Detroit Tigers --Another Year, More of the Same

**401don** · August-18-16, 03:00 PM

4 straight games with one run - ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!

**emu steve** · August-18-16, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

4 straight games with one run - ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!

True, but the bullpen is driving me to drink...

We are getting some nice starts from the kids.

**Ray1936** · August-18-16, 04:40 PM

That 8-game win streak got me a little hyped up, but then.......sigh. Same old, same old.

**401don** · August-18-16, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

True, but the bullpen is driving me to drink... We are getting some nice starts from the kids.

The only thing giving me hope for the future is the way the 3 kids are pitching. Fulmer can be an ace. Norris and Boyd are probably only no. 4 & 5 guys but there's nothing wrong with having solid 4 & 5's. Boyd is on a good streak but he seems a little lucky. He hangs a lot of breaking balls that for some reason good hitters are missing. The Tigers can't have Miggy, VMart, JD and Castellanos hitting in order. It's the same problem they had with Fielder on the team. They need to move VMart and Castellanos if possible and try to get more athletic. Sign JD long-term. Let Miggy DH half the time next yr. to keep him healthy. Maybe Dombrowski would bite on the 2 yrs. of VMart if Big Poppy actually retires.

**emu steve** · August-18-16, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

The only thing giving me hope for the future is the way the 3 kids are pitching. Fulmer can be an ace. Norris and Boyd are probably only no. 4 & 5 guys but there's nothing wrong with having solid 4 & 5's. Boyd is on a good streak but he seems a little lucky. He hangs a lot of breaking balls that for some reason good hitters are missing. The Tigers can't have Miggy, VMart, JD and Castellanos hitting in order. It's the same problem they had with Fielder on the team. They need to move VMart and Castellanos if possible and try to get more athletic. Sign JD long-term. Let Miggy DH half the time next yr. to keep him healthy. Maybe Dombrowski would bite on the 2 yrs. of VMart if Big Poppy actually retires.

You have made the 'blue sky' case for Tigers starting pitchers: JV, Fulmer, Zimmerman [[when healthy), Norris and Boyd.

That is a good to very good starting rotation, 1 - 5, balanced with experience [[JB and Zimm) and a couple left handers.

As for as hitting: injuries become a very big part of any team's lineup, esp. this part of the season. We just got clobbered, big time, now.

At the beginning of the week we were without FOUR starting position players including Miggy, Izzy, Cameron and Nick. Without them we are 1/2 MLB baseball team; 1/2 MiLB team [[think Toledo) in the IF and OF.

We desperately need at least Cameron and Izzy back soon. We'll have to wait for Nick and Zimm.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · August-18-16, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

The only thing giving me hope for the future is the way the 3 kids are pitching. Fulmer can be an ace. Norris and Boyd are probably only no. 4 & 5 guys but there's nothing wrong with having solid 4 & 5's. Boyd is on a good streak but he seems a little lucky. He hangs a lot of breaking balls that for some reason good hitters are missing. The Tigers can't have Miggy, VMart, JD and Castellanos hitting in order. It's the same problem they had with Fielder on the team. They need to move VMart and Castellanos if possible and try to get more athletic. Sign JD long-term. Let Miggy DH half the time next yr. to keep him healthy. Maybe Dombrowski would bite on the 2 yrs. of VMart if Big Poppy actually retires.

The guy they need to get rid of is Upton. Highly unlikely as anyone in their right mind, is not going to take on that albatross of a contract, unless they're drunk or high. He's been abominable this year.

**emu steve** · August-19-16, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

The guy they need to get rid of is Upton. Highly unlikely as anyone in their right mind, is not going to take on that albatross of a contract, unless they're drunk or high. He's been abominable this year.

I know J Up is paid big bucks to hit, but other than hitting he has been solid.

I like his defense [[plays LF smart). Seems like a really good guy. Smart player.

In a season long slump at the bat...

Breaks out next season?

**401don** · August-19-16, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

I know J Up is paid big bucks to hit, but other than hitting he has been solid.

I like his defense [[plays LF smart). Seems like a really good guy. Smart player.

In a season long slump at the bat...

Breaks out next season?

I will assume you were half asleep when posting this but Upton's defense is below average. He takes poor routes, misjudges balls near the wall, has a below average arm and his speed has declined. Maybe you've just been comparing him to guys like Aviles.
Don't take my word for it. Just google it.

This article discussing his decline is 2 years old:

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...KXrArP770yPZog

**Cincinnati_Kid** · August-21-16, 11:02 AM

As Satchel Paige once said, "Don't look back, something might be gaining on you" That something is Kansas City.

**401don** · August-21-16, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

As Satchel Paige once said, "Don't look back, something might be gaining on you" That something is Kansas City.

Wait another week when we're completely out of the wild card race and they start shutting down Fulmer and Boyd.

**emu steve** · August-21-16, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

Wait another week when we're completely out of the wild card race and they start shutting down Fulmer and Boyd.

Happy to see Cameron back today.

We need to continue to get healthy. When we have the full roster of position players we hit well. When we have a Toledo lineup, we do not.

I'm not tossing in the towel until the end of the month if we aren't able to take advantage of a favorable schedule during the rest of the month.

The next nine games [[after today) are against teams with losing records, six of which are at home.

Last night's near HR by J Up and then loss was tough. Very tough...

**Cincinnati_Kid** · August-21-16, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Happy to see Cameron back today.

We need to continue to get healthy. When we have the full roster of position players we hit well. When we have a Toledo lineup, we do not.

I'm not tossing in the towel until the end of the month if we aren't able to take advantage of a favorable schedule during the rest of the month.

The next nine games [[after today) are against teams with losing records, six of which are at home.

Last night's near HR by J Up and then loss was tough. Very tough...

Well....he made up for it today with 2 3 run homers. This is the J-Up I was expecting to see when we signed him. Maybe... he's finally turning the corner. JD is on fire though, he's been flat out raking since he returned.

**softailrider** · August-21-16, 09:27 PM

Their hanging in there keeping it interesting. Only 2.5 back for the last wild card spot. Third week in August and they sure aren't out of it. If you told me in April this was the way it was going to go I would have taken it.

**emu steve** · August-21-16, 09:39 PM

My take on these Tigers:

[[when) very healthy = very good.

not very healthy = not very good.

This team has to be healthy to be good. When the position players are all healthy they can really hit the ball.

When Brad bats Kinsler, Maybin, Miggy, V-Mart, J.D., Nick, J. Up, etc. other teams can struggle facing them...

**Ray1936** · August-22-16, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

My take on these Tigers:

[[when) very healthy = very good.

not very healthy = not very good.

This team has to be healthy to be good.

What you're saying, of course, is that the team lacks depth. Aye, there's the rub.

**emu steve** · August-22-16, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

What you're saying, of course, is that the team lacks depth. Aye, there's the rub.

Yes, yes, yes...

That is why I was glad to get Aybar.

I wish we'd gone for another OF too.

I keep my eyes out if some cellar dweller might be selling. E.g., there apparently was a fight between two Oakland A's.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · August-22-16, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Yes, yes, yes...

That is why I was glad to get Aybar.

I wish we'd gone for another OF too.

I keep my eyes out if some cellar dweller might be selling. E.g., there apparently was a fight between two Oakland A's.

Yeah, between Danny Valencia and Billy Butler, now get this, over a pair of baseball shoes.

**emu steve** · August-27-16, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

It looks like the Tigers are going to repeat last yr's dismal performance. This year the bullpen is sound and the rotation is lousy. The lineup continues to flounder. The closer, not that he's needed much, has an 87 mile per hour fastball and is Nathan 2.0.

I'm starting to miss the days when you had a rebuilding team with no expectations. You watch youngsters make mistakes but at least they play hard and any day you win is a pleasant surprise. Instead we have a bunch of past their prime overpaid slow players who underperform. They run the bases like they never played little league. They joke in the dugout when they're down 5 runs.

I used to feel sorry for Ilitch not winning a World Series but I'm starting to think he may be the problem. Deciding to way overpay for a guy like Upton at the last moment, just like he did with Fielder, does nothing to develop the team the way a GM would if he knew his payroll going into the offseason. I'm ready for a rebuild but even if Ilitch agreed nobody would take these contracts.

Wow, isn't it easy for sports to make fans 'false prophets?'

There is very little about this season which arguably makes sense. I would like to quote a data statement from one of today's papers [[this is from an email I sent a friend):

"... Tigers starters have a 3.35 ERA since the All-Star break, second in the AL, behind only the Tampa Bay Rays [[2.91)."

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/spo...tion/89437074/

And even that is WITHOUT Zimmerman. That ERA is because of Verlander and rookies like Fulmer, Boyd and Norris. Amazing!!

I would have thought second [[WORST)... with 3 rookies pitching.

And, if the [[starting) pitching is very good, the Tigers must be in contention for a WC:

http://www.espn.com/mlb/standings/_/view/wild-card

#SeptemberWillBeFun in the AL!!!

**softailrider** · August-27-16, 08:58 AM

It's all there for them, the schedule favors the Tigers the remainder of the year. They're pitching really good - time for Miggy, Upton and Vmart to carry this team.

**emu steve** · August-27-16, 06:05 PM

I should mention that in 2012 a friend on another forum thought that the Tigers should blow up their old, expensive team and rebuild...

Why: their record was below .500 in June despite an all-star roster [[at least on paper).

I argued against that strategy. The season is 162 games!!

Anyway, the Tigers made it to the World Series.

I don't think this year's team is as good, but it is good enough to compete for the playoffs and that is all one can ask.

Whatever happens in October happens. No guarantees for any team, including the Cubbies. Last year teams with almost 100 wins got bounced early.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · August-28-16, 04:55 AM

^^ There is truth to your statement, nothing is guaranteed. But the Cubs roster is much better this year than last. We'll see... Fulmer didn't pitch well in a loss tonight. His control was off the strike zone most of the game, the HP ump didn't do him any favors either, then he ejects 4 people, for arguing balls and strikes. Never seen a hitting coach get tossed. Oh well...need to bounce back, everyone lost except Chicago, they could have picked up a game on the Indians and KC.

**softailrider** · August-28-16, 09:16 PM

Continues to be a interesting and fun season. They've been good, they've been bad, they've been terrible, they've been great. Still totally in it. The power outages are what just don't make sense to me - that line up is loaded. On paper they should be good next year too.

**401don** · August-29-16, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Continues to be a interesting and fun season. They've been good, they've been bad, they've been terrible, they've been great. Still totally in it. The power outages are what just don't make sense to me - that line up is loaded. On paper they should be good next year too.

For the last couple of years it looked like after the steroid era ended small ball was making a comeback. This year the entire league appears to be returning to home run or strikeout baseball. When I watch all the home runs in Baltimore, Chicago, etc. I think the dimensions at Comerica Park really do hurt the Tigers ability to win games with home runs.

**emu steve** · August-29-16, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

For the last couple of years it looked like after the steroid era ended small ball was making a comeback. This year the entire league appears to be returning to home run or strikeout baseball. When I watch all the home runs in Baltimore, Chicago, etc. I think the dimensions at Comerica Park really do hurt the Tigers ability to win games with home runs.

Agree!!!

The Tigers' lineup as it is on the field for 2016 is designed for a home run friendly park.

And think of Comerica and the type of hitter who would do best:

A player with gap power and very good speed.

Of course that is not the terms I'd use to describe V-Mart and Miggy [[Okay, half true).

**401don** · August-31-16, 03:15 PM

Great pitching duel today. Verlander makes 2 bad pitches and it costs him a win. Let's not get crazy about Jones after 2 games, as everyone tends to do when a rookie gets off to a fast start, but there are definitely things to like about his game: Number 1 - he can actually run! Number 2 - he can play multiple key positions. Number 3 - he has a compact swing and will likely be the type of gap hitter that suits Comerica Park. Big series coming up in KC this weekend.