Detroit Tigers --Another Year, More of the Same

**401don** · May-06-16, 08:30 AM

It looks like the Tigers are going to repeat last yr's dismal performance. This year the bullpen is sound and the rotation is lousy. The lineup continues to flounder. The closer, not that he's needed much, has an 87 mile per hour fastball and is Nathan 2.0.

I'm starting to miss the days when you had a rebuilding team with no expectations. You watch youngsters make mistakes but at least they play hard and any day you win is a pleasant surprise. Instead we have a bunch of past their prime overpaid slow players who underperform. They run the bases like they never played little league. They joke in the dugout when they're down 5 runs.

I used to feel sorry for Ilitch not winning a World Series but I'm starting to think he may be the problem. Deciding to way overpay for a guy like Upton at the last moment, just like he did with Fielder, does nothing to develop the team the way a GM would if he knew his payroll going into the offseason. I'm ready for a rebuild but even if Ilitch agreed nobody would take these contracts.

**emu steve** · May-06-16, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

It looks like the Tigers are going to repeat last yr's dismal performance. This year the bullpen is sound and the rotation is lousy. The lineup continues to flounder. The closer, not that he's needed much, has an 87 mile per hour fastball and is Nathan 2.0.

I'm starting to miss the days when you had a rebuilding team with no expectations. You watch youngsters make mistakes but at least they play hard and any day you win is a pleasant surprise. Instead we have a bunch of past their prime overpaid slow players who underperform. They run the bases like they never played little league. They joke in the dugout when they're down 5 runs.

I used to feel sorry for Ilitch not winning a World Series but I'm starting to think he may be the problem. Deciding to way overpay for a guy like Upton at the last moment, just like he did with Fielder, does nothing to develop the team the way a GM would if he knew his payroll going into the offseason. I'm ready for a rebuild but even if Ilitch agreed nobody would take these contracts.

This team will live and die by its starting pitching.

Tell me how many wins JV, Sanchez, Greene, etc. will have on July 4 and I'll tell you if we are repeating last year's season.

Zimmerman can only pitch every 5th day so it is really in JV and Sanchez's hands.

Hopefully they pitch like #2 and 3 pitchers...

**Ray1936** · May-06-16, 11:06 AM

Looks like a .500 year to me. And that might be wishful thinking. I paid Cox cable here in Las Vegas $175 for the baseball package but the last three games in Cleveland had me wishing I kept the cash. Well, I can always watch the Cubbies, anyway.

**softailrider** · May-06-16, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

It looks like the Tigers are going to repeat last yr's dismal performance. This year the bullpen is sound and the rotation is lousy. The lineup continues to flounder. The closer, not that he's needed much, has an 87 mile per hour fastball and is Nathan 2.0.

I'm starting to miss the days when you had a rebuilding team with no expectations. You watch youngsters make mistakes but at least they play hard and any day you win is a pleasant surprise. Instead we have a bunch of past their prime overpaid slow players who underperform. They run the bases like they never played little league. They joke in the dugout when they're down 5 runs.

I used to feel sorry for Ilitch not winning a World Series but I'm starting to think he may be the problem. Deciding to way overpay for a guy like Upton at the last moment, just like he did with Fielder, does nothing to develop the team the way a GM would if he knew his payroll going into the offseason. I'm ready for a rebuild but even if Ilitch agreed nobody would take these contracts.

I remember them going to the World Series with Fielder. It wasn't a pretty series but they got there.

**EastsideAl** · May-06-16, 06:00 PM

The Upton deal seems particularly bad to me. Like some sort of desperation, wishful thinking kind of move. Spending themselves up to the cap for someone who's been, at best, a streaky mid-level all-star with high strikeout numbers throughout his career.

**Hamtragedy** · May-07-16, 11:06 AM

If Wally Joyner is saying he doesn't know what to do about the dead bats, that should be the number one reason to can him. And if Brad can't figure that out, then can him too. I hope he's out by June.

**Oddz313** · May-07-16, 12:20 PM

Upton is extremely streaky, always been like that. Just a cpl weekends ago he was a world beater

**401don** · May-07-16, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Oddz313

Upton is extremely streaky, always been like that. Just a cpl weekends ago he was a world beater

Upton is a good everyday outfielder. Average defensively, with some power. I have to keep reminding myself that its not his fault the Tigers are paying him like he's one of the 5 best in the league. It does drive me nuts though when broadcasters keep saying he has tremendous power. I would rather have a guy that hit 30 home runs that just cleared the fence than a guy that swings so hard he hits 15 of them 400 feet plus with a ton of strikeouts.

**Ray1936** · May-07-16, 12:47 PM

Miggie doesn't look so hot this year so far either. Could he be over the hill already? Sigh.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · May-08-16, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

Upton is a good everyday outfielder. Average defensively, with some power. I have to keep reminding myself that its not his fault the Tigers are paying him like he's one of the 5 best in the league. It does drive me nuts though when broadcasters keep saying he has tremendous power. I would rather have a guy that hit 30 home runs that just cleared the fence than a guy that swings so hard he hits 15 of them 400 feet plus with a ton of strikeouts.

Upton is the closest thing to a "hot and cold" player you can find. He can start out in a slump for a month or two, then catch fire and carry a team, 2 months later. You would think the Tigers, would have did their homework on him, before signing him to that huge deal. He strikes out way too much. And signing Mike Pelfrey was also a waste. Why do you think the Twins let him walk? He hasn't won a start since last August. They finally fix the bullpen somewhat, now the starters are the problem. Sanchez and JV look like they're done, Zimmerman who suffered his 1st loss yesterday, has been their best pitcher. and Miggy and JD aren't hitting yet. One bright spot has been Castellanos, who looks like he might have a career year. They're window of opportunity has been officially slammed shut.

**softailrider** · May-08-16, 07:37 AM

I think it's too early to write them off but it's disturbing that their big guns are silent at this point and the lack of key hits is too reminiscent of last year.

**Lowell** · May-08-16, 09:57 AM

Too early to tell but I agree it is disquieting. So far I see a streaky team, world beaters for a few days then it looks like they can't hit a basketball and everything they throw is a basketball.

They also kind of reflect America. Other than Zimmerman and Victor, the uber Rich aren't paying their fair share.

They better have it rolling by June or it could be #AusmusTGO

**Cincinnati_Kid** · May-08-16, 10:28 AM

Softailrider and Lowell, you're correct, it is early, and maybe they get on track by June. I just hope they at least show some fight and compete, and not shrug off every loss like "there's always tomorrow" which is the reaction I've been seeing. Laughing and joking during and after a loss, doesn't cut it for me.

**401don** · May-08-16, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Softailrider and Lowell, you're correct, it is early, and maybe they get on track by June. I just hope they at least show some fight and compete, and not shrug off every loss like "there's always tomorrow" which is the reaction I've been seeing. Laughing and joking during and after a loss, doesn't cut it for me.

Totally agree with your posts. Granted I watch the Tigers more than others, but I just don't see the joking in the dugout by other teams during losses. Fans are taking notice. It's irritating when you feel you care more than the players. The hitting will come around although it will always be difficult to scratch out close games with the lack of speed. I agree with you that Verlander and Sanchez are done as front-line starters. They are, at best, .500 pitchers. That doesn't add up to a winning season.

**Lowell** · May-08-16, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Laughing and joking during and after a loss, doesn't cut it for me.

Reminds me of high school football days. Our team had gone 0-8 the previous year and had a new coach. We lost our first road game and on the way home on the bus we were goofing off and laughing about. The coach stopped the bus and laid into us. "What are you so happy about? Did you win something?" Future road loss rides were silent, and fewer, as we improved to 4-4. There's a thin line between being serious and keeping loose. I hope our Tigers can find that balance.

**401don** · May-08-16, 03:44 PM

Did I say this year the bullpen is sound and the rotation is lousy? Oops, my mistake.

**compn** · May-09-16, 07:24 AM

any season the tigers lose against the indians means no winning the world series. yeah, they dont have to win against cleveland because its cleveland. but its that kind of attitude that means no win for the tigers.

**DeLemur** · May-09-16, 08:30 AM

We're only 18% into this season. Lots of baseball left to play. Yes, you make good points. But with regards to the fans. I always love Comerica's atmosphere and I think Tigers fans are knowledgeable about the game. But, also they get negative way to quick. The level of booing yesterday was too severe. I've seen people boo Miggy in his triple crown season and the year before. The atmosphere at game 4 against the Orioles in the playoffs was terrible, people partying and not even supporting the Tigers or believing they can win. Don't want to hijack a full team talk, but the fans for their positives, can have a severe negativity element and it seemed that way yesterday.

**softailrider** · May-10-16, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

Did I say this year the bullpen is sound and the rotation is lousy? Oops, my mistake.

That Lowe guy sure had a bad couple days.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · May-10-16, 09:08 AM

401Don, I think you make good points about the team, but I think you're a little overly negative. Not counting last year, the Tigers have had quite a lot of success for the last decade. I do fully agree that the aging, expensive players are the biggest structural problem for the franchise. The front office needs to seriously address that or be replaced. Still, in the end, I love both the Tigers and baseball. Frustrated as I was, I still enjoyed the Tigers in the awful period before 2006.

**401don** · May-10-16, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

401Don, I think you make good points about the team, but I think you're a little overly negative. Not counting last year, the Tigers have had quite a lot of success for the last decade. I do fully agree that the aging, expensive players are the biggest structural problem for the franchise. The front office needs to seriously address that or be replaced. Still, in the end, I love both the Tigers and baseball. Frustrated as I was, I still enjoyed the Tigers in the awful period before 2006.

You are correct. I am feeling very negative about the team right now. Never dreamed they would be 8 games out a little over a month into the season. It's frustrating when the talent doesn't come close to its norms. Last night Cabrera makes a late slide into 2nd base for no reason, almost injuring himself. Instead of removing him for a pinch runner Ausmus leaves him in. He hesitates going to 3rd on a wild pitch and is out. Would have had the winning run on 3rd with nobody out. Just can't keep watching this stuff over and over.

**sirrealone** · May-10-16, 11:52 AM

I think a lot of dumb moves have happened that go back to Illitch.

1) Giving extensions to Cabrera and Verlander that were way too early. Both of them received extensions with over two years remaining, and now neither of them is playing to those contracts. Now I'm not saying that they shouldn't have been re-signed, but they both got hurt in the window of what would have been their original deal, so you'd think that if Illitch had waited, the extensions would have been for less years and less money. Now they just look like they're carrying a lot of dead weight.

2) I never got the whole thing about Scherzer. So what, he didn't take your $144 million deal? Turns out it was a pretty smart move on his part as he got, what, the same deal plus what amounts to an extra $66 million for one extra year? Scherzer turning down the extension was business. Illitch not even allowing an offer during his walk year was personal, and plain stupid.

3) The whole idea of building a roster with a bunch of $20m guys that then have a big fall off has Illitch stamped all over it. The whole premise goes back to the Red Wings when he was able to open his pocketbook and get those missing pieces to get the run of Stanley Cups. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way in baseball. The Giants, Royals and other teams that have won lately show that the Tigers model doesn't work, yet we keep doubling down again and again. Even the Yankees finally realized it doesn't work and have backed off, but here we have roughly 2/3 the payroll going to roughly 20% of the roster. But it'll start working any day now, I'm sure.....

4) I still hold a grudge about Dombrowski getting canned via a phone call and having to pull his kid off the field in embarrassment was one of the most shameful things I've seen. I agreed that it was time for Dombrowski to go, but when Illitch made it happen like that, I made up my mind that I hoped he wouldn't get his championship.

**401don** · May-26-16, 04:07 PM

Okay, things are looking up after winning 8 of 10 and you hate to revel in other's misery but - Alex Gordon and Mike Moustakas collided on a little pop up a couple of days ago. Gordon is on the DL with a broken wrist and Moustakas is out for the season with a torn ACL. Until now, I liked our chances to overtake Cleveland and Chicago much better than KC.

**emu steve** · May-26-16, 08:34 PM

This season is getting to be the classic glass half full/half empty Rorschach test.

Tigers trade for another SP. James Shields? And a reliever? and the AL Central is wide open.

Zimmerman, a #1, JV, a #2, Shields a #3, Sanchez, a #4, Zulmer, #5 [[with a very high ceiling).

Greene and Mike P. are also available for the back end of the rotation.

I have no problems with the position players as a group.

**softailrider** · May-27-16, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

This season is getting to be the classic glass half full/half empty Rorschach test.

Tigers trade for another SP. James Shields? And a reliever? and the AL Central is wide open.

Zimmerman, a #1, JV, a #2, Shields a #3, Sanchez, a #4, Zulmer, #5 [[with a very high ceiling).

Greene and Mike P. are also available for the back end of the rotation.

I have no problems with the position players as a group.

What your saying is the team lost looks good on paper, I agree with that. I've felt the same way since March. Don't know what that translates to, hopefully that means they can compete up until the end.