Ilitch's Biggest Flops?

[Enduro]

There's been so much angry chatter about Ilitch's LCD roof and dopey arena name that I feel one of my biggest and more relevant concerns has been lost in the shuffle - the family's lack of success beyond LC's and spending like drunken sailors on free agents. The fact they are going to have a whole neighborhood to brand when they've had so many flops concerns me quite a bit. Here's some of the ones at the top of my mind, please add to the list [[include nasty building deals, neglecting historic structures, etc too!).

Johnny Rockets spot - one of the best location in the city, rent-free, and they can't seem to even stumble into a winner. This is the worst crime of all in context of the question. If they can't make THIS work what makes them think they can handle multiple prime locations?

American Pizza Cafe - perhaps it was before it's time [[in the midwest) but still a flop

Second City - I actually took classes here and the staff and cast was wonderful but the rumor I heard is that this was just a vanity purchase and when the "franchise" license was up for renewal they just let it go. Now there is the often empty City Theater.

Comerica Park - Liquid fireworks?! In a cold midwest city?! The carousel and Ferris Wheel are silly but I can live with them... if the Ferris Wheel riders could actually SEE the game from the top. Knocking down buildings to improve the view of the city. Parking on Woodward? The stadium should butt up to the street, the placement of the parking lot is stupid. The scoreboard was misplaced. Left field walls were too far, players complained and they brought them in, putting the flagpole out of play - eliminating one of the only nods to historic Tiger stadium. If you think the CoPa is a nice modern stadium you need to see a game in another park. Also - worst concessions ever.

Tigers ownership up until 2006 - Dreadful. Even threw Alan Trammel under the bus to manage a shit team. Poor relations with many 1984 players, including Sparky. At least he knew enough to re-hire Ernie Harwell.

The handling of Tiger Stadium - no matter what fate you wanted for the stadium you must agree this was handled poorly [[at best). Sure, the city owned the property but Mike did not help at all.

Motor City Casino [[Marian) - Isn't that a temporary casino location? Weird. Pretty sure the famous Soup Kitchen and less famous but very cool Sardine Bar were a couple of the Detroit staples sacrificed for a move that never came. Also - the signage is tacky as hell.

What else do you have, Detroit Yes?

[1953]

I made this little gem last year...

[p69rrh51]

Speaking of the United Artists Building.

[p69rrh51]

Their "stewardship" of Masonic Temple was not that spectacular either.

[dtowncitylover]

I made this little gem last year...

What are the buildings in the picture? I know the top left is Madison-Lennox. I can't remember the names of the others.

[GPCharles]

Little Caesar's Pizza Station -free-standing, fast food pizza locations. Complete bust.

[Enduro]

Little Caesar's Pizza Station -free-standing, fast food pizza locations. Complete bust.

Hmm. Can you elaborate? I have a stand alone LC with drive thru by me in Oak Park. The deep dish is actually decent and I'll admit I grab one fairly often. Was this a smaller version? Like a Photomat or something?

[jackie5275]

Hot & Ready Pizza itself. While a really bad $5.00 pizza may be good if you're feeding kids at a birthday party, as an adult, it's not. It's a massive amount of dough, a dab of sauce, & pre-measured cheese & pepperoni that don't reach anywhere near to the crust. Round or square, little variety. I remember as a kid you could get a made to order pizza there that was actually good. From a business stand point, I guess it's been successful [[probably from parties wanting to feed a bunch of people cheap food). But from an actual pizza place stand point, this is the worst.

[jackie5275]

Was this a smaller version? Like a Photomat or something?

No, they were more like a fast food restaurant where you could get pizza, salad, subs, etc and actually sit down to eat it on site.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Count me in among the fans of the Ilitches. Like all big companies, LC has had its ups and downs, but they're a solid, profitable company, with lots of area employees and thousands of mostly first-time small business owners as franchisees. And flop ideas? Remember the Edsel? The McDLT? New Coke? Businesses try new things. Some work, some don't.

On the sports front, the Ilitches have mostly been willing to pony up the money to field good teams [[obviously 1995-2005 was an austerity period for the Tigers). Doesn't always pan out, but that's true of all sports teams. Say what you want about Comerica Park, it is a better [[if less nostalgic) place to watch a ballgame than Tiger Stadium, and it is integrated into downtown. Same will be true of the LC Arena.

As for property, yes he owns a lot of things that have yet to be restored or land yet to be developed. But a lot is now or about to be starting soon. For the first time in his decades downtown, market conditions are starting to warrant doing the work.

Olympia is far from perfect. But they are good corporate citizens. And they have done more for the city than anyone on this website. And they accept the hate and scorn with a smile.

[EastsideAl]

The idiotic destruction of the Adams Theater. And all of the other the Ilitch-destroyed buildings replaced by empty space. As well as the Ilitch's management and maintenance of most of the buildings they own other than their marquee properties.

[Wesley Mouch]

Their "stewardship" of Masonic Temple was not that spectacular either.

Depends on your point of view. If they had not stepped up to the plate [[so to speak), the Masonic might not have made it through. Those were rough times.

[emu steve]

Depends on your point of view. If they had not stepped up to the plate [[so to speak), the Masonic might not have made it through. Those were rough times.

Wasn't it going to be a tax sale?

[Zads07]

I made this little gem last year...

Top left: Madison-Lenox, controversial and ILLEGAL demolition [[research it)
Top right: Adams Theatre, preserved the facade, but a consolation for an historic building
Middle left: Detroit YMCA demolished for Comerica Park [[footprint)
Middle Right: Detroit YWCA, demolished for Comerica Park [[footprint)
Bottom Left: Park Avenue Hotel, imploded for a loading/dock ramp for trucks at the new arena
Bottom Right: Hotel Wolverine, demolished for surface parking and for a better view of Comerica Park from Woodward Ave.

Also this: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...pany-buildings

Let us not forget he owns the following buildings mentioned in this photo that are vacant: United Artists Theatre, Detroit Life, Loyal Order of the Moose, Blenheim Building and the giant swaths of gravel parking lots in Foxtown that apparently will become part of the District Detroit. Forgive me if I'm skeptical of that actually happening.

The construction of CoPa also forced the move of the Elwood and Gem Theatre, no thanks to Ilitch and were preserved, thanks to Chuck Forbes. I had heard he also wanted to demolish what is now Cheli's Chili Bar for a 'decorative sidewalk' but a judge ruled that Wayne County cannot take it via eminent domain.

[Gistok]

Emu_steve.... Ilitch paid the DTE bill. Otherwise the place would have gone dark, and the remaining Masonic lodges would have left for the burbs.

Zads07... Cheli's Chili is the Women's Exchange Building... where Edsel Ford first met Eleanor Clay... and later begat the Fords of today. The Ilitch's were mad that they didn't get their decorative sidewalk, and showed their vindictiveness by not allowing any parking space arrangements with any prospective purchasers/leaseholders of the building. No parking spaces no businesses... until Chris Chelios came along [[still a Red Wing) and was able to deal with the Ilitch's.

p69rrh51.... the SW side of the United Artists Theatre had the facade come crumbling down back in the 1980s [[before Ilitch ownership)... and that stretch of Clifford was closed for at least a year. The Ilitch's biggest crime in that building was not to secure it from scavengers... and all but 1 of the Indian maiden busts lining the theatre lobby and auditorium were ripped out under the Ilitch stewardship by scavengers.... as well as the extensive sidewall plaster damage due to not fixing a leaking roof. Now the roof is fixed... but possibly too late.

EastsideAl... yup... when the Ilitch's bought the Fine Arts Building and Adams auditorium, it was still a working theatre. But by not repairing or doing anything to the roof, there was 2 inches of mold on all the auditorium seats, and the roof leaked water to ruin most of the surviving plaster. The Fine Arts Building [[the lobby part of the Adams) was wood framed, and eventually had structural collapse, which required demolition [[but the Detroit Historic Commission demanded the facade be saved... for 6 years now with nothing planned).

Also to add to the list... lets not forget the Vermont Hotel [[razed), Chin Tiki [[razed) and a nicely restored 3 story building along Grand River Ave. [[razed)... all for expanding the sea of parking.

[Scottathew]

On the bright side Little Caesars headquarters is still... a surface parking lot...

[Detroit]

On the bright side Little Caesars headquarters is still... a surface parking lot...

The new GRC had to have some redesigning as it was deemed too small and I also heard that there were permitting issues. On a positive note, the old apartment building behind the new HQ is not going anywhere. They could have saved themselves the moaning and groaning of people like you had they said it will take a while much like Ford did with the release of the announcement of the new HQ canpus, but, oh well.. There should be shovels in the ground soon.

Also, Little Caesar's has rented a few floors of the Palms building as overflow.

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it on here or not, but they are starting site prep for the new parking structure located between St. John's and the Tigers garage. Hopefully that will go up quickly and they can start on the apartment buildings replacing lots 1 and 2 in front of CoPa.

And as for peoples comments on the Ilitch's using DDA money to tear down buildings why the hell does everyone hate the Ilitches for that?? Blame the damn DDA for making the money available to them. Would you spend your own money [[for any purpose) if the government has programs that makes money available to you? It is easy to say you wouldn't but when your actually in that position - you probably would. They didn't become multi-billionaires by just throwing money away regardless if they could afford to or not.

Also, most people don't realize how much good the Ilitch family does and how much money they give away. You just don't hear about it. Sure you hear about the large deals, but the small ones that are done with our all the hoopla add up too. Sure, they make money from sponsoring things such as the hockey, but Mike and Marian Ilitch do care about helping people also.

[Detroit]

There's been so much angry chatter about Ilitch's LCD roof and dopey arena name that I feel one of my biggest and more relevant concerns has been lost in the shuffle - the family's lack of success beyond LC's and spending like drunken sailors on free agents. The fact they are going to have a whole neighborhood to brand when they've had so many flops concerns me quite a bit. Here's some of the ones at the top of my mind, please add to the list [[include nasty building deals, neglecting historic structures, etc too!).

Johnny Rockets spot - one of the best location in the city, rent-free, and they can't seem to even stumble into a winner. This is the worst crime of all in context of the question. If they can't make THIS work what makes them think they can handle multiple prime locations?

American Pizza Cafe - perhaps it was before it's time [[in the midwest) but still a flop

Second City - I actually took classes here and the staff and cast was wonderful but the rumor I heard is that this was just a vanity purchase and when the "franchise" license was up for renewal they just let it go. Now there is the often empty City Theater.

Comerica Park - Liquid fireworks?! In a cold midwest city?! The carousel and Ferris Wheel are silly but I can live with them... if the Ferris Wheel riders could actually SEE the game from the top. Knocking down buildings to improve the view of the city. Parking on Woodward? The stadium should butt up to the street, the placement of the parking lot is stupid. The scoreboard was misplaced. Left field walls were too far, players complained and they brought them in, putting the flagpole out of play - eliminating one of the only nods to historic Tiger stadium. If you think the CoPa is a nice modern stadium you need to see a game in another park. Also - worst concessions ever.

Tigers ownership up until 2006 - Dreadful. Even threw Alan Trammel under the bus to manage a shit team. Poor relations with many 1984 players, including Sparky. At least he knew enough to re-hire Ernie Harwell.

The handling of Tiger Stadium - no matter what fate you wanted for the stadium you must agree this was handled poorly [[at best). Sure, the city owned the property but Mike did not help at all.

Motor City Casino [[Marian) - Isn't that a temporary casino location? Weird. Pretty sure the famous Soup Kitchen and less famous but very cool Sardine Bar were a couple of the Detroit staples sacrificed for a move that never came. Also - the signage is tacky as hell.

What else do you have, Detroit Yes?

The Johnny Rockets site is empty for a reason. Just because they have a prime location for something doesn't mean they use it that way. I know it seems strange but it isn't always about putting something somewhere just to make some money. Making money is just not as important to them as it might be if your company had control of the building. I, myself, wish there was a restaurant in there again. I always though the flagship Little Caesars should be in that location with sit down service with an expanded menu. Maybe test different pizzas there you can't get in a traditional location.

As for Motor City - I believe that was made the permanent location before Marian had sole ownership of it so that wouldn't be on her. And to be fair, Greektown never moved either. Only MGM made good on that.

Hot n' Ready was not a flop. It was a HUGE success... If doesn't matter if 99% of the people on this board don't like the pizza, its been super successful. The company has gown exponentially and has been expanded both in the US abroad even while competitors close stores or open far fewer. They hit a home run with it. And you can still order your customized pizza... they still have all the same topping available.

[1953]

I work in philanthropy and don't consider Ilitch/Olympia very charitable compared to their peers in corporate America.

19533

PS - Thanks to the previous commentor who identified all the buildings on my jpeg.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I work in philanthropy and don't consider Ilitch/Olympia very charitable compared to their peers in corporate America.

19533

PS - Thanks to the previous commentor who identified all the buildings on my jpeg.

Just to be clear: not a single person on this board has any idea how much the Ilitches give to charity, either personally or through their businesses. The companies are privately held, so there is no required disclosure. And, with a few notable exceptions [[like the WSU business school), they don't hold a lot of press conferences announcing their charity. 1953, it would be more correct for you to state that you are not aware of significant charitable donations by the Ilitches. Of course, a quick Google search does reveal many millions of dollars in donations in recent years, not counting the WSU donations. Or events they sponsor that raise millions.

I, for one, have never sought credit for any [[modest) money I have donated to anything. I give anonymously in most cases. I also don't claim charitable deductions on my tax returns [[I think it makes it less charitable if it saves you money; I also think the government should not be in the business of deeming our private transactions to be morally worthy of lowering our effective tax rates).

[emu steve]

Sounds like another famous, or infamous, 'Detroit Yes - Ilitch No' hit job threads...

Lot of folks don't like his commercial moves and a lot of people loathe sports, esp. if there is public moneys involved.

Add those two together and one gets threads [[plural) like these...

[erikd]

Sounds like another famous, or infamous, 'Detroit Yes - Ilitch No' hit job threads...

Lot of folks don't like his commercial moves and a lot of people loathe sports, esp. if there is public moneys involved.

Add those two together and one gets threads [[plural) like these...

A hit job? Really?

So we shouldn't say anything when a billionaire is just handed a quarter billion dollars of our tax dollars to build a hockey area, with no guarantee of the promised additional development?

Are we way out of line here?

[erikd]

Count me in among the fans of the Ilitches. Like all big companies, LC has had its ups and downs, but they're a solid, profitable company, with lots of area employees and thousands of mostly first-time small business owners as franchisees. And flop ideas? Remember the Edsel? The McDLT? New Coke? Businesses try new things. Some work, some don't.

On the sports front, the Ilitches have mostly been willing to pony up the money to field good teams [[obviously 1995-2005 was an austerity period for the Tigers). Doesn't always pan out, but that's true of all sports teams. Say what you want about Comerica Park, it is a better [[if less nostalgic) place to watch a ballgame than Tiger Stadium, and it is integrated into downtown. Same will be true of the LC Arena.

As for property, yes he owns a lot of things that have yet to be restored or land yet to be developed. But a lot is now or about to be starting soon. For the first time in his decades downtown, market conditions are starting to warrant doing the work.

Olympia is far from perfect. But they are good corporate citizens. And they have done more for the city than anyone on this website. And they accept the hate and scorn with a smile.

Good corporate citizens? That's debatable...

As for doing more than anyone else on this website, no one else on this website has been handed hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer handouts either. There are a number of people on this site who have renovated Detroit properties and started businesses in the city without multi-million dollar cash handouts from the taxpayers.

I do agree with you that they accept the hate and scorn from us with a smile, as they cash a quarter-billion dollar welfare check from us. If I conned the government into giving me a quarter-billion dollars, I'd smile too.

Never mind that, though. Just keep on thinking that handing out hundreds of millions of our tax dollars to a billionaire, with no strings attached, is clearly the best use of our scarce public funding, and label any citizen who dares to question the financial reality of the arrangement a "hater."

[Enduro]

No, they were more like a fast food restaurant where you could get pizza, salad, subs, etc and actually sit down to eat it on site.

Ah yes, we had one at Warren and Fielding [[Everygreen) that lasted quite a while. We'd go there on break at Kroger. They also served beer [[to an underage but convincing me) - in wax paper cups. Yum!

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Also, most people don't realize how much good the Ilitch family does and how much money they give away. You just don't hear about it. Sure you hear about the large deals, but the small ones that are done with our all the hoopla add up too. Sure, they make money from sponsoring things such as the hockey, but Mike and Marian Ilitch do care about helping people also.

Are you claiming to be privy to information on the immense secret philanthropy of the Ilitch family?