70% of the units are being rented by WSU to alleviate their over-crowded wait list for student housing.

**ABetterDetroit** · May-17-16, 01:35 PM

I think this master plan is excellent. More jobs, opportunities for entrepreneurs and residents sounds exactly like what the Eastern Market neighborhood needs. I had to read the article twice to find the dreaded "tower". Shed 4 has a large footprint, rebuilding it so it is enclosed and more available all season with 60 residences on top for 12-15 million doesn't sound at all like a "tower" to me. I find it hard to believe that more residents living there would be anything but a net positive. Nobody's going to move in and not know what they are moving into. In fact just the opposite is true, this is what urban living is all about and why a new generation is selecting it for their lifestyle.

**SammyS** · May-17-16, 02:11 PM

Speaking from experience, there is nothing too challenging about an open air market so close to residential. Victoria market in Melbourne Australia is a stones throw from the CBD [[red area) and regarded a sort after place to live. You'd be hard pressed finding a house under a million [[and that's in $USD) anywhere on this map let alone closed to the market. One BR apartments will also set you back over half that.

Attachment 30440

From the wiki link....

"The Queen Victoria Market [[also known as the Queen Vic Markets or the Queen Vic, and locally as '"Vic Market"') is a major landmark in Melbourne, Australia, and at around seven hectares [[17 acres) is the largest open air market in the Southern Hemisphere."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Victoria_Market

**southen** · May-17-16, 02:12 PM

There won't be a tower unless we are redefining tower as a 4-5 story building. Making the market mixed use while still planning for food processing is a good thing. I am looking forward to seeing them strengthen their connections from Lafayette Park and from Brush Park once those residences start to be built.

**ekleezy** · May-17-16, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by middetres

I wholeheartedly agree on the parking issue. I love that the Forest Arms won't have any off-street parking anywhere near the building. I've seen people bemoan that fact on this forum, yet the building is 100% leased. Albeit 70% of the units are being rented by WSU to alleviate their over-crowded wait list for student housing.

My understanding is that WSU isn't connected to Forest Arms anymore. So it's 100% leased without necessarily being student housing.

**MSUguy** · May-17-16, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Gannon

I'm cool with most of this plan, but cannot abide a residential tower in the middle of the market.

The Eastern Market is quite varied, and those who live in the periphery are subject to many odd daily and weekly events...the clock starts much earlier there than in most places around the city. I know, I lived at the north end for years.

But putting a high-end residential tower smack in the middle? The first year these newbies are stuck in Flower Day weekend insanity, they'll know they should've done better due diligence. I'm sure they won't be happy with the Lion's fans, either.

I heard about this last night...and was flabbergasted. Unless they are going to have a helicopter pad on the top...putting bedrooms above market is just silly.

Wasn't somebody dreaming of an open-air music venue there, too?! I remember that being tossed about in recent years...I thought that frivolous, too, since Chene Park's amphitheater is under-utilized. It is just sitting there at the other 'end' of the Dequindre Cut...

http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...food/84287234/

Nowhere in the article is the word tower used so I'm not sure how you can flabbergasted over a proposed project that doesn't exist.

The market's Shed 4, now an open-air facility, would become an enclosed market hall with up to 60 mixed-income residences built atop it. The project would densify the market core and provide new revenue to support the market. The Shed 4 project could cost $10 million to $15 million.

**corktownyuppie** · May-17-16, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by MSUguy

Nowhere in the article is the word tower used so I'm not sure how you can flabbergasted over a proposed project that doesn't exist.

The market's Shed 4, now an open-air facility, would become an enclosed market hall with up to 60 mixed-income residences built atop it. The project would densify the market core and provide new revenue to support the market. The Shed 4 project could cost $10 million to $15 million.

Did you not read this part?

The 60 residences boast 3-stories each, with current designs placing no more than one unit every 3 floors. The 180-foot behemoth will be seen from as far away as Selfridge Air Force Base, according to unnamed sources.

**Eber Brock Ward** · May-17-16, 04:00 PM

For scale perspective, this is 60 units and Forest Arms is 70 and four stories.

Spread Forest Arms out over the larger Shed 4 footprint and you're probably looking at only two stories, maybe three or [[less likely) one, on top of the shed.

**Eber Brock Ward** · May-17-16, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Did you not read this part?

Oooh, kinda cool. Where'd you find that 180-foot piece? I didn't see it in the Freep article.

**corktownyuppie** · May-17-16, 04:20 PM

Obviously, I was speaking tongue-in-cheek. But that would be hilarious if someone thought the best way to design a 60-unit apartment complex was to give them townhouse floor plans and then stack them one atop another.

**illwill** · May-17-16, 05:08 PM

When does it end? The Fulton Market [[Meat Packing District) in Chicago had to actually designate the entire neighborhood a Historic District not allowing the old meat packing warehouses to be torn down in order to keep its unique character. I believe you can only build new on vacant lots. They saw this coming and stopped it red handed. People complained that owners would lose out not being able to sell to big dollar developers but that hasn't stopped big businesses from paying big dollar rents to be in that neighborhood, whether residential or commercial. It's thriving and it's only the beginning.

**G-DDT** · May-17-16, 10:08 PM

From what I recently saw when I was there last week, the plans to knock down the more dilapidated warehouses near the cut and St. Aubin are being put into effect.

I wonder what will become of the one right behind Roma Cafe? I see the construction vehicles starting to work away at it. I carefully prowled that one a few winters back and posted one of the murals inside in my albums area. I saw areas in there where some homeless had a little sheltered nesting/camping spot from a time back.

**MSUguy** · May-18-16, 08:02 AM

FWIW here's Eastern Market 10 years plan finalized earlier this year.

http://9b32aa63de0c5aa2a1c4-ac3abd6e...res-160204.pdf

**royce** · May-19-16, 02:45 AM

This is what I find puzzling about the expansion. The enclosing of Shed 4 will take up parking spaces and the residents above are probably going to need somewhere to park. There is an old parking deck nearby Shed 4 that I've never seen used, but is slated for an open amphitheater. Why not build a parking deck that services the residents in the new apartments above Shed 4 and also use that deck for visitors and patrons to Eastern Market? If more surface lots are going to be gobbled up for new buildings, having a parking deck somewhere in Eastern Market makes sense. Honestly, the lot just north of the Fisher Freeway on Russell, which was redone recently, should have been an ideal spot for a parking deck, with ground floor retail and possibly apartments above. This was a missed opportunity.

**Gannon** · May-19-16, 06:02 AM

Thought that at the time and asked my friends over at Zeff's what they knew and felt. It was a punishing time for them, for quite a while it was tough to get in there.

I believe the consensus was to not significantly alter the appearance of the market, keeping things at street level.

I love how a few of y'all looked over the 60 units and had to latch onto my use of a term. There is nothing within a few blocks higher than two stories, the most significant features are the two smokestacks from the new and old fire department facilities.

Ten units per floor yields six stories ABOVE the street-level retail and other market activities, seven stories is a tall building. A tall building is a tower. Kiss my fanny.

These are slated to be higher-end units, the way the story was told to me was this is all New York money being dumped onto a Detroit establishment. If that is untrue, then I cannot imagine who would approve of it. Dan Carmody still looks similar, pretty sure he's not been made into a pod-person. If he is now making decisions like this I'll have to lower the pedestal for my shrine to his previous heroics...

...because all I can see if a bunch of out-of-towners coming in with cash and attitude and ruining the dynamic of a Detroit institution with their bullshit.

**southen** · May-19-16, 10:47 AM

There are quite a few buildings in Eastern Market above two stories, plus the sheds right next to where this would happen have roof lines/signage that extend beyond two stories. I dont think you realize how big the lot is that they are working with. They could easily go beyond 10 units per floor for that lot. Fanny kissing aside, your definition and use of the term tower is pretty weak and isn't at all an accurate description of what they want to place there, even if it goes as high as 7 stories, which it won't.

**Gistok** · May-19-16, 12:35 PM

Gannon.... I think you are pretty much alone in your condemnation here....

**Mackinaw** · May-19-16, 01:31 PM

Shed 4 is the least significant structure in the Market and its parcel is tremendously underutilized as the majority of its space is surface parking. I love this proposal. I echo the others who say that 3-5 stories is not a "tower," and that residential is a great use to add more and more of to EM.

Why is any person on here worried about residents complaining about market traffic and activity? Presumably, if you move there, it's because you want to be in one of Detroit's few consistently day-in, day-out busy and vibrant areas. Or at a minimum, you would be aware of the fact that you are signing a lease or contract for a place surrounded by a market. I mean, unless you take a hidden tunnel to get to the building and were not aware of your surroundings...

Of all things to worry about...

As for tall buildings, they should go ahead and build some along Gratiot and along the Dequindre cut.

As for parking, that will work itself out. So many blank space along the Chrysler and other side streets. That will continue to be there, and it is ripe for the additional of a garage or two. Problem solved.

**downtownguy** · May-19-16, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Gannon.... I think you are pretty much alone in your condemnation here....

Not necessarily. I like the idea of more residential in the market, but plopping it right in the middle of the most densely packed pedestrian area does not seem wise to me. Previous residential that sprung up more or less organically [[Rocky Lofts; FD Lofts; E&B Brewery, and for that matter the pioneer: Atlas Lofts on Gratiot) have all been on the periphery of the sheds. Putting a seven-story tower in the middle would both be impractical for the residents [[access, parking, noise, etc.) as well as aesthetically insulting to visitors. There's plenty of available and empty land still close to the sheds that I think would be much better for residential. I'm with Gannon here, and considering he once lived in one of the aforementioned lofts, I think his insight is spot-on.

**Gistok** · May-19-16, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

Not necessarily. I like the idea of more residential in the market, but plopping it right in the middle of the most densely packed pedestrian area does not seem wise to me. Previous residential that sprung up more or less organically [[Rocky Lofts; FD Lofts; E&B Brewery, and for that matter the pioneer: Atlas Lofts on Gratiot) have all been on the periphery of the sheds. Putting a seven-story tower in the middle would both be impractical for the residents [[access, parking, noise, etc.) as well as aesthetically insulting to visitors. There's plenty of available and empty land still close to the sheds that I think would be much better for residential. I'm with Gannon here, and considering he once lived in one of the aforementioned lofts, I think his insight is spot-on.

Wouldn't it make sense to at least see a drawing first before making judgement? All you're doing is basing your decision on a preconceived notion.....